Sam was out maneuvered or out gunned

[BCSnob]

When my 4am alarm woke me up I could hear Sam barking non-stop in the field. He does this sometimes when he is unsure of what is "out there" in the dark while he is by his sheep.

When I headed out of the house, Sam darted out of the barnyard on high alert. I then noticed there were just a few sheep (some of the remaining lambs to go to market) in the barnyard. Where were the rest of the market lambs? I headed out into the dark on our Kubota RVT900 with all its flood lights on. Yep, not all the sheep were in the barnyard. Raced up the field to where I could see glowing eyes. The main flock was on the other side of the fence in the field where we put them and the missing market lambs were on the fence next to the main flock. I spot lighted the field where the main flock was; all clear. Checked up the hill from where these sheep were; all clear. Drove back towards the barnyard along the fence line and found a dead lamb (butt and belly ripped open).

Got Nell from the house to move market lambs into barnyard; locked them in. Moved main flock to outside barnyard. I removed the lamb carcass from the field. I then left for work.

Several living market lambs were also injured, not too badly. My wife treated them after the sun came up. Sam was also injured; a small cut on his back flank.

Time to get Sam some help. We started looking for a working bred Anatolian or Anatolian cross (preferably a female).

[BCSnob]

We don't want Wendy bonded to us or our place (per say) we want her bonded to the sheep so that she will stay with them no matter what field they are in. This is where Sam comes up short; he is more bonded to the field next to the barn and may not follow the sheep when they are grazing in other fields.


"Considerations in Fenced Pasture Operations" (starting on page 16 of Livestock Guarding Dogs) has a good description of issues and training methods recommended by US Sheep Experimental Station where the USDA studies sheep breeds and working dogs for their base flock of 3,000 sheep. Our friend who is a vet did an internship at the sheep station during lambing while she was in vet school.



More e-fence line has been put up to block access to escape holes. Wendy may get some free time during the day but will mostly be on a drag until lambing (starting Feb 19th).

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

K-9 HANDLER wrote:
Maybe the autofeeders are also delaying the imprinting/ bonding of the dog to you and your place since no contact is being had at chow time either. Maybe start off by getting the bond going then slowly back off the human contact once that bond is solid and the dog is committed to his side of the fence sort o speak. Just a thought.

Mark said that Wendy was getting fed some pretty good stuff by the neighbor (steak?!) That's going to be a pretty hard habit to break, I'm afraid. I realize that some dogs are obedience-trained to not eat food that wasn't fed by the owner - but the LGDs are supposed to work autonomously. In my mind, a dog who is able to work autonomously will also have the ability to appreciate a nice tasty treat....

I always said our Cattle Dog would take a bullet for us - unless the mugger was offering grilled meat..... then we were on our own.

[K-9_HANDLER]

Def sounds like your dealing with a strong enticement to go to the neighbors which you wouldnt have to address guarding a flock out in the middle of nowhere or on a large spread with big boundaries.
I am an experienced handler who admits hes got no experience with the breed you are working with either professionally or personally. That said.
Do u think the new dog has got a strong enough mental buy in/ attachment to you and your place yet to garner free turn out? Maybe the autofeeders are also delaying the imprinting/ bonding of the dog to you and your place since no contact is being had at chow time either. Maybe start off by getting the bond going then slowly back off the human contact once that bond is solid and the dog is committed to his side of the fence sort o speak. Just a thought.

[BCSnob]

Wendy has been off her tire drag for a few days and was being neighborly again. She dug under a different fence line. We will likely be expanding the coverage of the e-fence. There is an alternative means shepherds use to prevent LGDs from escaping fenced fields: a yoke. However, a yoke will likely prevent the LGDs from being able to access their auto feeders in the barn which is why we didn't try a yoke first.


Photo of a yoke from a LGD website

[BCSnob]

The tubes are thin enough to be bent by cattle rubbing on them.

[K-9_HANDLER]

I know what you mean I have a couple of those mesh gates and the mesh is just tack welded on.

[BCSnob]

The older gates are being replaced with the galvanized version of these:



Except for gates that our neighbor's cattle can touch or pens where we pack with sheep; the wire filled gates are not heavy duty.

All the newer fence lines have a hot line on top; the older fences around the farm do not have electric available (yet).

[K-9_HANDLER]

That fence looks spot on! Nice work. wow shimmying thru the tubes now thats something u dont see everyday, lol. If you need to you can cut some scrap wire pieces to the length desired and wrap them around tape with long ends dangling into hole. Kinda like electrified fingers hanging down anyone sticks a head in there they'll feel it. I do that over creeks that the fence crosses.

[BCSnob]

Besides digging under, Sam also oozes through tube gates.

These



He puts his front feet between two tubes halfway up a gate, turns his body sideways, and pushes off the bottom tube with his hind feet to slide through.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

OK - now I see what you're dealing with - you DO have dog-proof fencing (until they go under it....LOL!)

[BCSnob]

CA POPPY wrote:
Sounds like Wendy doesn't yet understand that she has a job. Are female dogs harder to train for this?

Wendy would be able to hear Sam barking (an alarm) from our neighbor's yard and I'd expect she would return quickly; she will not hear or return to help Sam if she is inside. My preference would have been for our neighbor to run Wendy off if/when she shows up at their house (she is quite soft to verbal corrections); but our neighbor will not do this.

Sam (and we expect Wendy as well) does very little roaming once we start lambing.

[BCSnob]

We already have a portable solar fence charger (had been in use in barnyard) and several step in posts; $35 for a spool of tape, connectors, and a few more posts wasn't too bad.



She has been working on expanding the access hole that Sam had. Ultimately I'd like them to be able to use this hole so they can protect the not bred ewes on the other side of this fence. For now, the not bred ewe lambs will be secured in the barnyard at night.

[CA_POPPY]

Sounds like Wendy doesn't yet understand that she has a job. Are female dogs harder to train for this?

[K-9_HANDLER]

Another option is electric tape with push in posts. Can also run a jumper electric strand at base of gates with quick takedown handle at one end. I do the push ins for field rotation and keeping them out of stream and stream buffer in season. The wide strand also gives the stock a nice visual boundry. My dogs dont mess with this setup either. Keeps your fence noncommital on leased land to. Just an idea. Would your fence have to cross any water?
I hear you on the labor. Trimmming is the one thing about my high tensile fence lines that is intensive even with a large fence charger. My kids have got some popeye sized forearms as a result of this. The push ins just get moved a foot or so then mowed.