Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Class C Motorhomes: Wandering Nightmare
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Class C Motorhomes

Open Roads Forum  >  Class C Motorhomes  >  All

 > Wandering Nightmare

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 12  
Prev  |  Next
gotsmart

a bit too late though

Senior Member

Joined: 02/20/2012

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 06/04/13 02:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

from this link:
gotsmart wrote:

On June 30, 2011 I had the CampingWorld in Wilsonville, OR install a Roadmaster Front Anti-Sway Bar on my 2004 E450, part # 1139-115. It has a 1 3/8 inch diameter.

I had them install this CW rear tac bar. It is a SuperSteer SS450. Since I flat tow a car, it takes the tail wag out of the rear end.

I also had them install a Safe-T-Plus Steering Control # 31-140. More info here. It replaced a leaking OE steering damper.

All 3 parts were specifically recommended by CW Wilsonville's Performance Specialist. I am very pleased with the improvement in handling from all 3 of the upgrades.

I don't know why he chose the SuperSteer for the trac bar, but I have no complaints about its performance at all.


2005 Cruise America 28R (Four Winds 28R) on a 2004 Ford E450 SD 6.8L V10 4R100
2009 smart fortwo Passion with Roadmaster "Falcon 2" towbar & tail light kit - pictures

j-d

Sunny Florida USA

Senior Member

Joined: 09/04/2003

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 06/04/13 03:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

SuperSteer (painted blue) is a product of Henderson's Lineup. The BlueOx TigerTrak (black) is the same bar, different color, only slightly different part numbers. I believe Brazel's track bar is also the same bar in red.

I considered Roadmaster and Hellwig for Sway Bars. Hellwig, from SDTruckSprings, is about half the Roadmaster price from the outlets that carry Roadmaster. The Hellwig rear bar does NOT require drilling. I compared it with Roadmaster and actually prefer the design and installation of the Hellwig. The Roadmaster front bar has a more elegant end link bracket setup than the Hellwig. Prettier. For the lower price, I went Hellwig, and it has not worked loose.
Both bars have the same spec for the steel they're fabbed from, and both use the same diameters, which are 1-3/8" Front and 1-1/2" Rear. A coach with a set of either brand bars will handle and track better on the road. It will ALSO sit steadier on the campsite. I was not expecting that improvement and it just jumped out at me the first time I got on the Kwikee step.


If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

ron.dittmer

North-East Illinois

Senior Member

Joined: 02/26/2007

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 06/04/13 08:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have Roadmaster stabilizer bars, rear Henderson trac bar, Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer, and Koni-RV shocks adjusted to the stiffest setting. They all work great together, offering handling like an SUV.

I learned a lot long after my experience, including that I could have saved a lot of money going with Helwig stabilizer bars, and also installed most everything myself. But 6 years ago it was not a topic of discussion on this forum.


2007 Phoenix Cruiser model 2350, with 2006 Jeep Liberty in-tow

j-d

Sunny Florida USA

Senior Member

Joined: 09/04/2003

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 06/04/13 08:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My sway bar installations were very easy. I didn't need a helper for either one. The track bar was more difficult. The crossbar is simple enough. It's like a tractor "top link", steel bar with threaded length adjustment and a Heim joint on either end. The axle end isn't tricky at all. The cleverness is in the clamping arrangement that goes onto the driver side frame rail. Installing that was a little touchy. I did it in connection with my Dually Valves, so I had the wheels off and rear end raised on jack stands a few inches. BlueOx's suspension specialist gave me a couple tips.
I'm fortunate to have a pretty good tool collection thanks to the days we maintained church busses. That and a concrete parking pad for the coach.

Harvard

51.6N 114.7W

Senior Member

Joined: 12/24/2005

View Profile



Posted: 06/05/13 07:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

karldavidson wrote:



I will get the alignment record tomorrow ...... ......

