RV manufacturers, I am calling you out

[js6343js6343]

I purchased a travel trailer 6 years ago. I am going to say something many of you out there already know: something I know will be controversial, and is seldom said. These RVs are stinking piles of garbage. Brand new off the lot, they are junk. And I will never buy one again.

Below is my personal story of a long series of mechanical failures we have experienced, starting from the very first year of our purchase:

Pealed wall paper.
Detached and shrunk interior trim.
Separated and cracked interior laminate.
Failed sliding door hardware
Failed gas springs – bed chest.
Failed antenna hardware.
Fuse box cover latch snapped off.
Yellowed and cracked exterior vents and porch lights.
An outdoor refrigerator that cannot reliably maintain temperature, because it resides in space that is not vented.
Awning motor failure resulting in awning separation from the camper while in transit.
A second awning motor failure (pending current repair)
A slide out that repeatedly sticks and requires manually intervention despite proper silicone lubrication.
Exterior water heater switch failure.
Interior switches that stick and don’t reset to neutral position.
Wheel chrome separation from the aluminum.
Air conditioner that leaks into the cabin.
EZ lube axles that leak around the seals and into the brakes.
EPDM membrane that as far as I can tell was not glued, resulting in a complete separation from the roof and massive billowing. (pending current repair)

The above is just what I remember. Likely there are more.

I know there are those will assert my experience is result of improper or lack of maintenance. I cannot (in a forum) prove otherwise, other than to claim that although I am no RV expert, I am a fairly handy amateur mechanic. From the day I bought this unit, I have endeavored to maintain all its systems the best I could. And twice every year I spend days in preventative maintenance. Repairs add to the burden.

I wonder what the outcome is for those who are not handy or don’t desire the investment in time and money required to keep these units operating? How many of these units are destined to overwhelm their owners and not so gradually left to sit and finally decay? Possibly well before the final payment is due. The emotional toll and cost to the owner has eclipsed the fun to be gained.

The marketing strategy from the industry is obvious. The units are pretty, flashy and they have so many cool things! But the primary goal is to move them off the lot. As many of them as possible. At the lowest cost possible, and quality is an afterthought. And there are many in the target market who don’t know it (initially myself included). But I believe this strategy is misguided. How many times on this forum have you seen posts from individuals looking for input on quality? Who is the best manufacture? Where can I find the best quality? My answer to those posts today would be: save your breath. As far as I can tell 90% of these RVs are made from the same materials and the same labor. My chief objection to the above strategy is that I would have gladly spent more if I knew I was getting a unit that would last. My firm belief is that others would as well.

Maybe my expectations were warped. At the time, I could have been thinking: Since I am buying new, I’ll probably get 5 years of trouble free operation out of this before I start seeing problems. Like what you would expect out of a new car, right? Sure there will be more preventative maintenance, but I can handle that! But, these units are nothing like a car. And the 1-year warranty reflects it. By the way, just as an FYI, the 10-year warranty on the roof is not supported by the RV manufacturer. The roof warranty is on the material only and the RV manufacturer will send you to the roof maker for the claim. Good luck.

The dealers are no better. I remember our pre-delivery inspection. What a joke. In detail they cover operation of the water heater, stove, air conditioning, antenna, and winterizing. I can read a manual on how to operate a stove on my own. No mention of critical elements that matter: brake adjustments, torqueing, dry rotting of the cheapest possible tires (keep them covered), bearing maintenance, highway drift, EPDM and the dangers of EZ lube. Looking back, I am amazed they let a newbie as green as myself roll off the lot, untested, in a 36’ TT. It was flat out, unsafe. The truth is, a realistic education puts the sale in jeopardy. The dealers sell you the unit and send you on your way to learn the hard way.

I don’t enjoy the roll of the spoiler. I hate it. But this is my experience. The truth as I see it. And I feel obligated to share it as a small drop in an ocean to maybe influence a change. My advice to those in the market is, don’t. Unless you are buying something used and your expectations are not high. Or you are buying high end and money/time are not a concern. If I had it over, camping trips would be in rented cabins. There are a lot of options.

In my own personal case, we are invested. So my plan is to make the best of it. I still have a passion for camping when the trip is not punctuated by the latest mechanical failure. I pledge to create great memories for the children and enjoy the outdoors. And try not to think about my separated EPDM.

Jim

[fj12ryder]

What high road would that be? From what I've read and seen higher costs do not necessarily equate to higher quality. Seems like higher costs just mean higher costs.

We stayed at a dealer's campground when we picked up our toyhauler. He mostly sold high end motorhomes, and he had a bunch of sold new ones returned to be worked on. Several had been there for more than a week or two waiting on parts. These were multi-hundred thousand class A motorhomes.

[time2roll]

In general I keep reading more and more threads demanding the absolute low cost solution to some issue.

The manufacturers are just producing what we demand. Low price at any cost.

