Why do Class C's always leak in the front upper bunk area?

[Likes_to_tow]

Came close to buying a new Class C late last year but instead purchased another 5th wheel. Not so much because of their tendency to leak in the front overcab area but there was some other things that made us stick to another 5th wheel. Maybe sometime in future we will get a small c.

My friend found an unbelievable deal on a used 2011 with only 3800 miles on the clock and wanted me to go look at it with him. It was in unbelievable condition for a 2011!! It had been stored under a roof mostly out of sunlight and rain. I could find nothing anywhere from top to bottom that looked questionable until I looked under the mattress in the over the cab bed. There were water stains on each end of the mattress on the bottom side. Close examination on the outside revealed water oozing out from the edge trim molding when you pushed on it. A classic example of lack of proper maintenance sealing. The owner was really shaken up by our findings and had no idea Class C's are famous for this. Now he was faced with a huge repair bill before he could sell it unless some poor unsuspecting buyer did not look under the mattress. I've notice a major change in some higher end models where the front cap is all solid fiberglass and actually wraps around the side a few inches. Looks like this would be much better than just having a piece of molding on the edges. At any rate, if you
are in the market for a used C I suggest you pull the cab over mattress and check for stains!!

[ron_dittmer]

ericsmith32 wrote:
Ours would be better if I had a shed for it.

That is so true. Every motor home would last so much longer, serving their owners so much better.

It is very rare to find any motor home that was stored indoors protected from sun/rain/snow/heat/cold, when not in-use.

[ericsmith32]

In the case of my leak was the PO that didn't read the manual. It did say in the manual specifically where to check and what products to use. They used some flexseal junk and despite my efforts took along time to get anything to stick.. eternabond, dicor or alpha. Took a wire well and patience before I could get alpha to stick. It's fixed but the damage is done.

I'm debating on fixing it or get letting it go, either way it won't be worth anything. One piece fiberglass isn't a guarantee either. My grandparents has leaked also, I don't think gpa has ever caulked a roof. Could ours been built better.. don't know.. even houses fall apart if not taken care of. Ours would be better if I had a shed for it.

[ron_dittmer]

The Waites wrote:
Ron, where does a bornfree fit in the categories you listed? We'd have to buy a 15-20 year old one so would it still be more leak proof than the average 20 yr old class C ? Thank you for your time!

I am not that familiar with a 20 year old Bornfree, but I did a quick search on a 1997 model. It appears to be an excellent choice with regards to design & construction to avoid rain water leaking problems. Make sure to inspect the rig for water damage anyway for even the best made motor home may develop a problem. If left alone it could do serious damage. Your first indicator will be how it smells inside.....fresh or musty/moldy, and beware of air fresheners used to hide the problem.

[The_Waites]

Ron, where does a bornfree fit in the categories you listed? We'd have to buy a 15-20 year old one so would it still be more leak proof than the average 20 yr old class C ? Thank you for your time!

[Desert_Captain]

Permit me to address your first question... A 2 way frig runs off of AC or gas and running the engine will have no effect on either system. You can run the V-10 for extended periods to power the dash AC or charge the batteries. This is not particularly efficient but can be done vs most diesels that should never be left to idle for extended periods.

:C

[Viajera1]

Ron.dittmar, you posted in your great long post that one could run a 350 Ford for hrs.. I just bought an Itasca 04. The fridge in not 3 way, but 2 way. would running the engine it keep the fridge cool? I know this is in the wrong thread.. not about caulk.

Second question. This RV 22' spirit 33k mi. has both back corners pulled away from the prev owner's clipping the corners. I am thinking of caulking the heck out of them to keep out the water for now while I learn to drive it and not re-mess them up. It will be $400+ each side to repair, and I would hate to do it again (!) I would add a foto but don't know how..

Caulk on roof looks great, no leaks, I guess it is the orig Dicor caulk. will get suggested caulk to do the lights and windows anyway tho.

[ron_dittmer]

Reading of other people's costs, it's running between $5000 and $7000 to get it repaired.

If only the industry would standardize with a seamless cab-over. That is why the B+ versions are popular with the educated class C shopper. Not only is it seamless where it matters most, but it doesn't move much, rendering it a much more robust reliable design.

But many people buy a class C specifically to get the extra sleeping quarters. Then they should be built like this.


Not Like This

[Mich_F]

mikethetexan wrote:

Mich F wrote:
Scary pictures

Slight thread drift, but can you give a ballpark estimate of how much a repair like this costs?

I don't have enough to worry about, and it looks like this might be something to keep me awake at night. 😉

My son says that's about a $7,000 repair. Normally the damage is no where near extensive as it was on this one. Both wings, the front wall, the bunk board and both transition walls have to be replaced.

[mikethetexan]

Mich F wrote:
Scary pictures

Slight thread drift, but can you give a ballpark estimate of how much a repair like this costs?

I don't have enough to worry about, and it looks like this might be something to keep me awake at night. 😉

[Olddud]

Likes to tow wrote:
--- I will force her to review ---

Brave man.

