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RE: Traverse/Acadia/Enclave.. what size of hybid are you towing
checked with a friend of mine today and to my surprize, your traverse with the tow package has a GCVW of 10,250. The curb weight of your vehicle assuming it does not have power seats and a sunroof is our guestimate of 4720 lbs. You should go have your vehicle weighed to know for sure. Based on that, assuming 550 lbs for passengers and another 200 lbs for luggage and ice coolers in the vehicle, your vehicle is probably close to 5500 lbs when loaded.. Subract that from the GCVW puts the maximum loaded weight of your trailer at 4750 lbs. Apply the 1000 lb rule for safety, the max loaded weight of your trailer should be around #3700 lbs. If you were to buy a HTT that has a dry weight of about 3200lbs, accoridng the GM's stated weights, should be in good shape. It would be pretty hard to take an additional 500 lbs of stuff camping since your HTT already has everything you need for a luxuary getaway!
Check the numbers yourself to be sure! I am still surprized with this GCVW, but impressive. Good luck and have fun shopping !!!
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gjmosko
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01/27/10 11:30am |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Traverse/Acadia/Enclave.. what size of hybid are you towing
Dont be fooled by advertised max towing capacities. Automakers puts these huge numbers our there to get sales and in my opinion, takes advantage of people like you who are just getting into the sport of towing and simply do not undertand yet how all the numbers actually work. Fortunately, you found this great forum that will help you make a very educated decision. Forget about what the sales people tell you and think about your safety first. You need to know the GCVR which is not listed on the sticker of the door but is only stated in the owners manual usually in the towing section. It is well hidden. Assuming the GCVR is 9500 lbs and then the loaded actual weight of your car with family and normal stuff you take comes in at about 5700 lbs, then the final actual MAX loaded weight of your trailer becomes 3800 lbs. You should then be looking at a trailer that has an unloaded dry weight of about 2800 lbs. I would be curious to know from any Enclave or Traverse owners what your manual states as a GCVR since it is not posted on the chevy website. Why is that not posted? Its to hide the real towing capacity. You really need to know the GCVR and then work backwards. This car replaced the ENVOY XL which was a full truck frame chasis rear wheel drive. The traverse is a uni-frame front wheel drive( identical to most mini vans). I find it very difficult to believe that this vehicle can tow safely what it claims. Personally find it very unsafe to tow with a front wheel drive considering that your steering and drive axles are one in the same. If your WDH is not set up correctly,and are overloaded, you seriously affect the steering and handling of this vehicle.
Keep up the research so you are well educated on the real numbers, then you will know what you can safely tow !!
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gjmosko
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01/26/10 09:30pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Seeking tow weight advice for an Envoy and a HTT
one more advise. If you do chose the equalizer, you MUST buy the equlizer brand ball. The reason is that the trunion bars that hook to your trailer actually swing underneath the ball when truning. The equalizer brand ball has a shank length that is 1" shorter than the cheaper trailer hitch balls that are sold at autozone. The shorter shank allows the bars to swing under the ball with no interfearence. Also, you will want the 600lb/6000lb model. The bars on this one are 1 1/4" which give your HTT and Envoy a nice smooth towing ride. The 1000/10000 lb model has 1 1/2" bars which is way overkill for a hybrid and would result in a very stiff ride when connected, not to mention would actually defeat the sway contol because your tongue weight of most HTT is around 350 - 400 lbs. FYI- the 600lb is the max tounge weight that can be put on this hitch and the 6000 lb is the max weight that your trailer can be.
