Questions on tow vehicle, considering 8.1 Burb

[gmcman]

I've had my Envoy since 2002, has adequate towing capacity for my needs. However I'm looking at a slightly newer vehicle and I know the MPG's will take a hit, but this won't be the daily driver.

I may look into a 24-26' boat in the near future, possibly other items that may tip the scales at 7000-8000 lbs or more and I would like something that can tow these weights with some comfort margin.

Diesel vs gas, always a good debate, not sure where to look but I like the fact the 8.1 is gas and has a very respectable tow rating. The suburban would serve as the family hauler on occasions so the 7 seats are welcome.

I want to say if I pursued the 2500 suburban, I could find some low mileage/well kept examples....just not sure what to expect price wise and maintenance items.

I've always been fond of the 8.1 burb, was overkill at the time. If I had to pull the trigger on one, I would like to get a 2006 or possibly a 2005 based on refinements.

Now the question I have is...what about a 6.0 suburban/yukon, do these have tow ratings in the 9-10K range? This would get me into an even newer vehicle but I would like to stay under $10K but could go $12K....I"m just not going to buy a new vehicle.

One option is a Tahoe, 2012 or newer, maybe even a 6-speed but the 5.3 doesn't give me warm fuzzies.

I like the suburban for it's size and capabilities, location isn't a real issue if I can get what I want. I could travel out of state, ideally south, below the rust belt. I'd rather make the effort to travel and get what I want than work locally for a lesser vehicle if it came to that.


Just looking for some good constructive criticism, all input appreciated.

[Wishin]

I bought mine for less than $10,000 in 2013 but I'm sure my total investment in the vehicle now is over $15,000. I've done a lot of repairs and part replacements. Some out of need, some just to make sure I don't have an issue on the road. All of them are old now. If you buy something that old, just expect to spend the time and money to get it into good condition. Even if it was well cared for, the previous owner probably wasn't fixing things with the plan to keep it long term, so it might need a bit of work to make it truly reliable. I plan to haul my trailer out west this summer for 16 days and 6,000 miles and I'm not concerned that it is 14 years old and has over 150k miles on it, but I've replaced everything that shows the slightest sign of trouble or is a likely candidate for trouble.

I've towed with an '06 Duramax 2500HD also, much nicer. Honestly in the midwest, it doesn't matter much, but when the hills get bigger and more frequent, the quiet cruising of the diesel is really nice on a longer haul. Almost always stays in 6th gear.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

[minnow]

I had two 8.1's; a 2001 Suburban and a 2004 Silverado 2500HD.

Towing around 8 mpg. Not towing 11 mpg. Both towed great. The vehicles with the 6.0 version get about the same mileage towing but 14-16 not towing.

I would think finding a decent used one will not be easy. Not many 8.1 equipped Suburbans were built in the first place. And since the 8.1 stopped being offered in the Suburban for 11 years now, the supply has got to be pretty slim.

[BenK]

Keep looking...they are few, but are out there...look mainly for someone who is into fashion statement and doesn't tow heavy or at all...boulevard cruiser type that wanted a big block

Technology has come a long ways and will continue...more than just the IP for ICE's that has small blocks produce big block levels of power...even pretty good duty cycles at those levels to boot...

But, another component that has made huge MPG strides is the close ratio trannies with DOUBLE OD. That has allowed the ICE's to be tuned to take advantage of closer spaced ratios and that double OD

On my list of things for the day decide to rebuild my K3500 Suburban's 7.4L and 4L80E are a 'built' 7.4L, a 'built' 4L80E (up to 1,000 ft/lb rating, but won't be using it at 1K ft/lbs...so going to have a higher duty cycle) and an GearVendor OD (so it will be similar to newer TV's with double OD). Undecided on lower diff ratios....maybe 4.56 or 4.88 or 5.13 and go with the 0.75 to 0.5 gearvendors

Plus, they have a gear splitter function that will turn the OEM 4 speed into an 8 speed. Key is that mine develops max torque at about 1,800 RPMs and pretty close to that just off idle...so having a double OD will still have my 7.4L in it's sweet range

Here is the 8.1L torque curve, but don't know it will apply to the one you purchase...just a ball park for figuring... More HP & torque than my 7.4L, but very similar shape curves in reference to where it develops torque/hp vs RPM






My 7.4L occasionally (not often, but often enough to claim it) gets 15.x MPG. Mostly 12.x when empty on the highway. 10 MPG when loaded with people and towing 6-8 MPG depending what am towing and terrain

