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Factory GM Brake Controllers

4Fielders
Explorer
Explorer
We recently upgraded our TV and it appears I no longer need my trusty Prodigy brake controller. I have not yet pulled our trailer with the new truck and was curious what everyone's experience was the GM factory brake controllers. Our trailer is roughly 8500# loaded. What settings do you use? Any adjustment tricks? This is all new to me and appreciate any guidance you can offer.

2016 2500HD Silverado LTZ Z71Duramax/Allison
2002 K2500 Suburban LT 6.0L
1995 Holiday Rambler Aluma-Lite 31CFS
Prodigy
Reese Dual Cam Sway Control bars
2 friction sway bars
1 wife, 1 daughter '95, 1 son '98



ACTS 2:37-38

23 REPLIES 23

BenK
Explorer
Explorer
Repeat below the images showing how MC PSI is developed over time, over brake pedal stroke

Unless trailer brake controller also an inertia (accelerometer), the trailer brakes will NOT be turned on as soon as my P3 will

Because my P3 is turned on with the brake pedal light switch and is before the MC ever develops any PSI

Meaning my trailer brakes will have power sent to it before any MC PSI based controller will. Makes no matter highly integrated or after market

Add that there are both min PSI before it will trip and hysteresis in most of the PSI sensors I've ever reviewed and used in my brake designs. Wonder what these Highly Integrated trailer brake systems have as their min PSI trip and what their hysteresis is (hysteresis is the incline of ramp both in turning on and turning off)

For those who do not know HOW2 read these two graphs...the vertical axis is the amount of PSI being developed by the MC and the horizontal axis is the brake pedal to MC piston stroke (one in distance...other in time)

Sensing brake pedal light switch will have it switch on BEFORE it ever touches the MC piston on my setup and is the way GM has designed its brake light switch.

This is how my P3 leads the trailer brakes BEFORE any MC PSI sensed system. Even the newest one which sense vehicle network information...unless that too has an accelerometer and also senses brake pedal light switch

Bottom line is you, the individual decide which is best for you, or that you like best. I'm just defending with actual information for those on the fence looking for information for their decision

BenK wrote:

snip...


Here are a couple curves showing graphically what am talking about


Rod stroke vs wheel brake PSI...this curve shows the brake pedal to MC rod travel distance vs PSI developed


Brake system PSI over time or vs TV brake pedal stroke

Pascal's Law (hydraulic pressure ratio) showing why the MC piston stroke must be much longer before the brake caliper/cylinder even moves enough to press the friction material hard enough onto the cast iron to create braking friction


-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
deltabravo wrote:


I had a BrakeSmart in my 2002 2500HD. It was far superior to the intertia controller it replaced, because like an ITBC, it sensed hydraulic pressure and applied trailer brakes in complete unison with truck brakes. I kick myself for not removing the pressure transducer from the truck when I traded it it. I'd love to still use the BrakeSmart on my other tow rig.


I removed my Brakesmart when I traded. It is still on a shelf in the garage and I will keep it just in case it is ever needed. Nothing else even comes close.

You can buy a transducer from an industrial supplier. If you want, I'll get the numbers off of mine.

deltabravo
Nomad
Nomad
ktmrfs wrote:
my 2015 gmc factory unit performs way better than my prodigy ever did on my 04 GMC.


Ditto. I have the ITBC on my 09 Silverado. It is far better than the aftermarket "intertia" type brake controller.

The benefit of the ITBC is it applies the trailer brakes in complete unison with the truck brakes. There's no delay. With an inertia based controller, there is a very slight delay. The heavier the trailer, the more likely you are to notice it the delay.

The heavier the trailer, the more beneficial an ITBC is.

There used to be several "smart" brake controllers that pre-dated the ITBC of today. They were the Jordan and BrakeSmart. Later there was the Masterbrake.

I had a BrakeSmart in my 2002 2500HD. It was far superior to the intertia controller it replaced, because like an ITBC, it sensed hydraulic pressure and applied trailer brakes in complete unison with truck brakes. I kick myself for not removing the pressure transducer from the truck when I traded it it. I'd love to still use the BrakeSmart on my other tow rig.
2009 Silverado 3500HD Dually, D/A, CCLB 4x4 (bought new 8/30/09)
2018 Arctic Fox 992 with an Onan 2500i "quiet" model generator

christopherglen
Explorer
Explorer
I do a test pull with the IBC in my 16 Silverado before trips. Set it to max gain, and squeeze the tabs together at about 25 (residential street). Just about plants your face in the steering wheel. 18k fusion 405 5th wheel TH.
Sounds like a setup issue - if switching controllers fixed it.
2007 Chevrolet 3500 CC/LB Duramax/Dually 4X4 Mine r4tech, Reese Signature Series 18k +slider, duratrac, Titan 62 gallon, diamond eye, Cheetah 64
2011 Keystone Fusion 405 TrailAir & Triglide, Centerpoint, gen-turi, 3 PVX-840T, XANTREX FREEDOM SW3012, G614

Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
Beer Belly wrote:
I've had one situation where I had to slow quickly to make a turn that came up on me, and I can tell you, this one experience taught me that the IBC in my GMC Sierra is not as in tuned as my Prodigy P2....the darn truck could barely make the turn with me on the brake, and the camper pushing. I didn't think making this turn would be an issue, as I have done it before with the P2 and never felt the camper pushing. Lesson learned.....keep going and find a spot to turn around and loop back.


You didn't learn, you need to adjust the controller or service the brakes.