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gjmosko
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01/13/10 08:36pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Seeking tow weight advice for an Envoy and a HTT
no problem for the info. That what this whole community is about, helping you make an informed choice. Here are a few more considarations. Dont get hung up on the GVW of the trailer because that is the max limit of what the trailer is to be loaded. If you were to use the same reasoning on your envoy xl, the GVW of your vehicle is 6400, then the GVW of your trailer becomes 3600 lbs which would limit you to a pop-up trailer. Since you weighed in at 5700, you are correct that your trailer shouldnt be over 4300 loaded, even though the GVW is stated at 5000lbs loaded. My 19CK GVW is 5000lbs but my estimate is i am somehwere around 3400 loaded. In 2008, that seems to be the year that all of the hybrid manufactures increased the width of the trailer from 7'6" to 8'. My 2005 CK is 7'6" wide with an unloaded weight is 2841 and the GVW is 5000 lbs. The same 2008 model 8' wide unloaaded weight went to 3170 yet the GVW remained at 5000lbs. Sjones 6335 is towing a Rockwood roo with his trailerblazer, the sister vehicle to the envoy. Assuming his trailerblazer is the extended version, his Roo unloaded weight is about 3170. Add 2 60lb propane tanks and a 50lb battery, gives a realistic unloaded weight of 3340 lbs. He has 1000 lbs of capacity left before he is at his combined vehicle weight of 10K. Since you understand this, most of the newer 19' hydrids are stated around 3100-3300 lbs unloaded. Do you really think your are going to pack an additonal 1000 lbs of stuff to go camping, your trailer already has everything in it including the kitchen sink! :)
To answer your question about tranny cooler intallation, I did mine myself, thanks to the advice from the guys on TRAILVOY.COM forum. The cooler and guage I stated is what most of the guys use in the TRAILVOY forum. you want that B&M model because it fits perfectly in front of the space you have in front of your radiator. If I were to pay someone, I would find a local transmission shop because their rate will most likely be less than the dealer. Most dealers wont install aftermarket equipment. Mine wouldnt. I did confrim with my GMC service advisor that it is a good idea to add one as an added precaution, even though your envoy has one built into the center of your radiator. What a joke that is. IF the radiator is running at 205 deg, how can it get the tranny fluid down to 180 towing a 4300lb load?
Regarding the WDH, that is your choice. Not all WDH are the same. Some are only weight distribution, but the equalizer provides both weight distribution and sway control, not to mention it is easy to hook up when leaving for your trip. If you havent done so, review the equalizerhitch.com website and watch the video. AS chuck5 stated, you can set this up yourself on a flat driveway if you can follow instructions. It took some time, but nothing that should scare you. i have absolutely no sway at all even after a 18wheeler blows by me at 95mph. Let us know if you need anymore info.
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gjmosko
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01/13/10 08:19pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Seeking tow weight advice for an Envoy and a HTT
My set up is a 2005 envoy xl I6 4X4 3.42 rear end.I have never weighed my envoy, but your weight has confirmed my estimate. GMC told me that my vehicle weighed 4990 at the factory. Add 208 lbs for 25 gal fo fuel and 500 lbs for may family, i am almost right on. I tow a 2005 Starcraft 19CK which has an unloaded weight of 2841. My estimate is that i am around 9200 GCVW when fully loaded which agrees with the other comments about being 1000 lbs under your CGVW. I I live near Akron Ohio, not far from you and have towed to Virgina beach 3 years in a row now. On flat land, no problem, but when you get into PA on those 7% grades, my speed drops to about 45. Even to maintian that, I am in 2nd gear reving around 4300 rpms. I do have an equalizer 6000 lb WDH which i would highly suggest you invest in. RVwholesaler.com has the best price. Also, i installed a B&M 70268 tranny cooler with a B&M 80212 tranny guage from Summit racing. The tranny temp tracks around 180 F until you hit any long incline grade of which it shoots up to about 210 F. Do some reasearch on tranny fluid breakdown. You want to stay out of the 220 F range and over if you dont want to cook your tranny. After you crest the hill, it quickly drops back to 180 F which tells me that cooler is working awsome. There are many opinions as to where to instal the temp sender, but i chose the line comming out of the tranny becasue i wanted to know the actual temp of what is being pumped out.My friend is a mechanic at GM and told me to change the fluid at 40K and every 20K after that if i do a lot of long haul towing. The big thing is to get up to speed slowly and not kill your vehicle. This will help prolong the life of your tranny. I also bought some Tow-N-See mirrors that actually vacume attach to your stock mirrors. I love them because they are easy to use.
As you have done, i did my homework on this until my wife almost divorced me, but she now appreciates the safe set up we have for her and our two girls. I am shocked at what i see pull into the numerous campgrounds we go to every year and it make me wonder how some poeple can have no considaration for the safety of their family and others on the road because i KNOW for a fact they are overloaded based on the reasearch i have done regarding towing. I am happy with what we have. You too will find that it would be nice to have a bigger tow vehicle, but, for the 8 times a year we get out and the trip to the beach each summer, I love my envoy xl the rest of the year especailly when school is in and we need the space for extra kids in the car.
Good luck and thanks for asking!!!!
