freeneasy
Alberta and everywhere
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Joined: 12/30/2006
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My concern is the liability in case of an accident. I strongly suspect that you insurance could be voided. Also in parts of Canada, rv's are pulled over and weighed. If they are to heavy for the tow vehicles, they are pulled off the highway and not allowed to move until hooked to a properly rated toe vehicle.
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BarbaraOK
Livingston, Texas, USA
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It isn't pulling something along a straight flat midwest road. Can you STOP that amount the weight coming down a 6-8% or more grade? That's the real test, can you safely STOP. I suspect that we've all seen a lot of PU/5er combination and were glad they were not behind us coming down the Grapevine or some other pass.
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grampachet
West Coast
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Joined: 12/14/2006
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When a 250's brakes (caliper and pads & wheel bearings too) has the exact same part numbers as the 350, what could be the difference in how they stop?
2004 F-250 KR,CC,SB,SRW,4x4,V-10,3.73
2008 Montana 3000RK
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Here'n'There
Texas
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Joined: 10/09/2008
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Let's be honest here.....
I pull a 16,450 pound fifth wheel with my 2008 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7 liter Turbo Diesel, automatic 6 speed, tow mode, 4.11:1 rear end, quad cab dually. Arguably a pretty nice truck, or at very least, a popular truck.
So like I said to open my response.. I will be honest... the truck pulls great on the straight and level, but going up hill (6% grade more or less), my speed will decrease from 60mph at the bottom of the hill to around 45 before getting to the top. That's just the way it is.
NOW... pulling that trailer with a 3/4 ton truck? WOW! I can't imagine it - the strain on the suspension, the engine and power train, the frame. Lourd knows I am no mechanic... but it just doesn't seem to make sense ya know? And if you breakdown and try to get the manufacturer to fix it under warantee... forget it if you've been towing over specifications. And what of your insurance should you get into an accident? Sorry Charlie... your insurance is void!
In any case.... we'll see ya......
Here'n'There
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BarbaraOK
Livingston, Texas, USA
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grampachet wrote:When a 250's brakes (caliper and pads & wheel bearings too) has the exact same part numbers as the 350, what could be the difference in how they stop?
Doesn't matter what the part numbers are, for either truck is the weight of the trailer greater than what the truck can safely handle. That's the question that needs to be answered - can you stop the thing coming down.
Barb
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DianneOK
Donnelly, ID
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We pulled a 15,000# fiver with a F450.......it was not enuf truck to stop that weight on a steep grade safely. Sure, it pulled it fine, but marginal stopping was not good enuf for us. We graduated to a FL60 and it was as if the fiver was not there.
I agree, if you are going to argue 250 vs 350.....go bigger, if only for piece of mind.
Dianne
Donnelly, ID
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steelpony5555
Copperas Cove Texas
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If you are trying to stop your trailer with your truck you better check your trailer brakes or get a better brake controller. Truck brakes don't stop the trailer if the trailer, which it usually does, out weighs the truck. The trailer had best to the majority of stopping itself. One of the reasons heavier 5ers have 3 axles = 6 sets of brakes along with the added weight capacity. Besides a 2500 and a 3500 have the exact same brakes and weigh pretty much the same. So your trailer had best stop itself.
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Tee Jay
Port Angeles, WA
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Some years ago we saw an elderly couple with a nice Ford truck and a large 5th coming downgrade on I90 in Montana. Truck brakes were smoking and the trailer brakes were not and they had "that look" of terror. When the weight of the trailer exceeds the weight of the truck, serious trouble can ensue. Those nasty rules of physics do apply to RVs. A body in motion tends to stay in motion. You may or may not like that motion at any given time.
There are 3 parts to towing: GO, STOP, and TURN. Modern diesels in pickups easily handle GO. STOP works fine when all the brake systems work, but gets a lot longer in distance when one of the brake systems up and quits on you. And if you tow a lot, this will happen. The TURN is interesting. If the suspension is loaded within the design limits everything should handle fine, even in evasive maneuvering.
The weight carrying range for E tires is around 3,000lbs each, a bit less for duals. That puts the max weight on the rear end at 6,000lbs for a SRW truck. It normally weighs 3,000lbs. Put a pin weight greater than 3,000lbs and you are exceeding the rated ability of the tires to handle the load. Yes, some of the load is put on the front axle, but you also have the hitch in there plus your body weights plus any other cargo.
A 2500/250 truck is usually about 7,000lbs with a GVW of around 9,000 and a combined axle capacity of 11,000lbs. A single rear wheel 3500 is in the same range with larger overload springs. Both have E tires.
There is no substitute for FACTS. Get an accurate weight for the truck and any trailer and see what you actually have. And start with the assumption that the actual pin weight on any 5'er will be 25% of the listed GVW for the 5'er because you will find a way to load that forward basement. And you always need some water for those potty stops. A 12,000lb 5'er can readily have a 3,000lb pin weight. That's why 5'ers tow so well.
Hope you enjoy it.
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DianneOK
Donnelly, ID
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Another first hand experience.....
We were coming down the grade into Landers, WY on the way to Casper with our 19,000# Teton and the FL60 (14,000#). At the worst part of the grade (8%, I think), our fiver brakes failed  ....none at all Somehow, my DH managed to get the rig stopped with only the truck's brakes and gears. The next curve would have sent us over the brink It took about 15 minutes for the brakes to cool, then we continued on down the mountain..creeping....
Ask yourself...will my truck slow and stop that fiver in a similar situation?
BTW...we discovered that the wires to the brakes were corroded. We did a fair amount of driving in ice and snow, mud, etc. and never thought about road conditions and wiring It would behoove everyone to put this on your list of preventative maintenance.
Also, we always use the gears and not the brakes, as well as entering a downgrade very slow....which is another thing that helped save us from a tragedy.
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steelpony5555
Copperas Cove Texas
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Finally someone wins the teddy bear. Steep grades you always use your tranny or prefeably a jake brake to keep your rigs speed down to a reasonable speed. Some folks drive a 20,000 lb rig like they drive the family car. You don't drive down the side of a mountain doing 60 mph. Drop you speed and drop a gear at the top and if really steep drop 2 gears.
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