Karl Davidson


[emoticon]





JJCruiser

Central Illinois

New Member

Joined: 06/09/2013

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 06/09/13 05:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This topic has been very helpful. We got a very good deal on a 2007 Phoenix Cruiser 2350 last fall, so we upgraded from our 1987 Xplorer class B that we had for many years. We like the extra room and all the features that our new RV has. We took our first trip this spring with the car in tow (2013 CRV AWD). The toad definitely impacted the driving experience, especially the occasional surprise when passed by a big rig. I have been learning a lot reading this forum and am glad to know there are enhancements that I can make to improve the driving performance. I have already added the Safe-T-Plus and have the rear trac and sway bar on order. I am going to attempt to install them myself - wish me luck. Thanks for all the useful information.

ron.dittmer

North-East Illinois

Senior Member

Joined: 02/26/2007

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 06/09/13 08:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JJCruiser wrote:

This topic has been very helpful...
We got a very good deal on a 2007 Phoenix Cruiser 2350 last fall...
The toad definitely impacted the driving experience, especially the occasional surprise when passed by a big rig...
glad to know there are enhancements that I can make to improve the driving performance...
I have already added the Safe-T-Plus and have the rear trac and sway bar on order. I am going to attempt to install them myself...
You have the same 2007 Phoenix Cruiser 2350 we have. Does your 2007 have a slide out? Ours does not.

As with your experience towing, our Jeep Liberty did similar things before our suspension upgrades. You will love your improvements. The question is whether they will be enough. When done, be sure to get a wheel alignment with the rig fully loaded as if on a trip. That would be essential.

The 2007 E350 and older chassis never included a rear sway bar from Ford so adding a heavy duty one in back will be a dramatic improvement all by itself. I personally recommend a front one too because the stock Ford one you have today is a wimp, the same installed on an E150 van. It is better than nothing, but much less effective than a heavy duty version.

I recalled an interference problem during installation when combining our rear Henderson trac bar and rear Roadmaster sway bar. The shop that installed them casually mentioned it. They were able to resolve it, I think with a new/different mounting bracket from Roadmaster or Henderson.. If installing both those specific items, watch for that. I wish I could offer better information.

For the record, we had this done by a shop in 2007 for $3900
- Added a rear heavy duty Roadmaster stabilizer bar
- Replaced the Ford front stabilizer bar with a heavy duty Roadmaster
- Added a rear Henderson trac bar
- Replaced the Ford front steering damper with a Safe-T-Plus
- Replaced the 4 Ford shocks with adjustable Koni-RVs, set to stiffest
- Had a front end alignment with the rig loaded up as if on a trip

People don't believe me when I say...
Whether towing or not, our PC2350 handles like an SUV. It truly handles beautiful.

I think some of the handling variances between RV manufactures has to do with the shape and profile of the motor home. All PCs regardless of model are very aerodynamic. People with longer model PCs with less dramatic wheel base ratios don't need anything. The 2350 has a poor wheel base to rear overhang ratio, as does the 2100 and 2400. And being on the E350 makes that worse yet. The 2551 and longer are all on an E450 with a much better wheelbase ratio. Those owners don't complain. The worst complainers are owners of the PC 2100, 2350, and 2400 built on an E350 chassis made before 2008. That is until they take action like I did and you are now.

JJCruiser, feel free to email me direct if you want to discuss off-line, especially if we are sharing installation pics and such.

* This post was last edited 06/09/13 11:51pm by ron.dittmer *   View edit history

j-d

Sunny Florida USA

Senior Member

Joined: 09/04/2003

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 06/10/13 07:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

