Delaine and Lindy
Linden Tn. (The View) /Gulf Shores, Ala.
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Joined: 02/20/2005
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We have a 2" receiver on our 2010 Mobile Suites and it came from Lippert that way. I was at the Drv factory and seen the naked frame with the rear hitch installed on Line to be built. I have owned a Keystone Cambridge 358 which had a 12" frame and in 2006 Keystone used a 10" frame under the Montana's. I do know that Lippert did have a clause in the warranty about bike racks, don't understand why??? The frame under our Mobile Suites is a 15" frame, I would also recomend you contact Keystone Montana division. Good Luck. GBY...
2006 FreightLiner M2
Trailer Saver Air Ride (TSLB2H)
Pressure Pro System
2008 Chevy Silverado 1500 C/C (Grocery hauler)
2009 Chevy HHR LT 2
2010 Mobile Suites 38 RSSB 3/4
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We are BLESSED!!!!
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ALBE
Kelowna B.C.
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Joined: 08/30/2006
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The welder sent out already, stated that the bike rack was not the cause ,in his opinion.Perhaps a prof inspection should be done and the findings then passed on to keystone and lippert.If IT has been improperly mfg ed someone may step up.
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Vulcaneer
Northern New England
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Joined: 10/17/2007
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skymsshel wrote: Why would a company be so willing to fly someone down for a 3 year old trailer, out of warranty to weld on the frame, if they did not know of a pre-existing issue with their frame?
You have a very good point. And I am sure they are aware there could be a problem. And they wanted to have someone check it out.
But playing the devils advocate, there are many the will weld on a 2" receiver for a bike rack, and then hitch up a 3000 pound boat and trailer with a 200 pound tongue weight. It may be a bike rack to you. But to them it is a TRAILER HITCH. And installed by a non authorized installer. That gives them an out. And realistically, may be understandable...from their point of view. Hopefully Keystone might offer some help.
Did the Lippert welder offer any advice for getting the problem fixed? Might be cheaper to find a good welder to fix it up, rather than go thru the frustrations, disappointment, expense of any legal action. Of which, seems could be a weak argument from the plaintiff side.
Best of luck to you.
2006 F350 V10 4X4 SC SB SRW 4.30 22,500 GCWR
Keystone Sprinter 33'9" 12,500 GVWR
Pullrite Super Glide 18K
Super Duty, Super Cab, SuperGlide
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Flattop
Topeka, KS
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Joined: 01/17/2002
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Nothing you could do expect get a lawyer. Course, you might want to read the really, really fine print of the Lipper Warranty. If it says any altering of the frame voids the warranty, you might want to think twice before getting a lawyer.
Even though it was only a weld to the frame to support a bike rack, you did infact alter the frame. Its probably enough the company doesnt have to worry about you.
Regardless, good luck. Hope you can get it fixed.
Flattop
Marty
2000 F-250 SD,SC,2WD,auto,LB,V-10,3.73
2002 Forest River Wildcat 27RL
1-wife
2-girls (ages 17-13)
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Rbrunson
Tangent, Or.
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Joined: 04/07/2004
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Maybe Lippert is getting tight on their goodwill repairs. I am 6 months out of warrenty and have both rear tires out of alignment. They told me warrenty is for two years period. So I am going to eat the repair bill even thoe this has been out of alignment from day one, but not caught by me till it was too late.
Dodge Quad Cab Cummins turbo diesel 3500 4x4 5-speed. U.S. Gear exhaust brake, 1500w inverter, 115v onboard air compressor.
'07 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 #3424
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Hunter11
Buda, Texas
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Joined: 06/30/2003
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I called Lippert right after we got our new 5th wheel and asked about drilling four holes to mount a reciever hitch on the frame to carry two mountain bikes on a rack. I was told if I did I would void the frame warranty. I asked nicely why drilling four holes in the trailer frame that is heavier than the frame on my truck that as four holes drilled in it for the stock reciever hitch would void the warranty. I even told the guy I was willing to put it in writting all we would put on the hitch was a bike rack and two bikes weighing under 150 lbs. and there was a long pause, then the guy says if you drill holes in the frame it will void the warranty. I said thank you and hung up thinking I have bought our last trailer with a Lippert frame. If drilling four holes in the frame to mount a reciever hitch is going to weaken the frame to the point of failure I do not think much of their frame to begin with. Just my $.02.
His-2005 Dodge 3500 CTD 4X4 LWB SRW QC Auto 3.73, S&B CAI, Quadzilla X2 XZT Box and Commander, MBRP Exhaust
Hers-2006 Dodge 1500 4dr. Hemi
2007 Crossroads Paradise Pointe 34CK
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Mile High
Lone Tree, CO
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Joined: 02/05/2008
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It's nonsense - think of how many holes the RV manufacturer drilled into that frame! I count about 35 including a series of self tappers for the belly, the gas line brackets, and the spare tire.
When the RV manufacturer agrees to these repairs both in and out of warranty, I wonder if they ever get resolve from Lippert or do they get the same attitude and eat the cost. When I saw pics of the frame flex problem units getting fixed at the RV factory - it wasn't Lippert in there welding, it was the RV manufaturer. I think Lippert probably washed thier hands of the whole thing and blamed it on a "spec" or something.
