KendallP
Grants Pass, OR
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Joined: 09/11/2006
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What, are you guys involved in some kind of freaky... battery pissing match???
Yeah, the 530s are the same as my ol' man's 460s, only with a little more capacity... but probably at the expense of some sludge room in the bottom... or thinner plates or something. IMO, there's no free lunch. Pretty tough to get more total-lifetime Amp hours out of the same sized jar. You can spend more money trying too, though! 
Cheers,
Kendall
1986 Winnebago Chieftain 22RC
Our Camper (with no payments)
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MEXICOWANDERER
las peñas, michoacan, mexico
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Joined: 06/01/2007
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KendallP hit the nail right on the head. And I also sent him a PM apology for my mis-intended use of the word "retard". I meant fully and completely to describe the lackadaisical attitude, one of ignorance laced with contempt by one-too-many individuals who I have been forced to deal with in the lead acid battery retail business.
A battery may cost three hundred dollars versus a hundred dollars for a seemingly adequate alternative. You go on vacation or otherwise depend on the battery. It fails. How much will this mess up your vacation? How many miles to a retailer? How much gasoline? How much headache? Did the failed battery do any collateral damage? Add it all up. Add say five hours of your time. Now how much of that two hundred dollars did you save, hmmmmmmm? Five hours alone of your time is forty dollars a hour. Think about it. Think really well and hard. Think about that gas pump at four dollars a gallon. Think about eating with a flashlight. Think about screwing around with battery straps, covers, hold downs, remembering where battery wires go. Think ahead to how much fun you're going to have arguing with the retailer, lugging that battery all over Sam Hill and back.
I'm far and away too cheap to engage in the "Cheap At Any Price Game". When I buy something want it to last period. Not merely a long time; I want it to last long enough to pay for itself three times over.
When I built those ten thousand alternators, they were advertised as being superior to OEM brand new, and they were. In all respects. Performance, durability and longevity. .02% warranty rate on a one-year MONEY BACK warranty.
Yeah, I'm old, cranky, and cheap. But I'd like to think I'm smart too :-)
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Chuck&Gail
In the Colorado Mountains
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Joined: 06/16/2004
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I think the car comparison was valid. Price of a Yugo versus Rolls Royce is similar to battery comparison prices. Sometimes you DO get what you pay for.
Chuck
Wonderful Wife
Australian Shepherd
2010 Ford Expedition TV
2010 Outback 230RS Toybox, 5390# UVW, 6800# Loaded
Not yet camped in Hawaii, 2 Canada Provinces, & 2 Territories
I can't be lost because I don't care where this lovely road is going
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greenrvgreen
open road
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Joined: 09/05/2007
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I took my dead Wally Everstart back to WM under warrantee and they did the same superficial test and I left without a new battery. I will never buy a WM battery again.
4 years ago I bought 4 Costco 6v batts and they are still chugging along with hard use. When I get the yen for fresh batts I will buy another set of these.
While the Surrette batts are a thing of beauty, I do not see how the numbers work out for hard use. IMO, batteries are too heavy to spec a bank of sufficient size for RVing. Therefore any battery on my rig is going to get very familiar with 30% SOC (followed by a rapid recharge). If they wear out prematurely, that's what credit cards are for.
FWIW, calling anyone a "retard" does no one any good. That said, whenever I see Floyd Landis on the television I start screaming that very word.
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KendallP
Grants Pass, OR
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greenrvgreen wrote:...That said, whenever I see Floyd Landis on the television I start screaming that very word.
No, no. The word is "retired." Floyd Landis is "retired."
I'm, by no means ultra P.C. But I do think that word is something we should all work on. It's hurtful to the defenseless who, for the most part, didn't choose their circumstances. They should remind us to count our blessings. And they are often a blessing themselves.
And FWIW, I hadn't asked my dear ol' friend, Mex for an apology. In mind of a family member, I just requested he choose some different words going forward. And it seems clear he will be.
A great guy... I think just became even greater.
I believe some good was done here today. Now let's all burn some incense, get in a circle and sing Kumbaya to the trees and creatures of the forest.
Or... perhaps just get back to batteries.
Yes. Rolls ROCKS!!! And... so forth.
Carry on...
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mena661
Southern California
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Joined: 03/21/2009
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LMAO @ BFL and PT!!!!! Friggin awesome!!! I will admit and Mex may disagree but at $1175 each I'm getting LiFePo4 batteries. Ultimate longevity may not be proven (at least longevity within the manufacturers guidlines anyways) but the upsides are awesome.
