E-450 alignment!!!

[Toot_Mc]

I know the topic has been beat to death...!!! Several weeks ago someone posted a place in Houston that aligns rev's and did a good job on there E-450. I took the name of alignment folks down but I have lost same. I want to order 3er party bushings and try to get my coach to stop wondering around in the wind so much.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Driving from Houston to Amerillo a couple of weeks ago with wind gust to 30 made me believe I needed a little help. front end felt like it was on ice..!! Haha wasn't funny at the time.

[Sam_Spade]

j-d wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:
Do a search on here for "camber"

Word to look for is CASTER. Related to Camber but Caster will give more results.

Oops. Brain cramp.
Thanks for the correction.

[j-d]

Sam Spade wrote:
Do a search on here for "camber"

Word to look for is CASTER. Related to Camber but Caster will give more results.

[Sam_Spade]

l19drvr wrote:
Interesting posts.

In their defense, they probably don't do much motorhome work and the E350/450 doesn't really qualify as a "big truck".

Do a search on here for "camber" and when you find the description of the "fix" that includes the parts required, print it out see what shop will do it for you.

This MUST be a shop that has an alignment bay big enough to get your rig in to actually measure the alignment parameters.

The first shop I went to told me I needed a complete front end rebuild to the tune of about $1500......after two other shops told me the front end parts were fine. The second shop got the parts and did the work......for about $200 IIRC. The change was significant.

[j-d]

l19drvr wrote:
Interesting posts. I've been told by two big truck alignment centers in the Atlanta area that the only way to change Caster on my 2016 Aspect was to bend the frame. I sure hate to have to drive to Henderson's in Oregon to correct my problem.

L19drvr
2016 Aspect

RV Builders use Model Names different ways over the years. But

IF
IF
IF
IF

This Aspect is on a Ford E350 or E450 chassis,

THOSE SHOPS ARE WRONG!!!

Sadly, many shops do a "toe and go" on Twin I-Beam Fords, when in fact the adjustable upper ball joint bushings like Ingalls 59400, and other brands, BTW, allow easy adjustment. A truly good truck alignment shop has a large assortment of fixed bushings that they can choose from to get the desired results.

Very possibly the shop doesn't want to fool with a Ford, let alone an RV on Ford. I say that because as a group we RVers are fussy, hard to please, about our rigs. I've been told it's harder work to align a Ford Van than an 18-wheeler tractor.

If you want Hendersons' advice, just call or email. They have a list of shops they've worked with, that think the way they do, and there's likely one relatively close to you.

[l19drvr]

Interesting posts. I've been told by two big truck alignment centers in the Atlanta area that the only way to change Caster on my 2016 Aspect was to bend the frame. I sure hate to have to drive to Henderson's in Oregon to correct my problem.

L19drvr
2016 Aspect

[Harvard]

pnichols wrote:
Harvard,

Yep ... that Ingalls part appears, shapewise, to be for accomplishing the same thing as the part that my RV shop installed - except that the part my mechanic installed was not nearly as long/tall as the Ingalls part. My part was just a very thick beveled washer type part, perhaps only 3/8" - 1/2" on the thick edge of the beveled washer.

Sounds like they installed a fixed non adjustable one piece collar, the Ingalls 594 are two pieces that rotate for various (infinitely adjustable from -2.0 to +2.0 caster and camber) settings. The neutral caster position is about +3.0 so you add +2.0 to have a total of + 5.0 degrees of caster.

Did you happen to get an alignment report?

[pnichols]

Harvard,

Yep ... that Ingalls part appears, shapewise, to be for accomplishing the same thing as the part that my RV shop installed - except that the part my mechanic installed was not nearly as long/tall as the Ingalls part. My part was just a very thick beveled washer type part, perhaps only 3/8" - 1/2" on the thick edge of the beveled washer.

[Sam_Spade]

pnichols wrote:
then it's a mystery to me why our E450 steered the same before and after installation of the beveled shims/bushings.

Not every 350/450 ever made had that problem.

It depends on the design of the coach, weight load on the front, tire design AND on the sensitivity of the driver.

Mine was a LOT worse at certain speeds. Didn't notice it much until above 50 MPH. The fix made a world of difference.

[Harvard]

Picture of Ingalls 59400 Concentrics

[pnichols]

Maybe what our shop called "shims" was what you're calling "bushings"?

Is changing these bushings that you're referring to on Ford Twin I-Beam suspensions what's required to adjust the Caster?

If the above is the case, such that our shop was in fact installing those beveled shims or bushings to adjust Caster ... then it's a mystery to me why our E450 steered the same before and after installation of the beveled shims/bushings.

[j-d]

Anytime I've heard of aligning 1992 and later, all the way to 2017, E-350/450, it's been concentric bushings. The earlier E-Series with Twin-I-Beam like 1975-1991, used Kingpins, not Ball Joints, and I think there was a beveled part that allowed a slight "twist" in how the axle itself was oriented. I've heard of them referred to as "Plates" but not "Shims." A typical double wishbone suspension uses Shims on the Upper Control Arm to change the position of the upper ball joint. But on Twin-I-Beam with Ball Joints, The Bushing changes the position of the upper ball joint.

Would love to see a pic of those beveled parts!

[pnichols]

Are "sleeves" and "shims" the same thing with regards to E450 alignment? If not, what's the different functions of the two in Ford Twin I-Beam suspension systems?

The first time we had our E450 aligned at our mechanic's shop (a commercial truck shop) was several years after we had bought it new, and even then there were no issues with it wandering when going down the road - I had it aligned just as routine maintenance. I don't know if during manufacture Winnebago had the chassis aligned or if we were just lucky with no wandering right from the start.

However, when our truck shop did align it they said that it needed some shims installed, and they brought the shims out to show me what they were (they looked like heavy steel beveled washers - thicker on one side than the other). I had them do it and it still steers excellent with no wandering (the same as when it was new) - one hand on the wheel is all that's required, except in cross-winds or when big trucks pass us.

Another related question is - are these shims, then, what's required to adjust Caster on Ford E350/E450 Twin I-Beam front suspensions?

[Sam_Spade]

crasster wrote:
One other thing that can help with some of the control is lower the tire pressure by 5psi. It can make a surprising difference.

This is NOT good advice if your starting point is the manufacturers recommended pressures or a calculated pressure based on an actual weight measurement.

It might be OK if your starting point is the MAX shown on the sidewall.......but then the right pressure might be MORE than 5 PSI below that.

You should never purposely run your tire pressure below what is recommended. AND you should not blindly run it at what the sidewall says either.

[crasster]

One other thing that can help with some of the control is lower the tire pressure by 5psi. It can make a surprising difference. However, if there was a lot of wind, your coach is a sail and it will push no matter what you do.