travelnutz
West Michigan - On the Lakeshore
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Joined: 04/09/2006
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WTTCS,
Take away the incentives and you will have a Russia or any other socialistic etc type of economy. Maybe, you have never owned your own business with lots of employees or a payroll to constantly meet along with all the vast employee costs. Some of us have! While I can agree that non performing CEO'S are greatly over compensated and any bonuses, parachutes, etc payouts should only be permitted for anyone working within and contributing to a PROFITABLE operation. CEO's are but one per large business/corporation while the actual operation employees tens of thousands of inflated worker/union compensations. Tens of thousands a smaller holes will drain a water bag so much faster than one larger hole. Use the simple math you were taught in school to see how tiny the CEO's package percentage of the corporation's yearly cost is compared to the total employee's yearly compensations. Should be an eyeopener to you! Could your jealousy be showing?
2004 Chev 2500HD D/A crew cab LB 4X4, Air Bags & upgraded to 3500HD
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Keith99RS
Suffield, CT
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mowermech wrote:A supposedly wise man (I don't remember who) supposedly once said that "There is no way that the average worker making $10 per hour can afford to buy a vehicle assembled by a worker making $20 per hour!"
I think it was true when he said it, and I think it is true now.
As for the unions, as a former union member and non-union worker, and salaried exempt corporate slave, I have to wonder if we are truly any better off than our fathers or grandfathers were. Yes, the union got some benefits for the workers; vacation, sick leave, shorter work week, overtime pay, insurance, etc.. But then, they ran out of benefits to try for, so they started yelling for higher wages for the same or less work. This resulted in inflation, so they had to ask for even higher wages, which resulted in more inflation, so they needed higher wages, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
I was once asked by a staunch union member who was preaching "strike" (the contract talks hadn't even begun at that time), if I would be willing to work in "THAT PLACE" for $2.50 an hour. He just couldn't believe it when I said "YES, of course, IF the cost of living was what it was when the average worker was making $2.50 per hour!"
My last job in aviation before I retired, I was making about $18 per hour, and we weren't living a bit better than we were when I was making $9 per hour. Inflation ate up all the increase!
So, the CEO is making $10,000 per hour. Do you know how many hours per week he (or she) spends on company business? You do realize he (or she) is "salaried exempt", and gets no time and a half for over 40 hours per week? Perhaps YOU should have spent several hundred thousand dollars on college, so you could put a MBA or PhD after your name, and perhaps you should have taken another road so you could be a CEO.
Success is NOT a crime, and it should NOT be punished!
Well said Mowermech! Many people do not realize that for many CEO's there is no real vacation or time off. They are slaves to lap tops and cell phones. Time is spent away from family and friends. They also do not get compensated for this time as they are salaried and it is assumed part of the paycheck. I am sure they would love for quitting time and work a 9-10hr work day and get OT but they are doing what they chose and getting paid for their sacrifices.
Don, the Unions served their purpose as far as fair pay, hours, work conditions, child labor and so on. What exactly are they fighting for now? Other than cost of living increases for wages and such they are serving no real purpose. Businesses have become wise the rewarding employees leads to happy and productive employees.
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WTTCS
freedom , U.S.A.
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Joined: 07/28/2003
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Travelnutz, IMO, you have a lot to learn. Hope you are young enough to do it. And yes, I was an owner of my own national transportation company employing 256 drivers and many office workers, shop employees, salescrooks etc. Please dont preach economics to me.
1997 chev crew cab 454, 5 sp. 4.10
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kmfvfr
Las Vegas
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I am in management. I have kept track of all the OT and on-call pay I did for the business over the past 4 years (and will this year as well). I calculated over $110,000 of pay I did not receive. No big deal....and Keith as well as mowermech make valid points. I still enjoy what I do regardless of being here 50 hours a week and last Saturday as well.
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v10superduty
NW Ont.,Canada
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To -- WTTCS & Travelnutz
you guys are really confusing me?
It appears WTTCS is quoting PERRYSDODGE but not showing it as a quote & then Travelnutz is not agreeing with what he thinks WTTCS is saying but its really what PERRYSVDODGE said???
So possibly you guys are not really disagreeing?
wow-- I am mixed up reading this and writing this--
2000 F250 V10 dragin a 2005 Titanium 29E34RL fiver
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blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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v10superduty wrote:To -- WTTCS & Travelnutz
you guys are really confusing me?
It appears WTTCS is quoting PERRYSDODGE but not showing it as a quote & then Travelnutz is not agreeing with what he thinks WTTCS is saying but its really what PERRYSVDODGE said???
