Fezziwig
SF bay
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LindsayRichards wrote:The UK installed the largest wind farm in the world in the North Sea where the wind blow more that almost anywhere else in the world. They are already starting to fail on the concrete bases and the government has decided not to repair them. As they fail, they will be sold for scrap. Had all of this money been spent on research, then maybe we would be further along in our search for cheap dependable energy. A simple question for those who have not taken the time to research wind and solar is, "If these make such great economic sense and are such a great deal, how come they are not on every roof top?"
Where do you get this information? You seem to make a lot of claims but never give citations.
I posted a message a couple weeks ago about how Germany had produced half their electric power for a whole weekend from windpower, and that windpower was flourishing in Germany.
I am in favor of alternative energy for a very selfish reason: it will relieve some of the upward pressure on petrol prices for my RV fuel. As a bonus, it will reduce the despoilment of the beautiful American countryside and the air we breath, which I believe any loyal American should cherish.
* This post was
edited 08/11/12 03:28pm by an administrator/moderator *
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LindsayRichards
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Quote:Where do you get this information?
This information is readily available on the internet and already know by anybody who keeps up with alternative energy news. You will not see it on the environmentalist sites you seem to quote. Germany for instance is backing away from alternative energy as it is way to expensive. I too am a big fan of alternative energy. I want the money to be spent on research rather than being spent of demonstration project to political cronies that will never come close to being competitive. We have an fossil fuel energy revolution going on in the country right now and the politicians are doing everything possible to squash it. The notion that energy production ruins the American landscape is just wrong. Fracing and horizontal drilling are changing the whole concept of domestic energy.
What types of alternative energy do you personally have and what % of your monthly energy do they provide?
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Bumpyroad
Virginia
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camperdave wrote:Fezziwig wrote:
But the moderator deleted my message without explanation. I concluded that the moderator is opposed to alternative energy.
I've had this experience here too. I've concluded that this is not the proper forum for this kind of discussion. 
I had mine deleted when I just asked how much coal was burned to keep the car charged up. 
bumpy
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cekkk
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I won't fault the moderator(s). If we get too nasty or political, they should cut us off. I started to complain earlier today as a political reference was made and not deleted, but, hey, I've gone political myself. It's a political subject. So let's get away with what we can get away with. Otherwise, the endless posting of numbers today and more tomorrow, without a bit of spice, would be boring and, IMHO, a silly waste of time both posting and reading. 
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tomman58
Southeast Michigan
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Bumpyroad wrote:tomman58 wrote:
Wrong again! My 2yr lease on the Volt is 177 a month with 2500 down stroke. Figuring the difference in the cost of our old car (20mpg) subtract that from the lease and it costs me $900.00 a year to own. go re-figure!
Don't worry about wind as those farms are growing in the US tremendously. The "grids" are being improved to take care of the "new" energy coming on them. The worst thing about the subsidy was Texas using it to buy windmills from China, real American that!.
With all the refinery fires this week we should see much higher gas prices for a while.
when you turn in your leased vehicle, if it is not worth what they anticipated it would be when you got your lease, will you not owe more money? I thought that was how leases work. When these vehicles are getting a few years on them and a $10,000 battery bill is on the horizon, what will the hulk be worth? A while back the paper had a comparison of cost of a gas vs hybrid car, I think it was a honda civic or some such, and it took 7-10 years for the hybrid to break even.
bumpy
You are missing the concept of a lease! I will owe nothing and own nothing at the end of the lease! I would've bought the car but one doesn't know (as you said) what the resale is going to be as there is no track record. as for battery replacement after about 10 years. There is a plan for the utilities to purchase the batteries for about 40% of the replacement costs, this we will have to see how it plays out also.
I just filled up my Chevy Dmax cost over 50 bucks egh.
I do like the idea of just plugging in for as much as we drive in a day.
Oh the other thing, my nephew a very intelligent EE and working on new and improved batteries has said that the electrics are here to stay and the new batteries are very good. In 2 years I will turn in this car and hopefully a new and improved one will be waiting.
Of course the same holds true with my Diesel I will be wanting a new one in 2 years and I really hope GM has something good that gets better millage and is as great as the present Dmax!
Heck in 2 years the price of gas could be $4.50.
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It must be time to go, the suns out and I've got a full tank of diesel!
Lifes short enough without bitch'n about it!
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Dick A
Spokane
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Generally the traditional financial wisdom of leasing a vehicle makes about as much sense as putting financial resources into many of the current green projects. If such a transaction is being subsidized by a third party then the math is that much worse.
Having sold products for over forty-five years, I learned at a young age if a product could not be sold for a profit on the merits of its intrinsic utility value then I should replace that product with something different offering. It was MY money on the line - not my fellow taxpayers.
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Bumpyroad
Virginia
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tomman58 wrote:
You are missing the concept of a lease! I will owe nothing and own nothing at the end of the lease! .
I am missing nothing. I pointed out what I thought I had read years ago about leasing a vehicle. they price it based upon what they anticipate it getting on the market when it is turned in. If it is NOT worth that much, don't you owe more money?
bumpy
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LindsayRichards
Tavares, FL
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Quote:There is a plan for the utilities to purchase the batteries for about 40% of the replacement costs,
Now it is the other ratepayers of the utility that suffer the loss instead of the taxpayers. Who said there was no such thing as a free lunch? Who will pay next, the tooth fairy?
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tomman58
Southeast Michigan
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LindsayRichards wrote:Quote:There is a plan for the utilities to purchase the batteries for about 40% of the replacement costs,
Now it is the other ratepayers of the utility that suffer the loss instead of the taxpayers. Who said there was no such thing as a free lunch? Who will pay next, the tooth fairy?
No, it is a bargain for the utilities because they get a battery that still maintains a 60% charge at a very discounted price , it is a win win for everyone. The batteries will help to enlarge the capacity of solar farms dramatically.
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tomman58
Southeast Michigan
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Dick A wrote:Generally the traditional financial wisdom of leasing a vehicle makes about as much sense as putting financial resources into many of the current green projects. If such a transaction is being subsidized by a third party then the math is that much worse.
Having sold products for over forty-five years, I learned at a young age if a product could not be sold for a profit on the merits of its intrinsic utility value then I should replace that product with something different offering. It was MY money on the line - not my fellow taxpayers.
Dick no one is subsidizing anything. The only deal from the gov is $7500 to the buyer not to the leaser or GM.
I have never leased before but this was a good deal, I was going to buy. In 2 years this car will cost me $6796 (this is roughly what the depreciation of a 45K car would be driving out of a dealership). If you subtract my estimated (by Edison and Chevy) saving by going electric, the final cost to me is about 1800 for 2 years or $900 a year.
I don't know what the resale would be but I know that if I wanted to buy the car after the lease they want 38K, way over what I would pay secondly in 2 yrs I'll know if this tech will be a plus or minus to our lifestlye without any real dollar burdon on me. This is a good thing.
That's my story and I'm stick'n to it LOL
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