"Long boondockers" leave trash; forests restricted

[profdant139]

This is upsetting -- trash from essentially homeless boondockers is causing the national forests to restrict camping:

Link to article

So I will once again float a very unpopular idea -- if we were to require all boondockers to buy annual passes, these freeloading lowlifes could be evicted by the rangers right away, for lack of a permit.

I know no one wants to pay another fee. I know this proposal has no chance of being enacted. But I do not have any other plausible solution to this problem.

And if we don't figure out a way to stop this, boondocking will be a thing of the past. Simple: ban all boondockers, no trash.

If you have a better idea, I'm all ears!

[RGar974417]

It is a problem. Even in some state parks. We stayed at a Pa state park a few years ago where some vagrants were staying. The rangers had to get them to clean up their site and give them a citation for putting tires in the dumpster.I can imagine it is worse where there is no regular ranger patrols.

[sgip2000]

How about hauling non-violent prisoners out there to clean it up?

[jfkmk]

Grenadiers wrote:
Income inequality has increased exponentially in this country since 1980. People spiraling out of control from a safe, middle-class lifestyle results in homelessness, living among those that either chose this lifestyle, or others that have a mental illness and live on the streets. Their are many reasons for this, but the facts are what they are, a hidden society that manifests itself when well to do retirees, and others, venture out of their moneyed cocoon to experience rural traveling in their expensive RVs.

The juxtaposition is that these RVers 'expect' the 'others' to be like them. Hardly, the moneyed population has zero idea of what the poor has to go through on a daily basis. I'm not condoning littering, but one has to 'walk in their moccasins' before they start throwing stones in glass houses. Or their vacation home in California for instance.

Oh good grief.

[F-TROUP]

Grenadiers wrote:
Income inequality has increased exponentially in this country since 1980. People spiraling out of control from a safe, middle-class lifestyle results in homelessness, living among those that either chose this lifestyle, or others that have a mental illness and live on the streets. Their are many reasons for this, but the facts are what they are, a hidden society that manifests itself when well to do retirees, and others, venture out of their moneyed cocoon to experience rural traveling in their expensive RVs.

The juxtaposition is that these RVers 'expect' the 'others' to be like them. Hardly, the moneyed population has zero idea of what the poor has to go through on a daily basis. I'm not condoning littering, but one has to 'walk in their moccasins' before they start throwing stones in glass houses. Or their vacation home in California for instance.

If these poor folks are so mentally ill and destitute, then the problem must be redistribution of wealth. The ones that have mental problems can't pay attention lone enough to find the mountains. If you feel guilty then there's a place on your tax returns to give additional money to the Feds and State if you so desire, myself I've earned what I have through hard work and making the right choices in life. Makes me sad to see how easy people give up to get something for nothing. Please close this as it's been beat like a dead horse.

[Grenadiers]

Income inequality has increased exponentially in this country since 1980. People spiraling out of control from a safe, middle-class lifestyle results in homelessness, living among those that either chose this lifestyle, or others that have a mental illness and live on the streets. Their are many reasons for this, but the facts are what they are, a hidden society that manifests itself when well to do retirees, and others, venture out of their moneyed cocoon to experience rural traveling in their expensive RVs.

The juxtaposition is that these RVers 'expect' the 'others' to be like them. Hardly, the moneyed population has zero idea of what the poor has to go through on a daily basis. I'm not condoning littering, but one has to 'walk in their moccasins' before they start throwing stones in glass houses. Or their vacation home in California for instance.

[Jerrybo66]

Naio wrote:
You can't fix poverty by making people buy passes.

Some people can't afford garbage service or to take their stuff to a legal dump. Some people are dealing with personal tragedies that are so extreme that they don't care. Some people have nowhere to go, so they have to camp in the woods.

Bringing back debtor's prisons is not the way to fix this. I understand the frustration and anger, but you're pointing it in the wrong direction.