WE NEED A STICKY! Ron and others have patiently recited the story time and again. I believe his alignment required "offset bushings" like this
[image]
to get the caster/camber within spec when the chassis is pretty much fully loaded all the time with the weight of the coach body.
Look at the pic and you'll see the center hole isn't centered on the outside shell. OEM bushings are centered. The pic is from INGALLS, who also offers adjustable offset bushings, and for not much more money. I pictured the non adjustable just for simplicity of explanation. I would actually buy their 59400 adjustable bushings. gOOgle that and you'll see a photo also.
As Ron says, get it aligned as loaded for travel. And as Harvard (who's put lots of thought and effort into alignment) says, have the CASTER set toward the HIGH end of the Positive Range, not the middle as most shops will do.
When I added the Hellwig rear sway bar, then the Blue Ox (same as Henderson) track bar, I was concerned about the install of the track bar. Suggestion I got was "Be sure it's against the Cross Member." That member is the one between Axle and Fuel Tank. As I recall, the frame rail (driver side, where the upper end of the Track Bar attaches) is not completely straight, flat, something like that. To get it to the crossmember, I had to drive it with a hand sledge. Doing that got it maybe 1/4" and surely less than 1/2" closer. I did not have any interference issues with the Blue Ox track and the Hellwig sway bars, as delivered. No special order parts.
We have an OP here who installed a track bar and had interference with the rear cover on his differential. He took it off and didn't sound like he planned to reinstall. Would probably like to sell it. We never got into details about the install or how the problem showed itself.
My guess, and only a guess, you won't have interference. But I was doing the "early" E-450.

* This post was edited 06/10/13 08:24am by j-d *

JJCruiser

Central Illinois

New Member

Joined: 06/09/2013

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 06/10/13 04:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks to Ron and j-d for all the valuable information, very much appreciated!

Based on what I have done and read so far, I believe this is the plan of attack:
-Safe-T-Plus Done - easy installation
-Rear Trac Bar (SuperSteer) Ordered and on its way
-RoadMaster Rear Sway Bar Ordered and on its way

I plan to install the Rear Trac Bar first as I may have more freedom to adjust the Sway Bar front or back if I run into any interference issues. Plus it may be helpful to not have the sway bar in the way as it appears the trac bar is going to be a challenge to install.

I also saw a post yesterday evening related to the RoadMaster Quiet Hitch. I have some side to side movement between my hitch and the Blue Ox tow bar which can't be helping things. The Quiet Hitch appears to be a clever solution. I have that on order as well.

Next will likely be the alignment. I will need to do some research on a good shop here in central Illinois that has the equipment to do a good job. I will not be able to do that on my own and I want to find someone that has experience. Thanks for the advice on having the weight in the rig as if I were loaded for a trip, I would not have thought of that.

Once I get to this point I will need to decide on the front sway bar and shocks. One good thing about doing this a step at a time, I can get a feel for what each improvement has done for the handling.

Ron - I am curious how much air pressure you run in your tires on your Phoenix Cruiser. I believe the label on mine states 60PSI front and 65PSI back (I may have that backwards). I have been running 65PSI all around. Regarding your question on the slide out - my rig does not have one either. We have the couch inside but I did install a bigger table as the original was a little small for the 3 of us (wife, daughter and me).

Thanks again to Ron and j-d. I have learned a lot from your posts!

j-d

Sunny Florida USA

Senior Member

Joined: 09/04/2003

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 06/10/13 05:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If you're using Quiet Hitch to stabilize a Tow Bar, I'm sure you will be fine. As I recall, the QH is a square-cornered U-Bolt with a stiff bar to tighten the nuts against. Blue Ox has a similar one AND another that pinches up/down and across. I'd want that one to stabilize the hitch for a heavy trailer.
I was blessed to talk with Eric Davis, founder of Eric's RV, and known for designing the Davis Tru-Trac FRONT track bars for Class A. But he's an all-around RV suspension/handling specialist like the Hendersons, Brazzel, the shop Ron mentions etc. I digress... Eric warned me that as much as half an inch of play in a towbar setup can let the toad try to bump-steer the rear of the RV. So you're ahead of the game using a QH, especially if you need a drop hitch to get a level towbar.
You may be close enough to Ron to consider the alignment shop he used.

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 12  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Class C Motorhomes  >  All

 > Wandering Nightmare
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Class C Motorhomes


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2022 CWI, Inc. © 2022 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.