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gjmosko
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01/12/10 09:56pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: 2001 Ford Escape
go to the dealer and have thme fix it. Your ford essape can tow a pop up at best
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gjmosko
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10/01/09 11:01pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Equalizer hitch ball
retired 1
you need to buy the "equalizer ball" because their balls have a shorter shank to ensure that the movement under the sway bars dont interfer with the shank of the ball you purchased.
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gjmosko
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10/01/09 10:51pm |
Towing
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RE: Which Equalizer??????
one more comment on the hitch. Make sure you buy the equalizer ball. I tried to be cheap and use my 2" ball that i already had and found out that the shank was too long. The equalizer ball has a much shorter shank, and for a reason. The equalizer bars swing under the ball when you make a tight turn. If you use a standard ball, the shank extends too far and causes interference with the bars which will damage the head assembly. The ball requires 400 ft/lb of torque so you will have to have a local shop put the ball on with a air impact tool.Last, another vote for the prodigy. I had a hayyes which i thought was good, but no comparison to the prodigy. What a great devise and seroius peace of mind !!!
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gjmosko
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07/24/09 09:27pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Which Equalizer??????
IT DEPENDS ON THE WEIGHT OF YOUR TRAILER. i called the company before i bought mine and they told me that 600/6000 is rated for a 600 max tounge weight/ 6000 lb max trailer weight. if your trailer has a GVW of 5000, then the 600/6000 is the one you want. if your trailer is 7500 lbs, the you want the 10,000 lbs rating. The difference in the weight ratings is the size of the bars. The 6000lbs one has 1 1/4 square bars. The 10,000 lb rating has 1 1/2" square bars. The company does not reccomend using a 10,000lb rating for a 5000 lb trailer because the hich wont perform as it is designed. Give them a call. They are very helpful. You will love the hitch.
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gjmosko
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07/24/09 01:04pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: HTT: I learned to pray everytime I saw a Semi in my mirrors
we upgraded last year from a pop-up to a hybrid. I researched all of the weight distribution hitches and decided on the equalizer. We towed from ohio to virginia beach. The equalizer performed outstanding. We had numberous trucks blow by us at 90+ mph and the trailer stayed straight as an arrow. I would highly recommend this hitch. Your quality S hitch should have a spot on the hitch to add a smaller ball for a fritction sway control arm. Dont bother. It wont perform anywhere near what the equalier does. I bought mine online at rvwholesalers.com. Free shipping and about 300 bucks less than the dealer.
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gjmosko
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07/20/09 10:56am |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: leaky skylight in bathroom
same problem for us. We have a 2005 starcraft 19CK and the exact same thing happened. Once on top of the trailer, i was shocked to see ho split open the caulk was around that skylight. I carefully scraped off the old and applied dicor self leveling arount the whole edge and over the screws. You should also inspect every lap seam on your roof. I found several other area that were splitting open. Instead of scraping out all of those area, i wiped down the split areas with lacqur thinner to clean it and applied the dicor self leveling caulk right into the split opening. There were about 10 locations of this happening. The trailer spent the first 2 years out side with no cover. After all of the research i have done on sun damage to those rubber roof, spent the money and bought a cover. i am convinced that you should cover your trailer when it is not in use. Yeah it takes me 20 minutes to cover it, but now iw have a peace of mind. In addition, the trailer always looks new when i take it out. No more black streaks and moldy water in the rolled up awning.
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gjmosko
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07/17/09 11:02am |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Heat Only Digital Thermostat?
i installed a white rogers 1E78-140 digital heat only themostat. This is batery operated and compatable with your heater. Someone on this thorum a year ago mentioned it. It is awsome and holds the temp + or - 1 deg. I bought it on line for 20 bucks.
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gjmosko
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06/20/09 12:37am |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: minivan pulling trailer
forget it. stick with a pop up under 2000 lbs.Towing with anything over 2000# is flat out unsafe. Think of your family first!
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gjmosko
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06/19/09 11:57pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Please Help
you are over the limit of your tow vehicle with this trailer. Take it from one who owned a Grand Caravan, the transmissions in this vehicle are cheap and are not designed to pull anything. I had a 2100lb pop up and the tranny failed at 42K, even with a transmission cooler. Front wheel drive vehicles in general are not safe for towing.I constantly was pushed all over the road and the towing experience was really unsafe. Get yourself a good SUV rear wheel drive and you will be fine.
