LIKE2BUILD
Mt. Zion, IL
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BarneyS wrote:The suggestion to put a new coupler on the bottom of the A Frame instead of the top is a good one also.
The whole key is to get the WD spring bars angled down enough to give clearance so they don't hit the cam arms or mounting bolts during turns.
Agreed. This definitely looks like your bar is rubbing the cam arm causing it to bind and bend.
I have a hypothesis that in most cases the round bar WD hitch works best when the coupler is on the top of the frame and trunion style works best when the coupler is on the bottom. I have no empirical data to support this, but if you look at the picture of Shadows4's setup and that of 'Center Pin' you see a distinct difference in bar clearance.
I think the best scenario for Shadows is to take the trailer to a frame shop and have a new coupler welded to the bottom of the frame. The hi-rise ball may give a similar result, but I'd be leary of getting too high with that.
KJ
2002 Jayco Qwest 324G
2004 Chevy 2500HD CrewCab |6.0L|2X4|4.10:1 | Eaton Posi-Trac
Curt MagnumV receiver
Eaz-Lift Hitch with Reese Dual Cam
1981 Seastar 18' Runabout
1996 Polaris SLT780 Waverunner
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seasonedsole
Berwick, Pa
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I believe the new style bars require the new style cams.
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JBarca
Dublin, Ohio, USA
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shadows4 wrote:dodge guy wrote:Anyone else notice that it looks as though the WD bar is too wide for the cam arm? either way you need to be watching the bars as someone else turns the truck with the trailer attached.
You`ll find it, just keep an eye open.
Good luck!
Kevin! You may have something there. My wife and I were discussing this and we had no problems for 4 years with this setup on two different trailers using 1000lb bars with the cam adapters. Last fall I bought the 1200lb bars. Just wondering if the cam area is bigger on the HP cams? Anyone have any idea about this? Thanks,John
Hi Shadows4
I know I’m late on the scene here but I may see your problem. And I’m believe you stumbled on it. A call to Reese will confirm what I am going to say here if correct or not.
I “thought” I read somewhere in the Reese literature that the older standard DC is only to be used with the cam adapters. It is not to be used with the new style V notched WD bar. The new style bar is made to go with the new style HP DC. The 1,200, 1500 and 1700 WD bars could be wider then the older 1,000# bars and the bolt on cam adapter. The 600 and 800# V notch bars are narrower then the 1,200# and they "might" work.
Do you still have your cam adapters and what width are they? and the WD bar?
Now here is what I believe is occurring. First you do not have the DC arm bend like the new HP DC has when it has broken off. I’ll explain that in a moment.
See your pics here.
Correct me where I go wrong here. Your cam arm is bent “IN” more the it is out, and it is not out like the breaks associated with the new style HP DC. Every break I have helped with on the new style HP DC has been an outward force, not in.
By the wear pattern of the saddle of your cam arm the new style WD bar is not riding correctly at all in the saddle. The contact is not right and the width is not right. It is in a bind from the get go. The WD is wedging in the nest of the cam arm.
See here on the new style HP DC that is made to use the new style V notch WD bar. The round lobe is a straight diameter across.
On the new HP DC that uses the V notched bars,there is slightly less then 1/8” clearance between the WD bar and the sides of the cam arm nest. That clearance allows the WD bar to ride up and over the cam in a turn when the WD is on a slight anlge to the cam nest. You can even bind up the new style if you have the wrong condtions.
This pic of your shows clearly, there is no side clearance. It is almost a wedge fit.
This is what I believe is going on in your case. The WD bar is binding in the DC area and in a left turn it is pushing the cam arm inward and bending it.
To help prove this is “not” the Dc arm bend of the HP DC, see here the new system happens.
This action results in the cam arm bending “outward” and produces this break when it goes far enough.