People should try the high road more often. The view is far better. 😉

[down_home]

If venting inspires everyone else to vent then maybe someone will respond to demands of Consumers. Currently though everything is Top Down or Trickle Down, and they have us where they want us. Cooperation of monopolies perhaps is a good term.

[DE88ROX]

bikendan wrote:
I seriously doubt that any RV manufacturer will read your post/thread.

So all you're doing is preaching to the choir.

You're right, but it always feels good to vent.

[js6343js6343]

rode2nowhere wrote:
wow he has the same camper I do,,,,,,

Hilarious!

Problem is we ALL have the same camper I do. (excluding maybe a lucky few)

Jim

[stevennlv]

Oh, I'm not saying any of this is new. To quoth the master: "There's a sucker born every minute".

But, things roll down hill and pick up speed; especially big, stinking balls of poop. I am under no illusion of any of this being new. I'm quite sure equivalent conversations were under way when the Visigoths breached the gates of Rome.

But, while being nothing new, it does seem from my own personal experience that the average Joe has become just a little dumber and a little more greedy than they used to be over the last 30 or so years.

That probably tends to happen when a culture passes a certain level of opulence and becomes so soft that any idiot can make it to 90. (The Chinese are just exploiting that fact and looking after their own self interests. I blame them no more than I blame the scorpion.)

Then comes the fires, most of the stupid die off and the rest go on.

At the rate we're going it won't be long before our own Visigoths pay us a visit.

[toedtoes]

stevennlv wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Wow! You've blamed the Chinese, the school system, the parents, and the young generation for the quality of RVs. But you let the manufacturers off the hook because they're just doing what we want...

Actually, no. I made it pretty clear that they are unscrupulous jackwagons who are taking advantage of the gestalt of the situation.

But, that is there nature.

Have you never heard the fable of the scorpion and the toad?

Do you fault the scorpion for its nature?

Or do you keep your guard up and do the best you can with your own limited resources to avoid dealing with the scorpions?

------
Edit: And I blamed pretty much everybody, not just young folks, schools and parents. I also threw in the olds farts who try to act 17 and the media.

This country is circling the drain.

In the grand scheme of things not being able to get any quality workmanship at any price point any more for just about anything you buy (including houses and RVs) is just very small reflection of much larger problems.

Well, there were so many you blamed, it was not surprising I missed a couple. 🙂

But I still think you're giving the manufacturers a get out of jail card.

When it comes to individuals, I think you are what you are (the scorpion concept). But an industry or company is not inherently one thing or another. They become what they are because the toads let the scorpions control - not because the industry IS a scorpion. The industry can be better regardless of any single individual scorpion in its midst. And that they choose to run like a scorpion is on them.

[toedtoes]

NYCgrrl wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
If this is just a recent phenomenon, how do you explain the "planned obsolescence" of the cars of the 50's and 60's and earlier of course?

In 1924 "Alfred P. Sloan Jr. suggested annual model-year design changes to convince car owners that they needed to buy a new replacement each year, an idea borrowed from the bicycle industry, though the concept is often misattributed to Sloan." Nearly one hundred years ago. Where oh where did all those "sheep" come from?

"However, I'm not really that old and I remember when "stuff" made here didn't have to compete with cheap **** from China and you *actually got what you paid for*!"

I remember the "cheap Japanese junk", i.e. transistor radios, toys, etc. that came out in 50's and 60's, and the changes they then wrought in the stagnant American auto industry.

Thank you for the industrial history lesson greatly and the awareness that this business model didn't come out of thin air. It's certainly alive and kicking in the domestic AND international kitchen appliance industry as well

My DGD went shopping for a new range with me and questioned why I was buying a manual operated appliance over one with the easy to read digital "cute" display.
Showed her some pics of me replacing a motherboard and how the previous stove didn't need much more maintenance past re-calibration and cleaning for 50 years. Hope she got the point :c:.

I've always followed my mother's advice to get the simplest tool for the job. It has worked well and I rarely have issues with quality or lack thereof.

A sibling bought a new washer and dryer and was all excited showing me everything they would do. The entire time, i'm thinking "why did you spend all that money buying all these extra cycles, etc., when all you have are jeans, t-shirts, sweats and scrubs. She'll never use 3/4 of what those machines do, but they look real fancy in her laundry room.

[NYCgrrl]

fj12ryder wrote:
If this is just a recent phenomenon, how do you explain the "planned obsolescence" of the cars of the 50's and 60's and earlier of course?

In 1924 "Alfred P. Sloan Jr. suggested annual model-year design changes to convince car owners that they needed to buy a new replacement each year, an idea borrowed from the bicycle industry, though the concept is often misattributed to Sloan." Nearly one hundred years ago. Where oh where did all those "sheep" come from?

"However, I'm not really that old and I remember when "stuff" made here didn't have to compete with cheap **** from China and you *actually got what you paid for*!"