So possibly you guys are not really disagreeing?
wow-- I am mixed up reading this and writing this--
Along with wacky and travelnutz calling ea other kids, when BOTH are retired! and in the old phart stage of life or close to it, ie 70-79 yrs old..........hmmmmmmm.......maybe they need a checker board, a couple of stools, cold beers, table.....porch......and argue over the checkerboard game?!?!?!?!?! comments made with tongue in cheek!
Marty
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travelnutz
West Michigan - On the Lakeshore
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Joined: 04/09/2006
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blt2ski,
A little info for you.
Yes, I am retired from my own very successful automotive etc engineering business but still well under 70 yrs old presently. I was 45 years old when I had retired the first time but still had the fire in my belly to contribute and help projects being done correctly rather than just going out to pasture. I'll stand on my successes any day. The number of employees in the operation varied over the years from under a hundred to several hundred. I'm far from an "old phart" stage as I'm still in the advisory capacity of 2 very profitable large automotive supplier manufacturing opoerations which are still operating at near normal capacity with having had virtually no layoffs during these slow troubling times. One did clean house of their lazy leeches about a year ago and not a bit too soon. Yes, they are non-union operations and that's a huge factor as to why they are very profitable and still have their full employee force working and taking home a consitent paycheck. Quite different from the norm of today, right? One in particular is working large crews on Saturdays and many Sundays to meet their Big 3 customer orders. Yes, now it's mostly for Ford and GM! Fortunately, they both had quit supplying products to Chrysler a few years ago and what a smart move that was!
These 2 suppliers rely on this "old phart" to guide and direct them at many of the crossroads they encounter and it must be working as they are about 180 degrees from the average supplier base financial conditions and work loads. Yes, unions have tried to organize them but the employees turned them down so quickly. Now, you tell me who really won? The Union organizers or the employees who are working everyday and making a decent wage and able support their families?
I'll let these 2 operations be the judge as they can tell this "old phart" to get lost anytime they so desire but NOTE!, they haven't!!! Also, to inform you that I have 2 in our family who are executives in large automotive suppliers and extremely well compensated and 3 family members that work hourly in automotive supplier operations. Not one has been laid off or has lost their jobs! I think this "old phart" is quite well versed in our past and present day manufacturing operations and procceures....
Nuff said!
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WTTCS
freedom , U.S.A.
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Yea, but aint it fun !!!!!!
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Retired Army SSG
Turner, Oregon
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travelnutz you are right on the money...... 
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Perrysburg Dodgeboy
Perrysburg, Ohio USA
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Joined: 12/06/2003
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WTTCS do you know how to use the search engine here on RV.NET, if you do try it. You will find out that I have NEVER hid what I make and the benefits I get (it’s also on the NET Google it), Unlike Nutz who never has said who he worked/works for or what his compensation was/is .He just likes to attack the Union worker. Are there problems with the Union, yes, do they protect the slug work, yes, they have to that is why you pay union dues.
Here is what I see the problem is; even with you’re over priced education you can’t seem to read and understand the Union Contract that you signed but your lazy A## slug worker can. Here is a clue, fire all of your supervisors that can’t or won’t follow the contract and find some that will (btw they don’t have a Union so you don’t have to worry about them coming back lol).
Second, create a paper trail so when you go to arbitration you do not look like a buffoon. I have been there and just shake my head when management shows up with only one write up and the arbitrator says sorry this alone does not justify the employee being discharged. Also the company has a bad habit of allowing the “slug worker” to come back if the Union gives them other concessions usually safety issues they don’t want to address. This would not be the Unions fault but the Companies.
Every Contract has a “No Strike clause” in it that states there can be no work stoppage or slow down except for safety issues.
In the end the UAW has bent over backwards to save the Companies by giving concessions on wages, benefits and work rules. However it is there job to vigorously represent it’s members good or bad, maybe the people the Company hires should be doing the same for it! I have worked both Union and Non Union and have been on both sides of the fence. In ten+ years at Chrysler I have only had to call the Union out two times, both times Area Managers intervened on my behalf because they know I do my job and I do it well.
To address the OP the main sticking points with Ford are not pay and benefits but the no strike clause for pay/benefits for the next six years and the new hires pay being frozen at $14.00 per hour for six years! They top out at $21.00 with reduced benefits and no Company sponsored retirement. Now they want to hold them at $14.00 PH for six years but everyone else will get pay increases, I don’t think so!
Don
* This post was
edited 11/04/09 09:28am by Perrysburg Dodgeboy *
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