And another one
And another one. They are all bending outward not inward
To help prove you are not bending it with the WD binding on the DC arm like the new style HP DC, there would be fresh rub/scrub marks on the paint on the side of the WD and line up exactly with the arm of the DC. The nicks would be up by te U bolt area.
You can also just put the hitch head up on the ball coupler, hook up the WD bars and by hand move the hitch shank left and right and up and down at the same time similating a turn. When it is loaded the pressure is extreme and any bind and the WD bar is not going up and over the cam.
OR slowy back into a turn and have someone look at the hitch, Stop when you see high stress. Get out and see, is it bound up?
Since I can’t see exactly from here, you check it out and report back.
Hope this helps and good luck
John
* This post was
edited 11/05/09 09:25pm by JBarca *
John & Cindy
2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver
2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
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BarneyS
S.E. Lower Michigan
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seasonedsole wrote:I believe the new style bars require the new style cams.
Nope, it is just the other way around. The new style Dual Cam can only be used with the new style (bend end) bars. It cannot be used with the bolt on adaptors used for the flat bars.
JBarca wrote:I “thought” I read somewhere in the Reese literature that the older standard DC is only to be used with the cam adapters. It is not to be used with the new style V notched WD bar.
Sorry John but this statement is incorrect also. The old style Dual Cam can be used with either the bolt on cam adapters OR with the newer style bent end bars. What you probably are referring to is the statement that the NEW style DUAL CAM (HP style) will only work with the newer style bent end bars and cannot be used with the bolt on cam adapters.
In other words, the older style Dual Cam will use any kind of WD bars but the HP style will only use the newer style bend end bars.
I see nothing wrong with the bars the OP is using on his older style Dual Cam. I think the gouging that we see in the pictures on the cams is probably due to the forces that were placed on the bars when they got bent and not due to any problem with the size of the bars.
Barney
2004 Sunnybrook 30FKS TT
Hensley "Arrow" 1400# hitch
2002 Ford F250 Super Duty, 7.3L PSD
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JBarca
Dublin, Ohio, USA
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BarneyS wrote:
JBarca wrote:I “thought” I read somewhere in the Reese literature that the older standard DC is only to be used with the cam adapters. It is not to be used with the new style V notched WD bar.
Sorry John but this statement is incorrect also. The old style Dual Cam can be used with either the bolt on cam adapters OR with the newer style bent end bars. What you probably are referring to is the statement that the NEW style DUAL CAM (HP style) will only work with the newer style bent end bars and cannot be used with the bolt on cam adapters.
In other words, the older style Dual Cam will use any kind of WD bars but the HP style will only use the newer style bend end bars.
I see nothing wrong with the bars the OP is using on his older style Dual Cam. I think the gouging that we see in the pictures on the cams is probably due to the forces that were placed on the bars when they got bent and not due to any problem with the size of the bars.
Barney
Hi Barney
Well if it is a known fact that the new bars with the V notch can work with the old Std DC in the 1,200# width, then this is good to know. The 600 and 800# new style bars are much narrower and I would not see the problem so much. I was not 100% positive which was why I stated a call to Reese may be needed to confirm unless someone else knew for sure it was acceptable, again in the 1,200# WD bar width. So we may be past this. However….
I do see a binding problem between the WD bars and the DC lobe. We need Shadows4 to confirm which why the bend was if he can. The pictures seem to show the DC arm is bent back towards the TT and then curved in. Look at the snap up chain. It is up against the frame indicating the bend is towards the TT and inward. This bend that Shadows4 has appears to be from a force acting in that direction. It does "not" look like a force that acts from the WD touching the sides of the DC cam arm and prying the cam “outwards”. If it was, it would leave tracks. The WD bar paint and the DC arm would be dinged up about 1/2 way down the DC arm.
And.... the DC arm would be bent outwards. So again we need to have this confirmed.