[winnietrey]

Ours is 17 years old now has never leaked. The big secret, is this. Unless the Dicor is lifting off the Roof. ( in which case you need to remove the Dicor and reseal that seam) Just inspect for cracks, clean those cracks with isopropyl alcohol, and refill those cracks with Dicor. Dicor sticks to Dicor. Takes like 30 min, 2x year, and is very easy

Of course you wait, soon as I post this the sucker will leak like a sieve, Karma ?

[Likes_to_tow]

ron.dittmer wrote:
Hi Likes-To-Tow,

I post this once in a while and it seems to address your initial question. It is long-winded....my apologies for that.

Ron
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New, used, or well used, when shopping for a conventional class B+ or C, the most important consideration is how it is constructed. This post outlines construction methods which are most affordable and methods that cost more, but are built to hold up much better to the elements and also the punishment of the road.

Some motor home manufactures offer different levels of quality through their various model lines. Instead of providing a list of brands to consider, it is best to identify what "Better" is.

When shopping for a motor home, don't get distracted with what I call "Eye Candy" or "Square Footage". You want to pay close attention to how the house is constructed. Water infiltration is the number one killer of motor homes, rotting them away long before anything is worn out. Once water gets inside, it is like termites. By the time you realize there is a problem, a lot of damage has already occurred. Also consider that mold & mildew can grow inside the walls which then you have a health hazard. My advise focuses on identifying a reliably well sealed motor home.

#1 BEST (Very Expensive, Can Be 1.5 times the cost of Second Best)
NO structural seam work. The brand Coach House is a fine example. It is seamless, made from a mold. The only places where water can leak is cutouts for windows, entry door, roof-top vents & a/c unit, storage compartments & maintenance access, all of which are in areas of very low stress. Because they have a seamless shell, these motor homes have a limited selection of sizes.

#2 SECOND BEST
Common, Affordable, & comes in Many Sizes so this is my main focus
I own an example of this type. My Rig Here manufactured by Phoenix USA.
Made in sections, but assembled in a way that greatly reduces the threat of water damage. Here are the good things you want to look for.

a) Structural Seams Away From Corners
When a motor home is driven, the house bounces, resonates, shakes, and leans countless times, representing a series of extended continuous earthquakes. Corner seams see greater stresses than seams located elsewhere. Corner seams are more easily split, especially when the caulk gets brittle with age & exposure to the sun. One extremely bad bump in the road can instantly breach a corner seam. Seams hold up much better when they are brought in from the corners in lesser stressed areas.

b) A Seamless Over-The-Van Front Cap
A huge bed above the van’s roof is the most vulnerable area of a motor home. No matter how well they are made, that long frontal over-hang resonates when the RV is driven. It is common for seams to split there, most troublesome with age & exposure to the elements. HERE is a more recent example, one of many I have read. The small front aerodynamic cap of a B+ design HERE eliminates the overhang which eliminates most of the resonation, along with most seam work.

There are a few conventional “C” Designs (big over-van bed) where that area is seamless. If you absolutely must have that huge bed, then look for a seamless bucket-like design. Born Free offers a seamless bucket design as seen in This Model. The Itasca Navion Here is another fine example. Some manufactures as of late offer a partial bucket design with fewer seams located in less-stressed areas. Some manufacture models like the Minnie Winnie and the Nexus Phantom utilize a compromising partial bucket design, making it a better choice compared to a fully seamed cab-over bed.

If you plan to accommodate more than 2 people, having that large extra cab-over bed will be extremely useful.

c) A Crowned Roof
Rain and snow melt runs off a crowned roof. A flat roof will sag over time, then water puddles around heavy roof-top items like the a/c unit. Water eventually finds it's way inside after gaskets & caulk have degraded from age, sun, and change in seasons.

d) Rolled-Over-The-Edge seamless Fiberglass Roof Sheathing
A single sheet of fiberglass as shown HERE that rolls over the right & left sides of the roof, down to the wall. The overlapping of fiberglass to the wall provides a good water seal and the fiberglass sheathing holds up better than roofs made of sheet rubber or thin plastic called TPO, which require more attention to keep your RV well protected.

e) A Five Sided Rear Wall Cap
A five sided back wall moves the seams around to the sides to areas of much less stress as seen HERE. The rear wall resembles a shallow rectangular cooking pan standing on it's side. Like the example, some rear wall sections are constructed with an integrated spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment. Not only are they convenience features, but that rear wall/cap offers a solid double-wall for exceptional strength which is more resistant to flexing the adjoining seam work.

Don't be fooled. There are a select few manufactures who add rear wall sectional styling pieces over an entry level rear corner seam design which gives the appearance of a 5-sided pan design. You can easily tell by noting the sections & seams between them and the flat back wall that remains exposed.

Bigger Will Be Weaker
The size & floor plan you select MUST FIRST meet your needs before this consideration.
The bigger the house, the weaker the structure will be. Consider two cardboard boxes made from the exact same corrugated material. The smaller box would naturally be stronger. It will be more resistant to bending, twisting, and other types of flexing. So if you are on the fence between models, the smaller one will be your stronger choice.

