Pulling A Fifth Wheel vs. Bumper Pull

[DallasSteve]

I've been researching travel trailers and I'm not sure yet whether I want a fifth wheel or a bumper pull trailer. I've read more than once that a fifth wheel is easier to handle/more stable on the road. I've heard others claim there's not much difference if they are set up correctly. Part of my hesitation on going with a fifth wheel is losing the truck bed, the additional tow capacity needed, the additional height, the additional cost. But they are nice. And I will probably put several thousand miles per year on it so doing that with more tranquility would be nice.

Can some of you who have pulled large trailers (over 35 feet) of both varieties give me your opinion about the difference in feel on the road?

(Moderator, if this would be better under General RV or somewhere else feel free to move it)

Thanks

Steve

[Redterpos3]

When I first began looking at RV's I thought I would want a 5th wheel with its space, and storage. After having my trailer for a few years I want back and looked at 5th wheels, and they didn't have the same cache for me. My trailer does exactly what I need, and I get the use of my truck bed. Now 5th wheels aren't as much a draw as I thought they would be (plus more $$). Now if I was traveling for long stretches, or full-timing I might be more interested again.

[Lantley]

IBcarguy wrote:
I don't know. Never weighed it.

I would consider weighing a starting point.
Knowing not guessing,estimating or brochuring your weights will let you know where you stand within the parameters of your combo.
Good or bad the actual weights is valuable information if you are serious about finding a lasting solution.

[IBcarguy]

I don't know. Never weighed it.

[Lantley]

IBcarguy wrote:

RCMAN46 wrote:

IBcarguy wrote:
I've owned both. In my opinion, the bumper pull travel trailer towed smoother. My new 5th wheel is very jerky (chucking) back and forth motion after hitting a bump or dip in the road. This is a common problem with 5th wheels. Also I think backing is easier with a travel trailer. Backing a 5er is a different technique that takes some practice. Nevertheless, we're still happier with the 5er. Much better layout than most TTs.

Curious what is your pin weight percentage with your 5th wheel?

Unloaded it's about 18.5%. I've been told that's a little light in the front end.

Unloaded doesn't really matter. When will you tow your fiver empty? What is the loaded pin?

[IBcarguy]

RCMAN46 wrote:

IBcarguy wrote:
I've owned both. In my opinion, the bumper pull travel trailer towed smoother. My new 5th wheel is very jerky (chucking) back and forth motion after hitting a bump or dip in the road. This is a common problem with 5th wheels. Also I think backing is easier with a travel trailer. Backing a 5er is a different technique that takes some practice. Nevertheless, we're still happier with the 5er. Much better layout than most TTs.

Curious what is your pin weight percentage with your 5th wheel?

Unloaded it's about 18.5%. I've been told that's a little light in the front end.

[RCMAN46]

IBcarguy wrote:
I've owned both. In my opinion, the bumper pull travel trailer towed smoother. My new 5th wheel is very jerky (chucking) back and forth motion after hitting a bump or dip in the road. This is a common problem with 5th wheels. Also I think backing is easier with a travel trailer. Backing a 5er is a different technique that takes some practice. Nevertheless, we're still happier with the 5er. Much better layout than most TTs.

Curious what is your pin weight percentage with your 5th wheel?

[IBcarguy]

I've owned both. In my opinion, the bumper pull travel trailer towed smoother. My new 5th wheel is very jerky (chucking) back and forth motion after hitting a bump or dip in the road. This is a common problem with 5th wheels. Also I think backing is easier with a travel trailer. Backing a 5er is a different technique that takes some practice. Nevertheless, we're still happier with the 5er. Much better layout than most TTs.

[DallasSteve]

Thanks again for the feedback on this thread. It gives me a lot to think about. I'm planning to use mine for full-time living and my travel schedule will be mostly flexible, plus I don't plan to travel more than 1 or 2 hours per day (usually) and not every day. So I will try to avoid heavy winds by delaying my departures when necessary, but I'm sure sometimes I'll encounter them. When it feels really bad I might pull off to a rest area or just pick an RV park for the night; or I may decide the heavy winds don't bother me and my rig so much.

[horton333]

troubledwaters wrote:
Very interesting conclusion. Totally blows away all previous held theories about what happens when the center of gravity is higher vs. lower.

It's a true revolution for physics. Formula 1 will switching to trucks with 2' lift kits as soon as they hear about this discovery!
:B

[troubledwaters]

rhagfo wrote:
While a TT is lower to the ground, and is not as tall as a 5er. I believe part of the reason that a 5er, is still very stable in a cross wind is the fact the hitch is as much as 2' to 2.5' higher than that of a TT, thus raising the point of rotation of the trailer. That would make the wind induced tipping force on a 5er less than the entire side of the 5er, where with a TT the hitch is on the same level as the bottom of the side wall so the entire side has wind induced tipping force. That said the driver of the 5er's TV, should also feel that force as a lateral more than a TT. I don't think this line of difference between lateral and tipping wind force would be a level line the length of the 5er rather run diagonally from the pin to the lower rear corner of the 5er.

Very interesting conclusion. Totally blows away all previous held theories about what happens when the center of gravity is higher vs. lower.

[rhagfo]

myredracer wrote:

rhagfo wrote:
Horton, I really hate to inform you that a fiver can use a great deal of the bed for coolers, fire wood, tool boxes generators, dog cages etc.

With a TT you can have it fully covered and locked and not have to worry about stuff getting wet, stolen or go flying out along the freeway. We use 100 percent of our 8' bed all the time and really glad there is nothing in the way or dirty lube to get on you or your stuff. We also get to use 100 percent of the bed at home when we need to go get a load of building or farm supplies. I'd hate to always have a big heavy blob in the back of our truck.