This much I can confirm, even on the new style HP DC, if the angle of the DC arm is sticking out too much from the A frame, the WD bar will bind up in the cam lobe area and a lot of force will be exerted straight back and then inwards in a turn. I have seen this on my own. Once I saw that it can happen, I adjusted the frame plate mount so the cam lobe was in line with the WD bar. Then I ahve no bind as there is enough clearance on the sides.
This same problem may be occurring on Shadows4’ setup. Why for 4 years with the old adapters he has no issues. Then he adds the 1,200# new style WD bar and he is bending the arm? The hitch head position did not change up or down, the distance between the WD bar and the DC arm did not change, he did not bend up the arm in a turn with the old bars, but the DC lobe area may have changed in relationship of clearance.
Shadows4’s, do you still have the old DC adapter? What is the width of the adapter?
And what is the width of the older DC cam lobe area?
We can compare the clearance of the old to your new setup and see if this turns up anything
If the WD bar is at an angle in the DC lobe area it may be binding due to less clearance then the old bolt on adapters had.
Please report back your findings. This one is a need to know for sure what is going wrong.
Hope this helps
John
Also, does anyone know for sure that on the old style Reese trunnion hitch they ever had WD bars above 1,000#? I do not know when the 1,200# wider bars came along. The 1,200# new WD bar is the same width as a 1,700# WD bar and I know anything above 1,200# never existed when the old DC was made. This is just a side tide bit of info.
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shadows4
Kansas City, Mo
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I gave the old stuff to a friend of mine. The TT is already winterized and in storage. Work has picked up, lots of OT. I will go out to the TT and check everything out and let you know. It may just be a couple of weeks before I get the time to do so. I will also get with my friend and get the measurements from the old cam adapters. Thanks so much for all the help so far. I knew I could count on the people from RV.net for their help!
(Will update in this thread when I have the info.)
2000 4X4 Excursion Limited 6.8V10, 4.30, 124,000 miles
Hellwig Rear Sway Bar
Roadmaster Active Suspension
2000 Coachmen 297 RKS (Approx. 9000lbs loaded)
Reese Dual Cam Sway Control
I WORK FOR FORD, SO I DRIVE A FORD!
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BarneyS
S.E. Lower Michigan
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JBarca wrote:Well if it is a known fact that the new bars with the V notch can work with the old Std DC in the 1,200# width, then this is good to know. The 600 and 800# new style bars are much narrower and I would not see the problem so much. I was not 100% positive which was why I stated a call to Reese may be needed to confirm unless someone else knew for sure it was acceptable, again in the 1,200# WD bar width.
John,
You may be entirely correct in the 1200lb bar width. I was posting in regards to the statement tha the old style Dual Cam required the bolt on adapters which I know for a fact to be incorrect.
As far as the 1200lb bars being a new item, I think they have been around for quite some time in the trunnion style. I think Reese came out with 1200lb round bars recently though. I have not talked with Reese for some time about the Dual Cam so you might be right on the 1200lb bars being too wide. I agree that another call to Reese is in order on that. I would think though that we would have heard from others that are using those bars if there were a problem.
It will be interesting to hear back from Shadows4 when he gets the measurements from his trailer and friend.
Barney
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LIKE2BUILD
Mt. Zion, IL
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JBarca wrote:
Well if it is a known fact that the new bars with the V notch can work with the old Std DC in the 1,200# width, then this is good to know. The 600 and 800# new style bars are much narrower and I would not see the problem so much. I was not 100% positive which was why I stated a call to Reese may be needed to confirm unless someone else knew for sure it was acceptable, again in the 1,200# WD bar width. So we may be past this.
I have an Eaz-Lift Round Bar WD hitch head and use Draw-Tite 1000# bars with the built-in crook in combination with the Dual Cam 26001. I have about 800# TW when running with a full water tank.
With this combo my wear pattern on the cam lobes is similar to Shadows4. However, I have good clearance between the arms and the WD bars and have no evidence of rubbing between the two and no arm bending.
KJ
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