Stability, hitch and tongue weight....

[Flapper]

Concerned over handling of my combo - but I'm inexperienced as to what "good" travel trailer towing should be like.

Problem: Occasional small sway (measured in a couple of inches each way, but can be felt and visible in the mirrors), that goes away when I slightly reduce speed. Some "suck" by semi's passing. Wind gusts (15-25 mph) require constant two handed steering. 60 mph in the wind was top speed, before I started gripping the wheel harder, or backed off due to the rare small sway events.

Prior towing: 20ft boat, Jayco 30 ft. fifth. Both of which were solid when being towed.

Truck: F-150, SCrew, Eco, Max Tow, HD Payload, LT "E" tires.
Travel Trailer: Grand Design Imagine 2670MK, 32ft.
Hitch: Andersen "No Sway" WDH

Loaded trailer weights: 7,640, 805 tongue with 15 gal water. Tank is midway between tongue and TT wheels.
On return trip, I filled tank completely (30 gal more), so guessing TT was at 7,895 and 930 tongue. Only slightly better.

In the first instance, was able to crank the Andersen to a point where front fenders of truck were back to unloaded height. On second, was able to get them a bit over 50%, which is Ford spec for WDH.

By my math, was at 10.5% tongue originally, increased to 11.8% the second time. Not much to do to further increase the %, unless I start shopping for several big batteries.

With a payload of 2,166, and GVW of 8,200, the truck is better than some F-250's, and already has a pretty good wheelbase - so not thinking it is a truck problem.

So, opinions please - ditch the hitch, and get a ProPride? Buy more batteries for tongue weight? Both? Or suck it up and accept that this is why people say 5th's tow better than TT's?

[gmw_photos]

Lantley wrote:

DanNJanice wrote:
IMHO,
Travel trailers do NOT tow as good as 5vrs. If you have a crosswind and a semi passes you WILL feel it. There is no such thing as someone towing a TT and "forgetting it is back there", no matter what you might read on these forums.
.

You have obviously not used a Hensley or Propride.
My Hensley towed my prior 39'- 10.5K loaded TT just as well as my current fiver.
They are expensive . But they work

To put a slightly further point on that, I have four trailers right now. Two goosenecks and two bumper pulls. My bumper pull trailers ( travel trailer and a horse trailer ) are set up with a Blue Ox swaypro, and both these are often towed with my Frontier. Rock steady here in the windy midwest. The key is a properly designed trailer, a good hitch setup and an adequate tow vehicle.

[Slowmover]

Guess you missed, How to Determine the Minimum".

There are those who inflate till they think the truck feels right. A problem in suspension tuning, not tire pressure.

Correct is per Load. Load is determined per individual wheel. The wheel with the heaviest load on an axle determines pressure.

And after that, comes time for play: Acceptable pressure rise after steady state running?

If no air "required", then playing with 5-psi increments is just that. Testing and experimentation are play.

Same with maneuvers inside vehicle performance envelope. First question is what determines the latter.

I recommend those without brain or heart stick to public transportation.

Want to help with specifics of one tire type over another, thanks. Want to speak from a nether region? No thanks.

The correct pressure for the load is weight based. And road tested.

[RinconVTR]

Slowmover wrote:
Playing with tire pressure: IMHO, only if CAT Scale confirms choice.

After the Ford Explorer debacle, vehicle manufacturers got serious about the recommended pressure range. 2009 vehicles and newer reflect this on the door sticker.

A Load & Pressure Table can give adequate choices inside that OEM range.

Use of a CAT Scale to find individual tire loads solo and when properly hitched. The worst load on either end of the axle determines pressure.

Find the range. It won't be too far off the Table value. Test for pressure rise after 1.5-hrs steady state. 5-7% okay.

Remember that this is a combined rig. Higher pressure on the TV "might" seem better, but it's putting the rig through hard maneuvers that tells the story. Too high a tire pressure on the TV can make the combined rig worse off as the TT comes around. ( TT tires at full sidewall pressure.)

Some "give" usually works with TV pressure.

I run a minimum pressure. LTX on a truck usually at 9k when towing. Upgrading shocks and anti-roll bars is how to make the truck better. And I average above 100k long before 4/32s shows up. Same life for brakes.

Been RV on my own since 1973, and currently run a 2/3-full 7000-gl smoothbore tanker on super singles. A 47,000 monster back there I prefer not to ever wake up. Tire pressure is something to take seriously: Test it!!

Individual wheel loads. TV and TT.

The only thing true here is to use a scale to confirm weights.

"Playing with pressure"?

The door jam sticker does NOT give a range. It gives the lowest recommended operating pressure for the type of tire the OEM mounted.

If the truck came with P's and you mounted LT's that door sticker no longer applies.

Adding air to P tires simply stiffens them up for better towing stability. It does not increase weight capacity.

Adding pressure in LT tires DOES increase load carry capacity and that is where load charts and scales come into play. You can go all the way to MAX COLD on the sidewall but not below the rated PSI for the given load.