Brad & Dory
2006 Ford F350 4X4 SB CC SRW Powerstroke 6.0
2007 Montana 3400RL 5th Wheel Our Rig - Our Mods
Visit Us, Our previous rig - 2003 2955RL
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Bandaid
Holcomb, New York USA
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Joined: 01/16/2001
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Presently, my trailer is in a repair shop, in Elkhart, having frame and structural repairs done to it. The owner of the shop, who was a former line supervisor for a now out of business trailer manufacturer, told me point blank, "drilling one hole in any part of the frame will void the frame warranty!" Now, my question would be this to Lippert, if I drill one more hole in your frame over and above the hundreds of holes the trailer manufacturer has already drilled through your frame, I'm going to structurally weaken the frame? This is another case of a company benefiting by the lop holes in our existing regulations and laws. However, if someone adds an aftermarket part, such as a receiver hitch, the possibility strongly exists the trailer owner could overload the frame.
A trailer frame is an active lever, with it's fulcrum point at the axles. The more weight that is added behind the axle attachment points and further out on the lever arm, so to speak, such as the bumper, is going to increase the force the lever arm applies to the point of fulcrum! You could in fact cause the frame to sag! One would think the frames of our trailers would have been designed and spec'd. to accept a reasonable amount of add on parts, such as bike racks. Considering some of the design snafu's one finds through out the various floor plans and manufacturing engineering of companies, I guess it would be reasonable to assume the trailers and frames are designed to minimum specifications and we should be wary of how much stuff we hang off the ends of our trailer.
Here's a suggestion. If you have the equipment and a supplier of aluminum tubing, rebuild your bike rack using aluminum tubing. That would reduce the weight to some degree. You could also trade/ sell your bikes and buy a pair of those high dollar light weight bikes like the pro's ride!
Bandaid
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Mile High
Lone Tree, CO
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Joined: 02/05/2008
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Bandaid wrote:Presently, my trailer is in a repair shop, in Elkhart, having frame and structural repairs done to it. The owner of the shop, who was a former line supervisor for a now out of business trailer manufacturer, told me point blank, "drilling one hole in any part of the frame will void the frame warranty!" Now, my question would be this to Lippert, if I drill one more hole in your frame over and above the hundreds of holes the trailer manufacturer has already drilled through your frame, I'm going to structurally weaken the frame? This is another case of a company benefiting by the lop holes in our existing regulations and laws. However, if someone adds an aftermarket part, such as a receiver hitch, the possibility strongly exists the trailer owner could overload the frame.
A trailer frame is an active lever, with it's fulcrum point at the axles. The more weight that is added behind the axle attachment points and further out on the lever arm, so to speak, such as the bumper, is going to increase the force the lever arm applies to the point of fulcrum! You could in fact cause the frame to sag! One would think the frames of our trailers would have been designed and spec'd. to accept a reasonable amount of add on parts, such as bike racks. Considering some of the design snafu's one finds through out the various floor plans and manufacturing engineering of companies, I guess it would be reasonable to assume the trailers and frames are designed to minimum specifications and we should be wary of how much stuff we hang off the ends of our trailer.
Here's a suggestion. If you have the equipment and a supplier of aluminum tubing, rebuild your bike rack using aluminum tubing. That would reduce the weight to some degree. You could also trade/ sell your bikes and buy a pair of those high dollar light weight bikes like the pro's ride!
Bandaid If I had any confidence that the manufacturer actually put that much engineering into the design of trailers I would be concerned I might exceed thier design threshold, but I'm not. In fact, I seriously doubt much engineering or stress analysis goes into it at all! To me, it seems like the RV industry relies on "trial and error" and "whatever works for the other guys" as the main design criteria.
When I see I-beam frames fold in half because the slide arm penetration weakened the frame and the fix was to weld strengtheners around the holes the following year to avoid that problem, it is clear it is strictly trial and error, and if I brought my frame in for the same problem and was told it was out of warranty because I installed a backup light on the tail of the frame - we would definately be in court!
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SuperdutyII
AZ
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Joined: 09/30/2009
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I too also question how much actual engineering goes into the design of RV's. If I were ever to buy another RV, very small chance, I would want to know the complete organizational chart and understand exactly how much actual engineering has gone into it. Many of the failures I have observed and those mentioned here on this forum do not make sense if the RV has been properly designed. Being slightly over weight, say 5% to 10% or so should not cause major problems. If this 5 to 10% causes major structural problems then the intial design was defective. Also selling RV that do not have adequate capability of handling the normal additional load that an RV'er would include is almost criminal. There are specs and then there is common sense. If these two don't take into consideration all normal(typical) conditions then some games are being played. I absolutely disagree with those that say they are using their RV's more than what the RV manufacturer accepts or recommends. At least in my Operators Manual I have yet to find a restriction on miles per year or how rough the roads can be. Obviously common sense has to prevail. An RV is sold to be used on public roads. It is sold as a recreational VEHICLE! IF A PARTICULAR MODEL DOES NOT STAND UP TO TYPICAL ON-ROAD USAGE THEN IT HASN'T BEEN DESIGNED PROPERLY. 99% PLUS OF OUR MILES HAVE BEEN ON INTERSTATES BUT OUR RV HASN'T STOOD UP TO THAT.
* This post was
edited 11/03/09 11:50am by SuperdutyII *
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