monkey44
Cape Cod, MA
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I've been chatting with Josh about his water seam/seal problem, and it makes me wonder ... ?
WATER intrusion is ALWAYS a problem with RV's - it's probably the most talked about repair subject on the forum ... SO why is it the problem that it is?
I know we, as builders, have a similar situation (although not exactly, due to RV movement and air flow) but when we build and roof, seam, and seal around penetrations (A/C, plumbing, electrical) we always have a 'right way' to do it, and it works. It's the nature of building and WIND and RAIN. So, I'm always at a loss when I look at these RV water penetration issues (after the fact) and can see how and why the problem occurs.
It will always puzzle me that these fix-its are relatively simple in a shop especially once you get it apart (which you should actually never have to do). The damage repair is not so simple always, but the fix-it itself would and should be simple generally, but it's made way more complex and difficult because mfgr creates a poor design to begin with. AND, fixing a design mistake after it's built is ALWAYS more trouble than designing it right to begin with, BEFORE production ... am I making sense here?
WHY is it the mfgrs cannot see these design flaws? We wonder if the damage comes AFTER warrantee period, so repair of these issues is not a cost factor to mfgrs? But it seems reputation for long-lasting product would factor in ... hmmmmmmmmmm
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downtheroad
Puget Sound
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Houses are for the most part static.
On the other hand our RVs bounce down the highways, byways, and back roads in all kinds of conditions - most often at high speeds. Herein lies the problem with roofs and seams and thus leaks.
Certainly in some cases quality design and construction play a part. Also manufactures realize that most folks don't keep their RVs for long before they trade or upgrade or simply sell and get out.
I guess we have been lucky. We have had 4 different trailers over the years and yet to have a leak.
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lzasitko
Regina, SK Canada
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Trailers and mh and 5ths are subject to a lot more twisting or racking motions that a stick framed house will never see which is probably the cause of most leaks. Then you have the transitions from roof to front and end caps and roof to sidewalls, doors etc. It would be nice if they they could come up with a better transition. On our MH we have a fiberglass roof and fiberglass front and rear end caps and the transition from one to the other is where I have had problems. Eternabond helps as does redoing the butyl and in my case some longer screws as some of the originals were not really long enough and some pulled out where they were barely into the framing.
The only way I can see having fewer problems is better roof framing (not 2x2) and more slope. Better yet would be one piece fiberglass shells where the only areas to seal would be the vents etc. There are some like this now (Boler) and there is even an Aussie MH that is a single piece shell.
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monkey44
Cape Cod, MA
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Okay - I agree, different than a house - which I noted, wind movement on the road ... house don't do that.
But what I'm talking about here is the design that allows the water to pool and sink directly into a seam. The mfgr butts roof to nose, and the nose is higher, and over the top of the roof seam - THEN, you have a dead area that will absolutely leak as soon as it twists a couple times on th road and breaks the seal ... water has no where to go, no where to run off. SO, the puddle sits until it leaks inside or evaporates. That kind of connection/transition should not take place -- there are ways to do that where the water is diverted so it doesn't pool behind a dam that sucks it into the seam as soon as the seam fails - and they all fail. BUT, if that seam had a lip-connector sealed, with a run-off port in it - that face seam would never leak in a million years - even in high winds and pouring rain - and it a very simple lapping-seam to build and install - and it's FOREVER ... no leak.
An RV should never have a 'bump' on it's roof anywhere one compoment meets another - and never in a place where two seams meet - the seams should always pass smooth over one another, and shingle/layer toward the water access direction -- it's a very simple process in the factory, and can't cost any more than the junk they install now to 'attempt' to prevent this, that doesn't prevent it, and you can see it as soon as you open your eyes ... IF mfgrs built these seams and joints to shed water, instead of puddle it, and then the water would 'run away' with nothing to do at this party.
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kd8wdave
Middletown,OH
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downtheroad wrote:Houses are for the most part static.
On the other hand our RVs bounce down the highways, byways, and back roads in all kinds of conditions - most often at high speeds. Herein lies the problem with roofs and seams and thus leaks.
Certainly in some cases quality design and construction play a part. Also manufactures realize that most folks don't keep their RVs for long before they trade or upgrade or simply sell and get out.
I guess we have been lucky. We have had 4 different trailers over the years and yet to have a leak.
On my unit it was 'factory shoddiness'. There was NO overlap between the rubber roof and the front cap. The mfr and dealers simply tried to cover the problem with caulking over and over again, just 'hiding' the problem !! Happens far more often than it should I am sure. I don't trust mfr or dealers and salesmen mostly lie. We used to have a saying at our workplace "A 1000 attaboys = one aw..s...!!" No one remembers the attaboys, but they sure remember the opposite.
cheers
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beemerphile1
I'm only 54, I'm not a
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I have had four travel trailers starting with a 1968 vintage. The only one that ever leaked is my 2006 trailer with the vinyl roof. The old ones all had aluminum on the roof which then was entirely coated with sealer.
The 2006 now has severe roof damage due to leaking and damaging the particle board underneath. The vinyl (I think it's TPO or something like that) only has self leveling caulk gooped at all the joints. In the construction industry we are taught to NEVER rely on caulk to seal a joint. The RV industry must not have gotten the memo. Joints need to be engineered/designed not to leak and then the caulk is only be an extra measure of protection.
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BigRabbitMan
Dixon, CA
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It is subjects like this that reinforce my keeping my old coach. It's top is one piece fiberglass all the way down to the belt line (the bottom of the stripe in sig pic) the top piece overlaps by two inches the side panels. Only need to ensure the roof penetrations are properly done and sealed. Did have a leak once due to 30 year old marker lights, but that was easily fixed.
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BigRabbitMan
Dixon, CA
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double
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double jj
bc
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Ah yes, leaks
A nasty nightmare for rv owners
You can blame the construction on some of the models, poorly sealed roofs, windows or molding.
The wavy surface of sheetmetal can provide gaps at the doors, windows or moldings if build poorly. Fibreglass walls with the smooth surfaces have less issues.
But the consumer needs to understand, that an rv is higher maintenance than a house.An rv needs a yearly sealant inspection since the uv rays deteriorate the putty and roof seals. Don't rely on caulking to seal your rv since it's the putty that really keeps the water out.
Cracks in the putty and sealants is the first clue.
But I'm sure that I'm only repeating what experienced rv owners already know to well.
Good dealers use a blower that forces air inside the rv wile the tech sprays soap on all the weak spots.If the soaps hits a leaky area ,you will see bubbles. Make sure that the tech does not use to much air pressure, or he will create leaks.
I hope that was helpful.
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beemerphile1
I'm only 54, I'm not a
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double jj wrote: ...the consumer needs to understand, that an rv is higher maintenance than a house.An rv needs a yearly sealant inspection...
Actually I have heard the recommendation as every six months but the problem still is poor design.
My trailer was fine in the fall and had no cracks in the sealant. Around March (four months after winterizing) I found a puddle on the floor and damaged particle board under the roof membrane. With the poor design and lousy materials any leak can do much damage in a very short time.
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