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gjmosko
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04/30/09 09:13pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Brake controller/WDH - which to choose?
i chose the equalizer WDH from the stand point of safety. Check out their website. It clearly demonstrates how the hitch works. I had a quality s WDH, similar to the husky, but that hitch does not control sway. Bought the equalizer fron RV Wholesalers for $400 free shipping and it by far is one of the best purchases i have made. I also bought the prodigy for $90 and got rid of my Hayes controller. The new combination is night and day from what i had.
Do your research and educate yourself on the whole towing issue. From a safety standpoint, it is something you need to learn on your own. The dealers only want to sell you a trailer. Most salesman dont understand the mechanics of towing because they dont even own a travel trailer.
Congrats on your new purchase.
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gjmosko
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04/30/09 08:51pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: 9 MPG??
That MPG is part of the cost of owning a trailer. Who cares? Look at it this way. I tow to Virgina Beach from Ohio. My cost at the campground is $28 a night compared to $240 a night at a hotel. The added cost of fuel is nothing to what i save by camping. Dont worry about it!!!! Enjoy your purchase and the sport :)
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gjmosko
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04/10/09 09:51pm |
Towing
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RE: Favorite Mods ya'll have made?
i just installed a White_Rodgers 1E78-140 heat only digital thermostat.Bought it at prothermostats.com for $24.95. Maintains a the temp within +/- 1 deg. Someone last year mentioned this one in a post which convinced me to buy it. It is battery operated and is compatable with a 12V system. The cheap thermosat that was in my Starcraft 19CK had temperature swings of +or - 5 deg's. Everybody complained that either they were too hot or too cold. After installing it this past weekend, i tested it and sure enough, the furnce shut off at exactly 1 deg over the set point. I cant wait for the first trip to see the families response. My guess is that it will go unoticed because my wife says it is a guy thing.
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gjmosko
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04/10/09 09:14pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Thinking of going back to a popup!
i was in at a local dealer the other day looking at upgrading my Starcraft 19ck. Noticing that the dealer had no used hybrids on the lot, i asked why. The reason is that the hybrids of all the travel trailers is a super hot market right now because most people own an suv which this trailer is perfect for towing. Most famalies want to upgrade from the pop up to a travel trailer own an suv and soon find out that they cannot tow a travel trailer because of the weight. Their only option is a hybrid. My 2005 ck has a nada trade in value of about 8000 which is what the dealer would give me. He told me to put it on craigs list for 10,500, and accept an offer of 9800. He assured me this would sell with in 2 weeks.
Take a look at traderonline.com. It is very difficult to find a used CK. The last few 2005 I saw which was in december 2008, were going for around 11,500 at the dealers. Sorry to hear about your situation, but dont let that became an issue for you to be taken advantage of.
Good luck
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gjmosko
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04/09/09 08:36pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: What weight dist hitch are you using on 17-21 foot HTT
thre is no way i would considar towing this trailer with your TV. You are overloaded. The specs on your vehicle indicate that the 3500lb capacity assumes that only a 150 lb driver with no cargo or passengers can tow this amount. Personally, this set up is unsafe and you should reconsidar for the safety of your family and others on the road. When i had my 2001 Dodge grand caravan, very similar to your Honda, my trip bringing my 2100 lb Rockwood pop up home from the dealer was the last. I sold my caravan the next week and bought an Envoy XL. I now own a 2005 Starcraft 19CK that weighs in at 3300# loaded and with my Envoy Xl 4WD I6 3.42 rear end I am at my limit for safe towing. Be careful !!
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gjmosko
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04/04/09 12:55am |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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RE: Nervous about first trip in HTT...
I wouldnt worry about what you cant change. We have a travelstar 19CK and condensation happens in all hybrids when it gets below 40 degs. I put a plastic sheet under the matress to keep the matress dry. Most likey you are going for a weekend. You will just have to wipe the inside of your canvas in the morning and run the air conditioner for an hour to remove the humidity. To be safe, when we get back home, I always open the trailer in my drive, remove the matresses and run the air for the afternoon. This removes all of the moisture that is in the trailer. My trailer is a 2005 and it still smells new everytime we take it out. Enjoy your trailer. The model you have is a great layout. Honestly, I like your layout better than my 19CK.
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gjmosko
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03/20/09 09:47pm |
Hybrid Travel Trailers
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