hwybnb
Southern California
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Salvo wrote:I don't understand. Both ground and generator chassis are floating in an un-bonded generator. There is no electrical (hot) return path on ground. So why connect receptacle ground to generator chassis?
Sal
Sal, that is a question you will have to ask to the NEC writers. It is their rule, not mine. It is however the way Honda portable generators, and I assume all other similar generators sold in the US, are built.
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Brodie3Az
Chandler, Arizona
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No. No. No.
Think of the generator as a battery. In order to have a complete circuit you need 2 wires. The generator provides you with 3.
Ground rods are necessary when you are getting your power from you local utility company. Their wires only deliver power to your house. They use the earth to bring the power back to them, therefore the need for a ground rod or various other means of accomplishing the same thing.
As stated in an earlier post, if you ground your generator to the earth and you are not using GFCI protection, it is possible to receive an electrical shock.
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diveman52
collegeville,ca
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[NO NO NO The do not use the EARTH to bring theh power bacak. to them. Not in your wildest dreams do you know what your talking about. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
quote=Brodie3Az]No. No. No.
Think of the generator as a battery. In order to have a complete circuit you need 2 wires. The generator provides you with 3.
Ground rods are necessary when you are getting your power from you local utility company. Their wires only deliver power to your house. They use the earth to bring the power back to them, therefore the need for a ground rod or various other means of accomplishing the same thing.
As stated in an earlier post, if you ground your generator to the earth and you are not using GFCI protection, it is possible to receive an electrical shock.
37 Years in Electrical construction.
No I'm not know for being politically correct, If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck it's a dam duck!!!!!!!
Call it like it is.
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hwybnb
Southern California
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Brodie3Az wrote:Their wires only deliver power to your house. They use the earth to bring the power back to them, therefore the need for a ground rod or various other means of accomplishing the same thin I don't know whether to laugh out loud or shake my head in disbelief.
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Deus Ex Machina
Central New Jersey
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Quote:NO NO NO The do not use the EARTH to bring theh power bacak. to them. Not in your wildest dreams do you know what your talking about. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You better beleive they most certainly DO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not all the time though. It is a "cheat" that is often prohibited by ordinace in more populated areas. Running one wire a dozen miles is half the price of running two. It is commonly used in rural areas.
Every so often, the bad effects of using that method surfaces (like underground pipes in the street deteriorating from electrolysis), and the power company ends up in the evening news with egg on it's face.
So he most certainly DOES know what he's talking about. You will often see this in isolated areas, just a single hot wire along the top of the poles, and that's it.
Here is one article documenting it. It is call SWER (Single Wire Earth Return).
(Hmm, why did that laughter suddenly stop?  )
* This post was
edited 11/06/09 07:38pm by Deus Ex Machina *
Paul
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hwybnb
Southern California
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Yhe laughter did not stop, it got louder. That single-wire distribution systems MIGHT exist in a few isolated area is irrelevant. The Nation's power grid is not built on single-wire systems and grounding has nothing to do with providing an operational return path for electrical power. To say otherwise simply feeds on ignorance of and stirs the pot, as in TROLL.
If the hijacking of this thread by meaningless arguments cannot be halted it should be closed.
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smkettner
Southern California
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Deus Ex Machina wrote:So he most certainly DOES know what he's talking about. You will often see this in isolated areas, just a single hot wire along the top of the poles, and that's it.
Here is one article documenting it. It is call SWER (Single Wire Earth Return).
(Hmm, why did that laughter suddenly stop? )
Did you read the article? The system failed to work in the mid 1800s
Does it exist today? Not a chance.
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Deus Ex Machina
Central New Jersey
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smkettner wrote:Deus Ex Machina wrote:So he most certainly DOES know what he's talking about. You will often see this in isolated areas, just a single hot wire along the top of the poles, and that's it.
Here is one article documenting it. It is call SWER (Single Wire Earth Return).
(Hmm, why did that laughter suddenly stop? )
Did you read the article? The system failed to work in the mid 1800s
Does it exist today? Not a chance.
hwybnb wrote:Yhe laughter did not stop, it got louder. That single-wire distribution systems MIGHT exist in a few isolated area is irrelevant. The Nation's power grid is not built on single-wire systems and grounding has nothing to do with providing an operational return path for electrical power. To say otherwise simply feeds on ignorance of and stirs the pot, as in TROLL.
If the hijacking of this thread by meaningless arguments cannot be halted it should be closed.
Well okay, here's another link. Gee, looks like it is still in common use today!
Okay, I was only an electrician for many many years, I provided a link (skipping others thinking one would be enough). It DOES still exist. I have personally seen news reports of when it went wrong. I have personally seen the single wires on poles OFTEN. (and I'm not old enough to have lived in the 1800s)
And no, the entire grid is NOT like that. I said exactly that in my post. Why is it some people just insist with arguing with professionals just for the sake of arguing, when they are blatantly wrong? Can't admit when you are wrong? I have no problem doing that. I could post a dozen more links, but I won't waste my time for argumentative boobs.
You know, you are the people I trade posts with daily. You gave a non-professional opinion, you were countered by a professional with links to prove it. I don't want to become mortal enemies for correcting your error. Just let it go already.
And last time I looked, correcting errant information on a public forum was not classed as "trolling". I'm not going to drag this out as it is drifting off topic, however I WILL defend myself when but the previous poster and meself gave correct information with documentation and are rudely attacked for it.
The original point is, a portable generator does not need to be grounded. There is still shock potential, but it is hald that of the power grid. I think the boys at the NEC might know what they are talking about, so there is not real need for argument or interpetation.
* This post was
edited 11/06/09 09:25pm by Deus Ex Machina *
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hwybnb
Southern California
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Deus Ex Machina wrote: Why is it some people just insist with arguing with professionals just for the sake of arguing, when they are blatantly wrong? Can't admit when you are wrong? I have no problem doing that. I could post a dozen more links, but I won't waste my time for argumentative boobs. Your problem may be that you can't tell when you are arguing with another (assuming you are one) professional. You (giving the benefit of doubt) know that your argument is specious and irrelevant, so what is YOUR agenda, other than to play the troll?
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smkettner
Southern California
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Deus Ex Machina wrote:Well okay, here's another link. Gee, looks like it is still in common use today!
Common use is stretching it rather far. It is against the NEC according to the Wikipedia article except by special consideration and exemption. At some point it would appear a system was installed in extremly remote areas of Alaska where the only alternative was local diesel generators.
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