Does NOT consume engine oil till after 3K or more miles....though it beats up engine oil pretty badly and can tell when it is time to change...when the dash gauge drops in PSI

Here is the link to GearVendors and is what am going to get. About $3K, you are buying used, so it WILL still be less than a new TV

GearVendors: CHEVROLET/GMC Truck-Car-Van 2-Wheel Drive 4-Speed Automatics

GearVendors: CHEVROLET/GMC Truck-Car-Van 4-Wheel Drive 4-Speed Automatics

gmcman wrote:
I never understood why GM never offered the duramax as a factory option for the suburban...even if it were to be in small numbers, it would have surely sold.

Well, my 8.1 quest is looking gloomy with all the mpg facts. Even though it would be used sparingly...I'm sure we would use it on occasions and the thought of using 80 gallons of fuel to go to the beach is crazy.....lol.

The 8.1 isn't ruled out, but a 2500 Ram 5.9, pre 08 is looking better. I have friends who see 20 MPG easy at 60 MPH, not towing.... regularly.

What does the Ram 2500 need to be outfitted with for a 10K towing capacity?

[Grit_dog]

gmcman wrote:
I never understood why GM never offered the duramax as a factory option for the suburban...even if it were to be in small numbers, it would have surely sold.

Well, my 8.1 quest is looking gloomy with all the mpg facts. Even though it would be used sparingly...I'm sure we would use it on occasions and the thought of using 80 gallons of fuel to go to the beach is crazy.....lol.

The 8.1 isn't ruled out, but a 2500 Ram 5.9, pre 08 is looking better. I have friends who see 20 MPG easy at 60 MPH, not towing.... regularly.

What does the Ram 2500 need to be outfitted with for a 10K towing capacity?

^it needs to be outfitted with a stinger in the trailer hitch. That's all. Tow ready out of the box for more than 10klbs.

[krobbe]

My 2003 8.1 Burb averages 9 - 9.5mpg towing my 7200# TT at 65mph. With a 36gal tank, I start looking for a station at about 4 hours(1/4 tank) or 250miles. That's more than most people want to travel without a pit stop.
As far as driving in the mountains at higher elevations, yes there is some noticeable loss of horsepower. But it has plenty to spare to begin with, with diesel like torque. You won't find another vehicle with 4x4 other than the Excursion that will hold up the tongue weight of an 8000# trailer and carry 6 to 8 passengers.
I'll not be giving up my Burb anytime soon!

[mrw8i]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

gmcman wrote:
I never understood why GM never offered the duramax as a factory option for the suburban...even if it were to be in small numbers, it would have surely sold.

Well, my 8.1 quest is looking gloomy with all the mpg facts. Even though it would be used sparingly...I'm sure we would use it on occasions and the thought of using 80 gallons of fuel to go to the beach is crazy.....lol.

The 8.1 isn't ruled out, but a 2500 Ram 5.9, pre 08 is looking better. I have friends who see 20 MPG easy at 60 MPH, not towing.... regularly.

What does the Ram 2500 need to be outfitted with for a 10K towing capacity?

Because the Allie tranny was the only one to hold up to the torque of the Dmax and the Allie won't fit in the burb. They would have to redesign the whole package and they didn't want to do that for the amount of sales they would have gained.

GM was working on a smaller turbo diesel/trans combo for the Suburban when the bottom fell out in 2008. That shelved the idea and it never came back. I suspect it will return in the future.

[mrw8i]

Another issue with the 8.1L was piston slap during startup. I also had issues during steep, slow climbs in the heat with it. EFI would pump hot fuel back to the fuel tank after not being used by the engine, flowing through the hot engine compartment and then back to the tank. After about an hour of that - either the fuel pump and/or vapor lock and the engine dies. I got lucky twice and stumbled to the side of the road, opened the hood, cracked a beer and waited 2 hours and continued on.

[mrw8i]

7,000 - 8,000 lbs you are towing? Tahoe is too small, short wheelbase, not enough suspension or brakes. Even if the drive train could haul that weight. You need stability when towing. Don't let the tail wag the dog.