I remember the "cheap Japanese junk", i.e. transistor radios, toys, etc. that came out in 50's and 60's, and the changes they then wrought in the stagnant American auto industry.

Thank you for the industrial history lesson greatly and the awareness that this business model didn't come out of thin air. It's certainly alive and kicking in the domestic AND international kitchen appliance industry as well

My DGD went shopping for a new range with me and questioned why I was buying a manual operated appliance over one with the easy to read digital "cute" display.
Showed her some pics of me replacing a motherboard and how the previous stove didn't need much more maintenance past re-calibration and cleaning for 50 years. Hope she got the point :c:.

[fj12ryder]

If this is just a recent phenomenon, how do you explain the "planned obsolescence" of the cars of the 50's and 60's and earlier of course?

In 1924 "Alfred P. Sloan Jr. suggested annual model-year design changes to convince car owners that they needed to buy a new replacement each year, an idea borrowed from the bicycle industry, though the concept is often misattributed to Sloan." Nearly one hundred years ago. Where oh where did all those "sheep" come from?

"However, I'm not really that old and I remember when "stuff" made here didn't have to compete with cheap **** from China and you *actually got what you paid for*!"

I remember the "cheap Japanese junk", i.e. transistor radios, toys, etc. that came out in 50's and 60's, and the changes they then wrought in the stagnant American auto industry.

[stevennlv]

NYCgrrl wrote:
Must run the phrase "gestalt of the situation" by some of my Asian relatives; they're easily amused, as am I, by globalisation.

We are here to serve, glad I could amuse you this fine morn.

You have an interesting sense of humor.

Personally I find morons crawling over each other for scraps to be detestable.

[NYCgrrl]

stevennlv wrote:
..the gestalt of the situation.

But, that is there nature.

Have you never heard the fable of the scorpion and the toad?

Do you fault the scorpion for its nature?

Or do you keep your guard up and do you the best you can with your own limited resources to avoid dealing with the scorpions?...

Must run the phrase "gestalt of the situation" by some of my Asian relatives; they're easily amused, as am I, by globalisation.

I will agree that many RV manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves as should the consumers who still buy knowing the possibility of getting a weekend mechanical hobby in addition to a mobile home.

[2edgesword]

I purchased a KZ TT back in 2012 and have put 7,000 miles on it and spent 106 nights in it over that time period with only a few minor issues that came up the first year and were taken care of by KZ.

I think an important issue in buying an RV is the support from the dealer. If the dealer does a very thorough pre-delivery check a lot of the issues I've read about can be found and eliminate before the new owner takes delivery.

I live in NY and traveled to Connecticut to purchase my trailer for All RV in East Hampton, CT. We spend three hours with the guy that prepped the RV for delivery going over every system of the RV, operating them and giving instruction about care and maintenance while my wife videoed the walk through.

The two main issues that came up during a trip to Florida were a short that developed in the running lights (crew wore through the wire insulation and shorted against the frame) and a fixture (shower drain connection) broke at some point during the trip allowing water to run into the under belly and soak the insulation. As mentioned both were fixed under warranty and we haven't had any issue since. These are things that developed as a result of travel and not things that would be uncovered during a pre-buy inspection.

When you have a complex mobile system, part vehicle part home, subject to all sorts of environmental and use conditions at some point you've going to develop issues. That is the nature of the beast. That said they shouldn't be major structural issues like cracking of the frame or suspension, A/C or appliances failing after two or three years of normal use, etc. The pumbling issue I had should never have happened (KZ said they hadn't had a similar issue prior) but in my investigating and finding the issue seemed apparent to me that that fixture was not properly supported and the fix was to replace the fixture and add additional support.

There are certain issues like basic structural integrity, failure of applicance after only a few seasons, finish durability (delamination after only a few seasons), etc. that are unforgivable in my opinion. If you're in the RV business, understand the requirements of operating in that market and how these things are used they shouldn't be built to be throw away items after five years even if they sell of $10K.

[stevennlv]

toedtoes wrote:
Wow! You've blamed the Chinese, the school system, the parents, and the young generation for the quality of RVs. But you let the manufacturers off the hook because they're just doing what we want...

Actually, no. I made it pretty clear that they are unscrupulous jackwagons who are taking advantage of the gestalt of the situation.

But, that is there nature.

Have you never heard the fable of the scorpion and the toad?

Do you fault the scorpion for its nature?

Or do you keep your guard up and do the best you can with your own limited resources to avoid dealing with the scorpions?

------
Edit: And I blamed pretty much everybody, not just young folks, schools and parents. I also threw in the olds farts who try to act 17 and the media.

This country is circling the drain.

In the grand scheme of things not being able to get any quality workmanship at any price point any more for just about anything you buy (including houses and RVs) is just very small reflection of much larger problems.