Potentially Troublesome Construction
Entry level motor homes are made with seams in corners and finished off with trim, including the massive cab-over bed. Their roof is flat and finished with rubber or TPO. They are most affordable, and come in all sizes. HERE is one such example. If considering this construction type, keep in-mind they require more regular care with bi-annual inspections. Plan to use a caulking gun now and then. When buying a used one, consider that you really don't know how well the previous owner maintained it. Buying new or used, that construction method will be counting on you to be a good non-neglectful owner.

There are also the rare exception of the Lazy Daze which has seam work in the corners, but the substructure and sealing method is of the highest quality that it holds up like a seamless body. It's excellent sectional construction methods are not commonly found in other brands. I am no expert on this, but I'd give it a #1.5 Almost Like Best

About The Chassis
The most popular is the Ford E-Series with the V10 engine. The Sprinter diesel is a popular alternative to the E350 in the smaller sizes. Also within this past year is the recent introduction of the Ford Transit. The GM chassis is not popular, but is a very good choice for the right application. Any of these chassis made since 1998 are real good, new or used. If you plan to tow a car or heavy trailer, be aware that the Sprinter & Transit will be least powered. People who tow with them naturally take it slower.

If considering a current-day “small” class B+ or C motor home, here is a comparison between the two current main contenders, the Sprinter with the V6 diesel engine and the Ford E350 with the V10 gasoline engine.

Advantages Of The Mercedes Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Offers a 35%-50% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
- More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- A grander view out the windshield
- Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions or you are dangerously low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

You decide what your priorities are, and pick the appropriate chassis. There are some really sweet motor homes being built exclusively on the Sprinter chassis, such as the Winnebago Via, View and View Profile. Others like Phoenix USA build their model 2350 and 2400 on both the Sprinter and Ford E350. They will even build it on the heaviest duty E450 upon request for a nominal fee. People who request an E450 for a small motor home, tow heavier things like for example, a multi-horse trailer. You can even special order a E350 & E450 4x4.

There is so much cool stuff offered in recent years on the Sprinter and most recently on the new Ford Transit.

The Ford Transit Chassis
This chassis has the potential to dominate the class B+ & C motor home market in the smaller sizes. According to Ford's website, the Transit DRW chassis is offered in the 156", and 178" wheel base, and is rated as high as 10,360 GVWR. Ford offers a motor home package specific for the RV industry. It's diesel engine compares to the Sprinter in power and fuel economy, but is more affordable and is easily serviced at Ford service centers, just like the E350/E450. The cab has a much lower stance than the Sprinter making it much more friendly to get into and out from for people in their later years. It's more like a mini-van rather than a standard van. The Transit's lower cab also offers roomier over-head bunks that are easier to access.

The Dodge Promaster 3500 Cut-Away Chassis
This front wheel drive chassis is another recent entry in the RV industry. I am concerned over it's lack of load capability as reflected with single free-wheeling rear wheels. I have been reading posts written by new Promaster RV owners stating they are over-weight with just two people, some personal effects and food. They say they can't carry water and never a 3rd person. I would not be comfortable with such a limited load range in a B+ or C. This chassis does seem ideal for the straight "B" motor home market.

The Chevy 3500/4500 Chassis
Unfortunately this chassis is not more popular, primarily because GM sort-of gave up on competing with the Ford E350/E450. It offers more interior comfort than the Ford, but not as much as the Sprinter. It's power & weight ratings are a little less than their Ford counter-parts making them a great chassis for all but the heaviest of class Cs. They are also a little better on fuel consumption. One thing to keep in-mind, if you are counting inches in storing your rig, the Chevy is a little longer than the Ford by a number of inches which was critical for us with our garage as seen HERE with our Ford 2007 E350 rig. That could be the reason why the Chevy has a little more interior driver/passenger leg room.

Engine Power Ratings of Ford, MB-Sprinter, Chevy, and Dodge
Ford E350/E450 - 6.8L-V10, 305hp, 420ft
Ford Transit Diesel - 3.2L-I5, 185hp, 350ft
Mercedes Sprinter Diesel - 3.0L-V6, 188hp, 325ft
Chevy 3500/4500 - 6.0L-V8, 323hp, 373ft
Dodge Promaster - 3.6L-V6 (GVW only 9,300 pounds)

This was well written and very accurate. The observations were factural and noteworthy. I hope anyone considering a Class C will think about this before buying. Before we purchased our current 5th wheel I was seriously considering a class B or B+. I was....not my wife. It's hard to get a woman to give up floor space, counter space and closet space. They could care less about quality construction. I will force her to review this great write up and think about it when the time comes to stop towing and get into a motor home. Thanks for your time and knowledge.

[Likes_to_tow]

Harvey51 wrote:
I see few new trailers with flat roofs but quite a lot of Cs with them. It shouldn't be very expensive to peak the roof a few inches, which would certainly help the water run off the roof.

[TyroneandGladys]

I had a leak at the bottom of the sidewall on the cab over and could not find any caulk or sealant that did not crack or separate. I have had great success now in sealing that seam with Gorilla Clear Repair Tape