I had a 3/4 ton 2004 8.1 Suburban. Gas guzzler. Oil guzzler. Towed smaller trailer pretty well - about 6,500 lbs. However, getting into high altitude - above 8,000 feet of steep climbing - there were issues. The issue was the transmission, not enough gears when towing up steep, slow, curvy inclines at high elevation.. Even with that kind of power 1st gear was too much, 2nd was not enough - so it was hunting between gears. Most gasoline engines are not forced induction so lose a lot of horsepower as elevation increases. Most modern diesel pickups are turbo charged - thus lose less horsepower as elevation increases.

I now have a 2012 6.7L Ford Super Duty turbo diesel. Loved it, until the turbo charge tube blew off a month ago 250 miles from home, 50 miles from nearest dealer, in the middle of the desert towing my 5th wheel. It's fixed now, and I now carry a spare charge tube (known issue). I'm no longer in love with it, now I like it - hoping it doesn't break down like that again.

Cost of ownership is probably higher with a diesel.

[falconbrother]

Split it down the middle and get a GMC Yukon XL with the 6.0 and the 6L80e transmission.

[BenK]

No right or wrong...just opinions...

I LOVE big blocks...small blocks are also great...am NOT a diesel person, but know it is great for others...

Or that comparing MPG between them is out of context...one has about 12%-15% more BTU's than the other...so of course one gets more MPG...toss in much higher compression ratio than the other...another of course higher output

Ten the tons of +/- attributes to them all...I call them Personality traits that you either love or hate about them

Again...I'd take a big block any time...heck...even own one...

[burningman]

I pulled one of those motors out of a wrecked suburban and put it in my GMC crewcab dually, and my best friend has an '04 Chevy 2500 pickup with the 8.1.
It does pull well, but it destroys fuel!
I did do what you mentioned, got a Dodge with the 5.9 Cummins and it's LIGHT YEARS better at towing and mpg.
About the Dodge/Cummins trucks: there's a LOT to read up and learn about them (or any of the other brands) before choosing what model years you want to own.
The earlier 24-valves (1998.5-2002) are a whole lot cheaper to fix. The later 2003+ "Common Rail" Cummins are also excellent but things like injectors are pricey.
All have well known and documented shortcomings that have been figured out and have their solutions, and they all cost money. All can be made to work great. You need to read on Dodge Cummins truck forums thoroughly before going out and blindly choosing one.

I can tell you my almost-20-year-old Dodge, after the right things were done to it, will pull every bit as well as a new one for less than half the price and the 8.1 Chevy - which I also own - is no comparison. But it still cost a whole lot more to get it there than a gas Chevy.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

gmcman wrote:
I never understood why GM never offered the duramax as a factory option for the suburban...even if it were to be in small numbers, it would have surely sold.

Well, my 8.1 quest is looking gloomy with all the mpg facts. Even though it would be used sparingly...I'm sure we would use it on occasions and the thought of using 80 gallons of fuel to go to the beach is crazy.....lol.

The 8.1 isn't ruled out, but a 2500 Ram 5.9, pre 08 is looking better. I have friends who see 20 MPG easy at 60 MPH, not towing.... regularly.

What does the Ram 2500 need to be outfitted with for a 10K towing capacity?

Because the Allie tranny was the only one to hold up to the torque of the Dmax and the Allie won't fit in the burb. They would have to redesign the whole package and they didn't want to do that for the amount of sales they would have gained.

[Thom02099]

I have the '03 Tahoe with the 5.3L and tow package and WDH, towing the trailer in my avatar, at 5900lbs fully loaded. It tows fine. Tow limit on the 'hoe is around 7400lbs, I'm sure the newer ones have a higher weight limit than the '03. You won't win any races towing in the mountains, but it does the job for me in the high Rockies.

If the 'burb with the 8.1 would meet your needs and you can find one at the price point you're looking at, if it were me, I'd sure consider it. You may be disappointed with the Tahoe regardless of the year, in comparison to the 'burb. If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have gone with a Surburban with the bigger engine.

[gmcman]

I never understood why GM never offered the duramax as a factory option for the suburban...even if it were to be in small numbers, it would have surely sold.

Well, my 8.1 quest is looking gloomy with all the mpg facts. Even though it would be used sparingly...I'm sure we would use it on occasions and the thought of using 80 gallons of fuel to go to the beach is crazy.....lol.

The 8.1 isn't ruled out, but a 2500 Ram 5.9, pre 08 is looking better. I have friends who see 20 MPG easy at 60 MPH, not towing.... regularly.

What does the Ram 2500 need to be outfitted with for a 10K towing capacity?