I get the impression, maybe wrongly that the poster is making excuses for the poor. That's bull. If they can afford gas to drive into the outback they can afford rubbish pickup. A permit not only won't work but isn't fair to the honest camper who is the only ones who will buy the permit. Same as in gun control laws, the criminal won't pay any attention. We can't expect rangers to patrol the hundreds of square miles to catch the crud. I found a water heater dumped miles up a desert wash. No ranger could of prevented this. I loaded it in my Jeep and dropped it off at a road side rest. I see no solution. There will always be degenerates who have no responsibility to society. I guess all we can do is be aware of a chance to turn the dumper in and have it ignored or to just bite our lip and clean up what we can for our next lawful camping good neighbor.... IMO..

[JFNM]

I'm with the others, I pick up the trash I find where I boondock. You cannot legislate away stupid, careless, or poor. About the best I can do is attempt to be part of the solution by picking up what I find.

[Lenny_K]

996Pilot wrote:


Maybe we could take pictures and come out with "twenty-seven 8-by-10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us"

Just sayin 🙂

lol.... I haven't thought about Alice's Restaurant for awhile.

[profdant139]

Just to set the record straight, that was Pigman who advocated prowling through the mess, not me. I do gather other folks' trash when I boondock, but I draw the line at CSI: Boondocker Edition. 😉

[jfkmk]

996Pilot wrote:

profdant139 wrote:
It'll take time and effort, but in the vast number of cases a bit of prowling through the mess can ID the culprits. Big fines and/or working at cleaning up their own and other's mess might get their attention.

Maybe we could take pictures and come out with "twenty-seven 8-by-10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us"

Just sayin 🙂

Ha! Too funny! :B

[996Pilot]

profdant139 wrote:
It'll take time and effort, but in the vast number of cases a bit of prowling through the mess can ID the culprits. Big fines and/or working at cleaning up their own and other's mess might get their attention.

Maybe we could take pictures and come out with "twenty-seven 8-by-10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us"

Just sayin 🙂

[clikrf8]

We are conscientious recyclers at home: curbside pickup up of tin cans, glass, scrap paper and certain plastics. We also compost our table scraps. But, camping has presented new challenges. We use paper plates and place them on SS plates for stability. I premake a soup from home for the first few meals. I put mayo, relish, pickles in snapware. We reuse the paper plates for the dogs' food. We try to recycle the aluminum cans from hubby's pop if we are at a Campground that recycles. But, mainly we Boondock. We don't generate that much trash, certainly less than at home.

We see garbage out where we Boondock many times. Mainly it is partiers shooting up old appliances so they leave a mess of junk plus spent casings. We have never seen the vast amount that the sheriff videotaped. I hope we never have to. Some people think that others are there to clean up after them; others were never taught or forgot.

[Tvov]

pnichols wrote:
Maybe here in America we need to gradually learn to get by with less trash .... or would that bring an end to all human life here?

We're part of this Mode-of-Living problem in our stick house: About every two weeks our big recyclables trash container is full - it's pathetic that we have got sucked into residential living this way.

AND

We're continue with this Mode-of-Living problem in our RV: When we boondock camp for any length of time, I have a large contractor's black plastic bag full of trash when we leave our campsite that I have to find room for in our largest exterior storage bay until we can find a legal and proper place to dispose of it later - it's pathetic that we have got sucked into RV living like this.

You are talking about something a bit more than illegal dumping, changing people's way of living.

But... a lot of people, especially those who have a garbage service to remove their trash / garbage, have no idea how much "stuff" their family creates.

I bring my own garbage to the local transfer station (which then gets compacted and brought to a trash-to-energy plant), and every 3 weeks or so when I do this I am amazed at how much garbage my family creates. We recycle glass and cans, paper and magazines, cardboard, etc. If we didn't do the recycling our garbage would be that much more.

I have friends in the "garbage industry", and talking to them, just the volume of garbage is astonishing, even for my little town.

At least today we have recycling, and things like trash-to-energy plants. As I said in my earlier post, years ago people just dumped garbage in the back woods, or even just out the kitchen window.

[pnichols]

Dan,

That photo of yours sure brings back memories ... memories of what we had to do with both our trash AND FOOD in the High Sierras in backpacking camps. I even had to get up out of my ten in the middle of the night once and physically chase a bear out of our camp. I took the lead chasing the bear in the dark with a flashlight while my adult son followed BEHIND me. He insisted that he couldn't BEAR not having our rear column unprotected.

(Just kidding on him saying that ... but he actually did willing let me take the lead during the chasing!)