Same 'ol, same 'ol - doesn't matter what the subject is, some will have all sorts of reasons why their opinion is the only correct one, will put their spin on things as needed or find reasons to ridicule or slam other's opinions or experiences.

Well not my point at all.
Yes with a TT you can put a canopy on the TV for dry secure storage of those items you chose.

My point is all of those that make it sound that the bed of the TV is totally useless when towing a 5er, this is not the case there are still many items that can be placed in the TV bed when towing a 5er. Many that tow 5ers also have fold up or roll up bed covers that are used once the 5er is disconnected.

Those that state the bed is useless, also forget that most 5ers have good sized basements where much of what those with TT haul in the bed, is carried in a 5er.

I will not go into the discussion of firewood, after seeing a couple of folks with TT's come in with what seemed like a full cord of fire wood in the bed!!

I will also state that every thing that goes into the bed of the TV reduces its payload by a like amount, so if you put 500# of "Stuff" in the bed, you now have 500# less of payload for the TV.

If you place 500# of stuff in the basement of a 5er, somewhere between 40% to 50% goes on the pin, the rest goes on the 5er's axles. So that 500# of stuff added to the basement only uses about 250# of TV payload.

I am just stating facts both ways, not saying a 5er is the best choice, it is for some, but not for others. If the owner is a contractor and uses the bed of the TV for hauling tools of the trade, with a canopy, then TT is a far better fit.

With the right TV, one could carry a TC, and tow a TT, some campgrounds might have an issue with two camping units in a single space, it is possible.


Well you also got me thinking on the point of stability in a cross wind.
While a TT is lower to the ground, and is not as tall as a 5er. I believe part of the reason that a 5er, is still very stable in a cross wind is the fact the hitch is as much as 2' to 2.5' higher than that of a TT, thus raising the point of rotation of the trailer. That would make the wind induced tipping force on a 5er less than the entire side of the 5er, where with a TT the hitch is on the same level as the bottom of the side wall so the entire side has wind induced tipping force. That said the driver of the 5er's TV, should also feel that force as a lateral more than a TT. I don't think this line of difference between lateral and tipping wind force would be a level line the length of the 5er rather run diagonally from the pin to the lower rear corner of the 5er.

[myredracer]

rhagfo wrote:
Horton, I really hate to inform you that a fiver can use a great deal of the bed for coolers, fire wood, tool boxes generators, dog cages etc.

With a TT you can have it fully covered and locked and not have to worry about stuff getting wet, stolen or go flying out along the freeway. We use 100 percent of our 8' bed all the time and really glad there is nothing in the way or dirty lube to get on you or your stuff. We also get to use 100 percent of the bed at home when we need to go get a load of building or farm supplies. I'd hate to always have a big heavy blob in the back of our truck.

Same 'ol, same 'ol - doesn't matter what the subject is, some will have all sorts of reasons why their opinion is the only correct one, will put their spin on things as needed or find reasons to ridicule or slam other's opinions or experiences.

[horton333]

rhagfo wrote:

horton333 wrote:
"To each their own, but a 5er is naturally more stable, simple physics. There is a reason that 5er don't need sway control devices."

As documented below considering the physics of the fifth wheel must have greater sway forces to both wind and torsional problems, that's why the manufacturers recommend at least twice as much weight forward (and so a much stronger truck) to compensate.
The other sway control method 5th wheels use is to move the pivot point to slightly forward of the rear wheels. This is highly effective at reducing sway but it dominates the use of the entire truck bed.
TT owners can use their bed, and buy a lot cheaper truck for the addition of some much cheaper sway control on the hitch itself.

Horton, I really hate to inform you that a fiver can use a great deal of the bed for coolers, fire wood, tool boxes generators, dog cages etc.
The important camping stuff, can be stored in the 5er basement, where it doesn't need to be packed and unpacked before and after each trip. Bikes can go on a pin box mount where they are safely out of the way and within sight while towing.

Recommended tongue and pin weights are like TT 12% to 15% and 5er 15% to 25% that is not twice as much, most 5er do well at 20% to 22%, while to cut back on sway a TT should be close to 15%.

I do realize that there are many good thing about TT, fewer steps lower ceilings. that said with long rigs lower to the ground as it's own issues dragging at driveways!!

10% is what the SAE calls up in their towing specification and it's implicitly in most manufacturers specifications of both TV and trailers. Sure more is better, that is why 5th wheels recommend to double it. Putting a cooler and some firewood in the bed of a one ton dually is hardly having use of the bed. You pay a large price to control the sway on a 5th wheel.

[rhagfo]

horton333 wrote:
"To each their own, but a 5er is naturally more stable, simple physics. There is a reason that 5er don't need sway control devices."

As documented below considering the physics of the fifth wheel must have greater sway forces to both wind and torsional problems, that's why the manufacturers recommend at least twice as much weight forward (and so a much stronger truck) to compensate.
The other sway control method 5th wheels use is to move the pivot point to slightly forward of the rear wheels. This is highly effective at reducing sway but it dominates the use of the entire truck bed.
TT owners can use their bed, and buy a lot cheaper truck for the addition of some much cheaper sway control on the hitch itself.

Horton, I really hate to inform you that a fiver can use a great deal of the bed for coolers, fire wood, tool boxes generators, dog cages etc.
The important camping stuff, can be stored in the 5er basement, where it doesn't need to be packed and unpacked before and after each trip. Bikes can go on a pin box mount where they are safely out of the way and within sight while towing.

Recommended tongue and pin weights are like TT 12% to 15% and 5er 15% to 25% that is not twice as much, most 5er do well at 20% to 22%, while to cut back on sway a TT should be close to 15%.

I do realize that there are many good thing about TT, fewer steps lower ceilings. that said with long rigs lower to the ground as it's own issues dragging at driveways!!