I highly recommend no one follows your advice to tow at minimum tire pressures.

[Slowmover]

Playing with tire pressure: IMHO, only if CAT Scale confirms choice.

After the Ford Explorer debacle, vehicle manufacturers got serious about the recommended pressure range. 2009 vehicles and newer reflect this on the door sticker.

A Load & Pressure Table can give adequate choices inside that OEM range.

Use of a CAT Scale to find individual tire loads solo and when properly hitched. The worst load on either end of the axle determines pressure.

Find the range. It won't be too far off the Table value. Test for pressure rise after 1.5-hrs steady state. 5-7% okay.

Remember that this is a combined rig. Higher pressure on the TV "might" seem better, but it's putting the rig through hard maneuvers that tells the story. Too high a tire pressure on the TV can make the combined rig worse off as the TT comes around. ( TT tires at full sidewall pressure.)

Some "give" usually works with TV pressure.

I run a minimum pressure. LTX on a truck usually at 9k when towing. Upgrading shocks and anti-roll bars is how to make the truck better. And I average above 100k long before 4/32s shows up. Same life for brakes.

Been RV on my own since 1973, and currently run a 2/3-full 7000-gl smoothbore tanker on super singles. A 47,000 monster back there I prefer not to ever wake up. Tire pressure is something to take seriously: Test it!!

Individual wheel loads. TV and TT.

[RinconVTR]

BenK wrote:


WD Hitch system is also only one component of that system. HA/Pro/etc family is highly touted and am not knocking it...just that one failure mode gives me pause and looking at another system. Another IMHO...

...return enough weight back to the TV's front axle as per your OEM's recommendation...

Have as high a tongue weight close to 15% of the trailers ACTUAL WEIGHT...have the trailer tongue either level or slightly pointing down...and stay within your TV's OEM specifications.

The driver is also a huge component of managing sway system...

Yes, the Hensley and Propride both have more possible points of failure than any other WDH on the market. Its what I call a love hate relationship!!! Towing with either one results in the same experience and life with them is not all roses and its a list of details that can make or break for certain buyers or not matter at all.

Good advice on verifying weight being returned to the front axle, as that is a priority for all WDH set ups and those having issues often fail to do so. I'm just not convinced this will result in comfortable towing, to the point the OP is content.

Mark my word, he'll be back her touting how much he likes towing with the Propride. It's no band-aid...those 2 premium price WDH's simply work as advertised, which is rare these days.

But as I mentioned the Hensley/Propride is a love/hate relationship with these hitches and I have been very open about pro's and con's of each here and other forums. Most importantly, on the road, you'll never know the difference.

[BenK]

Go through lots of tires and am always willing to try another one when my set is in need to be replaced...and have been a boy racer all my life. If it doesn't work, then either bit the bullet and change or a gosh darn...have fun wearing them out at the extremes...

Liked my first set of LTX-AT's, but undersized cuz they didn't offer them in E' for what I wanted to do so 'upgraded' to LTX-MS E's. First set noticed the tread blocks feathered just from braking hard testing buddies performance pads and VERY squirrelly...Land Rover jumped a stop sign and nailed him...messed up fender, suspension, wheel, tire, etc. So second LTX-MS E's. This new set cracked badly along with the other Michelin LTX's I had on the Silverado

Currently on Bridgestone Dueler Revo's and love them. Sipe'ing is 'closed' and tread blocks much larger than the LTX-MS's. No feathering but their leading edges show a bit of wear from hard/harsh braking/cornering.

Tires is only one component of the system for managing sway. Shocks, bushings, type of suspension, WD Hitch, etc, etc, etc, etc are also in the game contributing +/- to that game...

WD Hitch system is also only one component of that system. HA/Pro/etc family is highly touted and am not knocking it...just that one failure mode gives me pause and looking at another system. Another IMHO...

Back to the goal of all these knobs/dials/etc adjustments for sway control...return enough weight back to the TV's front axle as per your OEM's recommendation...Have as high a tongue weight close to 15% of the trailers ACTUAL WEIGHT...have the trailer tongue either level or slightly pointing down...and stay within your TV's OEM specifications.

The driver is also a huge component of managing sway system...

Have seen newbies get run all over the place, spending lots of money trying advice after advice...from advisers who think that if it solved it for themselves...therefore a one size fits all for everyone...

[GadgetmanUSA]

About 3 years ago I had a 2500HD Duramax/Allison. It was a towing monster. I towed a fifth wheel at the time and I needed new tires. The OEM tires were if I remember correctly Brigestone Duraviss 773. I purchased Michelin LTX-MSII LT245/75R16E from Discount Tire. I absolutely hated the Michelins. They felt mushy/squishy and towing was not as pleasant. I called Discount Tire and they said to give them a chance because they may get better. I towed a couple more times and took them back and exchanged them for a new set of Duraviss and they performed beautifully. They were a little harsher of a ride because of the stiffer sidewall but were very stable when towing. I ran them 55lbs front and 80lbs rear.
I made this post to let the OP know about my experience with those soft sided Michelin tire.