Beer_Belly
Explorer
Explorer
I've had one situation where I had to slow quickly to make a turn that came up on me, and I can tell you, this one experience taught me that the IBC in my GMC Sierra is not as in tuned as my Prodigy P2....the darn truck could barely make the turn with me on the brake, and the camper pushing. I didn't think making this turn would be an issue, as I have done it before with the P2 and never felt the camper pushing. Lesson learned.....keep going and find a spot to turn around and loop back.
*Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming - "WOW, What a ride!"

BenK
Explorer
Explorer
Instead of continuing a dialogue on this via PMs asking about my comments from past posts on this topic, here are the answers to your questions...

Master Cylinder pressure sensed brake controllers (several after market have gone out of business and repeat I'll not touch my TV's brake hydraulic system for anything like this) has the trailer brakes lead the TV's brakes because of the PSI build up ramp.

Meaning that the brake pedal stroke has the MC PSI build up over the distance of that pedal rod stroke (there is time curve on that too). The TV's brakes won't be doing anything till a min level of braking system hydraulic pressure is attained....but if the IBC senses MC PSI and is set to 'sense' a lower PSI...it will turn on the trailer brake controller before the TV starts to brake.

Once the MC Pressure builds to the point that the TV's friction materials PSI is high enough for them to create friction on the cast iron (get into the braking game)...the trailer brakes has already been braking. Of course this requires that the trailer brakes and wiring are in good order


Here are a couple curves showing graphically what am talking about


Rod stroke vs wheel brake PSI...this curve shows the brake pedal to MC rod travel distance vs PSI developed


Brake system PSI over time or vs TV brake pedal stroke

Pascal's Law (hydraulic pressure ratio) showing why the MC piston stroke must be much longer before the brake caliper/cylinder even moves enough to press the friction material hard enough onto the cast iron to create braking friction




That is the 'seamless' comments vs my comments that most folks who complain about their after market trailer brake controllers 'buck', 'bang', etc does NOT have their system set up correctly



While the accelerometor sensed (P2/3) relies on the deceleration of brake controller sensor *AFTER* it has been turned on

Meaning that they sense the TV brake pedal light switch and a properly setup brake pedal switch will turn on the P2/P3 *BEFORE* there is ever any MC pressure generated (turns on the P2/P3 before the IBC will turn on)

Really boils down to how closely your TV brake pedal switch can be or is setup vs brake pedal movement.

GM has a nifty switch that senses (trips my P3 on) with less than 1/64" movement of my brake pedal and about 1/16" before the MC piston rod engages to *START* developing MC PSI...

Not saying the P2/P3 are better for EVERYONE, just me...and again, I'll not touch my braking hydraulic system...nor do I like 'HIGHLY INTEGRATED ANYTHING' for my vehicles...
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

ktmrfs
Explorer
Explorer
hawkeye-08 wrote:
My 2011 GMC 2500HD IBC works great. I have it set to 4-4.5 and pull a 10,000lb travel trailer. With our previous trailer and P3 controller, it worked well also.

The only problem that I have had with IBC is on one trip, I had to pull over and reseat the plug (trailer cord into truck). It seems to be sensitive to that connection for some. It only happened to me once and has never had any other issues.

If something fails that causes the IBC to no longer work, I would be comfortable using the P3.


I also pull close to 10,000 lbs and the setting of between 4 and 5 is where I'm at as well.
2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!

sayoung
Explorer
Explorer
I haved towed with my 2012 some pretty heavy loads on a gooseneck trailer and never a problem with the GM controller .

csjag1
Explorer
Explorer
I pull a 9,800 (or so) 38" Grand Design with a 2016 Silverado with the factory brake controller. Starting at 1, I set the controller to enable smooth stops. I found that a setting of 4.5 works perfectly on mine.

Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
I like a controller that is integrated with my foot like the factory controllers. Those that rely on your ability to slow down to activate never made sense to me. Having brakes respond to foot pressure on the pedal should make the OP happy. There might be folks that think that they should feel the trailer yanking them to a stop instead of an almost seamless braking action.

BenK
Explorer
Explorer
NJRVer wrote:
Just hope part of the "system" doesn't go bad because then the whole integrated controller shuts down.

Had that happen to mine in July '16. The part wasn't available to fix it so I had to wire in an aftermarket controller in order to tow.
The dealer did finally call me the beginning of Jan. '17 to tell me they had the part now if I wanted to bring my truck back in to have them fix it.:R


Thank you for the feedback...not enough understand that going "highly integrated" is a nightmare to diag (they usually just replace module after module) and a simple thing can bring the whole system to its knees...not drivable or worst case...dangerous to drive
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

hawkeye-08
Explorer II
Explorer II
My 2011 GMC 2500HD IBC works great. I have it set to 4-4.5 and pull a 10,000lb travel trailer. With our previous trailer and P3 controller, it worked well also.

The only problem that I have had with IBC is on one trip, I had to pull over and reseat the plug (trailer cord into truck). It seems to be sensitive to that connection for some. It only happened to me once and has never had any other issues.

If something fails that causes the IBC to no longer work, I would be comfortable using the P3.

APT
Explorer
Explorer
The adjustment of every proportional brake controller including the vehicle manufacturer designs vary based on the type, size, and condition of each trailer. The procedure outlined in the vehicle owner's manual accounts for this.
A & A parents of DD 2005, DS1 2007, DS2 2009
2011 Suburban 2500 6.0L 3.73 pulling 2011 Heartland North Trail 28BRS
2017 Subaru Outback 3.6R
2x 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV (Gray and Black Twins)