500Ah of LFE's at 141 lbs. That pic is from a forum members blog HERE.
mexbungalows wrote:I'm far and away too cheap to engage in the "Cheap At Any Price Game". When I buy something want it to last period. Not merely a long time; I want it to last long enough to pay for itself three times over. I am a subscriber to this philosophy. I still build my own computers. Sure there's a few man hours to put it together and get it running and it costs three times more than your average store built junk but I don't have problems because the components are top notch. You can't get this quality even if you paid Dell $3500 of your hard earned money (my home computer costs roughly half of that but I don't use a CAD video card...$1200 for just that). I know, I use a $3500 POS in at work daily and I support 30 other $3500 POS's. I don't replace computers because they're broken, I replace them because I'm tired of them. And I recycle them to friends and family who consequently don't have problems either. I have a former co-worker that I built a computer for 6 years ago. Still raves about it. He paid me $1200 for it. Still going strong.
greenrvgreen wrote:While the Surrette batts are a thing of beauty, I do not see how the numbers work out for hard use. IMO, batteries are too heavy to spec a bank of sufficient size for RVing. Therefore any battery on my rig is going to get very familiar with 30% SOC (followed by a rapid recharge). If they wear out prematurely, that's what credit cards are for. I've got 400 lbs of batteries (4 total) in a 9500 lb GVWR, 30 foot 5th wheel. Still well under that GVWR but we tend to leave the house at home. And a LOT of people here have MUCH heavier 5ers than me with WAY more stuff in them. Weight is a non-issue IMO. And Rolls batteries don't fail prematurely. That's their whole point and hard use? They're used on off grid homes running AC units and washer-dryers for 10 years plus. Most people here can't seem to make a 12V last a year just running the heater and some lights.
* This post was
edited 04/12/12 07:24pm by mena661 *
2009 Newmar Canyon Star 3205, Ford F53 V10
Trojan L16 6V's 740 Amp-hours
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MEXICOWANDERER
las peñas, michoacan, mexico
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When I chatted with the Rolls engineering team many years ago, I told them of a story about a bank of L-16's on a ketch in San Lucas. They had been full fielded overcharged by a 200 amp alternator until one battery exploded a chunk out of the lid the size of a saucer. Another blew a chunk of lid corner out the size of a pack of cigarettes. Another had a foot long crack.
The skipper had flushed out the battery compartment bilge, and used pounds of baking soda to neutralize acid. I had brought a commercial quantity of battery case adhesive materials with me so I glued and patched the damage. I then refilled the batteries and adjusted the SG to 1.265 which is fine for the final destination of the Marquesas and Roatonga. I used FOUR GALLONS of distilled water and TWO GALLONS of acid to refill (8) L-16 batteries.
The owner was utterly convinced the new batteries were junk, he was out several thousands of dollars, and a lifetime cruising trip was over-the-side.
The batteries were recharged. CCA was checked and rechecked. Absolutely met OEM specs! More hydrometer readings and verification. The batteries were cycled several times, I believe seven, and CCA and SG were rechecked.
The skipper was astonished. I have to admit, I was impressed.
The Leece-Neville alternator hadn't fared as well. The stator was cooked, as were all six rectifiers. He junked the Balmar voltage regulator and fitted my recommendation, an Ample Power model.
He sailed to the Marquesas with his family and crew of two and chortled the story to anyone listening on the SSB radio cruiser's frequency.
Stuff like this creates legends, and Trace Engineering did it with their inverters. It's tough for me to settle for less.
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MEXICOWANDERER
las peñas, michoacan, mexico
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Mena, you have GOT TO find a temperature alarm. Use thermisters on the negative battery posts to SCREAM if temperatures exceed a set-point.
Lithium batteries will explode like a claymore if they are overcharged, mis-perform or otherwise deform their chemistry to the point of destruction.
A lithium battery bank as depicted could explode and utterly destroy a large motor home. Leaving a large crater in the asphalt. GM labs just suffered a lithium explosion that blew half inch thick steel doors off their hinges!
Please protect yourself. Do some internet researching.
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mena661
Southern California
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Joined: 03/21/2009
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I heard about the GM explosion but that's actually a different chemistry than the LiFePo4's. LiFePo4 are a LOT less volatile than one's used in cars and laptops. LFE are used in racing sailboats, DIY EV cars, and making small inroads in RV's. I have done a bit of research on these, posted some here, I'm comfortable with using them. A battery management system is required IMO. Others say it's not (just with LFE's though). The BMS will prevent overcharging and overdischarging (by disconnecting the batteries from the load or from the charger) at a minimum. They do other stuff too but those two things are the bare minimum.
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MEXICOWANDERER
las peñas, michoacan, mexico
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You done good laddie. Your safety was all I was concerned with. Could not tell from the image what chemistry was involved. Sorry for the wolf alarm.
I do want to purchase a 12 cell lithium ion battery for this laptop and supposedly get a 235% autonomous operation time improvment.
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