[RinconVTR]

Flapper wrote:


So....what tires would you recommend I should have gotten? Costco has a pretty generous return policy!

In any event, I just ordered the ProPride, for good or bad or waste of money.....will just have to see what happens at the 11.8% weight with that!

You have Defender LT's right? Try 60F/65R. The are great tires. And FYI, its not Costco that has a great return policy, its the tire companies. Many have 60 day grace periods now and very inclusive 1 year warranties. I just found this out myself, having one tire out of round and not able to be balanced after 6-7 months of driving on it. Michelin took care of me.

Good move on the Propride. Cant go wrong with that or the Hensley. Each have their issues and their mechanisms are the exact same to the fraction of an inch. You wont enjoy hooking up for awhile, but the effort pays huge dividends.

A "light" tongue weight of 10-11% will be perfect seeing the hitch head weighs about 150lbs on its own, plus 50lb for the draw bar/stinger.

But did you order 1400lb bars? If not, call now and change the order. You'll thank me later!

[Lantley]

DanNJanice wrote:
IMHO,
Travel trailers do NOT tow as good as 5vrs. If you have a crosswind and a semi passes you WILL feel it. There is no such thing as someone towing a TT and "forgetting it is back there", no matter what you might read on these forums.
.

You have obviously not used a Hensley or Propride.
My Hensley towed my prior 39'- 10.5K loaded TT just as well as my current fiver.
They are expensive . But they work

[Hannibal]

If you can turn sharp enough to run the bearings out of the cams on a Reese DC, much less while going fast enough to experience sway, me thinks someone's imagination is running away with them. The Reese and Equalizer both still work even with a little lube to make them quiet. Still more effective than some other hitches.
Does Reese Dual-Cam Sway Control Work Better than Blue Ox Sway Control | etrailer.com https://www.et...

[Flapper]

DanNJanice wrote:
IMHO, I think you might just be overreacting a bit. When I first got my travel trailer I was always worrying about sway. I would feel every gust, correct, etc. Over time, I learned to trust the feel of a trailer and low and behold, my "sway" concerned disappeared.
Travel trailers do NOT tow as good as 5vrs. If you have a crosswind and a semi passes you WILL feel it. There is no such thing as someone towing a TT and "forgetting it is back there", no matter what you might read on these forums.
So far, all you have described is a bit of wiggle, never an actual "sway" event.
I am not saying you should not check everything, but in the end, if you cannot find anything wrong, then just maybe you rig is normal.

True, I am not familiar with how towing a big trailer feels. But I have had sway. Generally only a couple of times on a 70-140 mile run, and then pretty small - but some. It was the last time when the excursions got big enough that it actually kicked off the sway system in the truck that it was really an attention grabber. And that was on clear road, with no easily determined provoking cause, and it came on really fast. Semi's will move my truck alone a bit, so I'm not expecting rock steady. But being able to cruise at 60-65 rather than 55-60 would be good, at least when the winds aren't all that much.

[DanNJanice]

IMHO, I think you might just be overreacting a bit. When I first got my travel trailer I was always worrying about sway. I would feel every gust, correct, etc. Over time, I learned to trust the feel of a trailer and low and behold, my "sway" concerned disappeared.
Travel trailers do NOT tow as good as 5vrs. If you have a crosswind and a semi passes you WILL feel it. There is no such thing as someone towing a TT and "forgetting it is back there", no matter what you might read on these forums.
So far, all you have described is a bit of wiggle, never an actual "sway" event.
I am not saying you should not check everything, but in the end, if you cannot find anything wrong, then just maybe you rig is normal.

[Flapper]

Hmmm, if the bathroom scale is to be trusted, it looks like only 16 lbs got redistributed! (1060 from BenK's comments vs the 1076 from my weighing).
While my numbers may be suspect, after draining water, it looks like tongue lightened up the 200 lbs I anticipated it would (45 gal tank, mid-way between wheels and tongue). That means I'm at 7366/872 or 11.8% with empty tanks. At that configuration, I can bring the front fenders completely back to original height. With the water, I can only restore them to 50%, but that is Ford Spec.

BenK - Andersen has you tighten the WD chains, so "fully set" means tightened as tight as I can possibly get them with the current wrench!

So....what tires would you recommend I should have gotten? Costco has a pretty generous return policy!

In any event, I just ordered the ProPride, for good or bad or waste of money.....will just have to see what happens at the 11.8% weight with that!
At least they have a 60 day return policy.

[mkirsch]

Frankly I would like to see your front weight closer to the unloaded value. You're beyond what an Anderson hitch can really handle if you ask me.

Do you need to go to the fancy $3000 hitch? No, a Reese Dual Cam or an Equal-I-Zer, something with actual sway dampening mechanisms, will do you a world of good.