I removed a receptacle in our KZ Spree TT on the weekend to replace it with a black one and what I found was disturbing as can be seen in the first photo. Let this serve as a warning to RV owners out there.
The hot and neutral wires were only pushed onto one of the two terminals instead of two as specified by the manufacturer and as required by the UL/CSA certification. This means that the receptacle is only capable of carrying 1/2 it's current rating - 7 1/2 amps. Where higher rated appliances are used like say in a kitchen, this could lead to overheating. Worse, if someone has a heater plugged in and it runs non-stop for long periods of time, that would create an even higher risk of overheating. Note also that the romex/loomex cable sheath does not extend inside the receptacle housing as it is required to.
I've also found two receptacles with reverse polarity and a wire at a breaker in the converter/panel that was completely loose. KZ needs to look at their electrical practices and code compliance. I've also found numerous issues with the 12 volt wiring too. I am NOT impressed. :M
KZ is not alone though. The second photo is from a previous Coachmen Catalina TT that we used to own and you can see the hot wire connected to one terminal only there too. You can also see how the terminal was damaged and it appears that they did not use the correct tool. In two out of two TTs that I've pulled receptacles out of the wall, they've both had the same problem. Not good odds.
Receptacles in RVs are designated "SCD" for self-contained device and do not require an outlet box. These are also use in mobile homes. They are CSA or UL tested and are completely safe to use and do not ever need to be removed and replaced with a residential type (and outlet box) with screw terminals. The MUST be properly installed though and that is where RV factories are at fault. There is a special tool to "punch down" the wires onto the terminals and there is no excuse for not doing it correctly. This catalogue from Hubbell has detailed info. on their Wirecon SCD and explains how they are to be installed.
RVs are required to be wired according to the NEC, which is very detailed on what is required. Plus electrical appliances, wiring devices (recepts. & switches), wire, etc. are required to be UL or CSA certified. The problem is - there is no authority having jurisdiction or electrical engineer that is required to inspect the work for code compliance. To make it even harder, RVs are built in one state and shipped all over the US and to Canada so what AHJ would be responsible? I might consider notifying the electrical safety authority but would it be a state official or would it go to a federal authority?
The hot and neutral wires were only pushed onto one of the two terminals instead of two as specified by the manufacturer and as required by the UL/CSA certification. This means that the receptacle is only capable of carrying 1/2 it's current rating - 7 1/2 amps. Where higher rated appliances are used like say in a kitchen, this could lead to overheating. Worse, if someone has a heater plugged in and it runs non-stop for long periods of time, that would create an even higher risk of overheating. Note also that the romex/loomex cable sheath does not extend inside the receptacle housing as it is required to.
I've also found two receptacles with reverse polarity and a wire at a breaker in the converter/panel that was completely loose. KZ needs to look at their electrical practices and code compliance. I've also found numerous issues with the 12 volt wiring too. I am NOT impressed. :M
KZ is not alone though. The second photo is from a previous Coachmen Catalina TT that we used to own and you can see the hot wire connected to one terminal only there too. You can also see how the terminal was damaged and it appears that they did not use the correct tool. In two out of two TTs that I've pulled receptacles out of the wall, they've both had the same problem. Not good odds.
Receptacles in RVs are designated "SCD" for self-contained device and do not require an outlet box. These are also use in mobile homes. They are CSA or UL tested and are completely safe to use and do not ever need to be removed and replaced with a residential type (and outlet box) with screw terminals. The MUST be properly installed though and that is where RV factories are at fault. There is a special tool to "punch down" the wires onto the terminals and there is no excuse for not doing it correctly. This catalogue from Hubbell has detailed info. on their Wirecon SCD and explains how they are to be installed.
RVs are required to be wired according to the NEC, which is very detailed on what is required. Plus electrical appliances, wiring devices (recepts. & switches), wire, etc. are required to be UL or CSA certified. The problem is - there is no authority having jurisdiction or electrical engineer that is required to inspect the work for code compliance. To make it even harder, RVs are built in one state and shipped all over the US and to Canada so what AHJ would be responsible? I might consider notifying the electrical safety authority but would it be a state official or would it go to a federal authority?
myredracer wrote:Horizon170 wrote:Lynnmor wrote:
I replaced the cheap junk self contained outlets with real residential outlets in a box. The idea that electricians and inspectors are part of the process is not the reality in the RV business.
I have searched and searched and can not find any U.S.A. made duplex.
I did find a couple of good made in USA used at a thrift store.
May someday we can find new ones made in the USA.
That could be true at the retail/residential level. I would try an electrical wholesaler - where the contractors buy "the good stuff". I've often avoided retail electrical items as sometimes you get what you pay for. Some receptacles are made in the US like in the photo. I have never heard of Trademaster - sounds like a name the Chinese would use (like Chicago Electric, eg., lol). For US made recepts. I would look for Hubbell, Cooper, P&S, etc. which probably means going to "spec. grade."
THE most important thing to know is that any device that carries a UL or CSA marking has gone through a long, detailed and rigorous set of tests in order to become certified and legally able to carry the designation and as a result ensures a level of safety to the public. As Mex mentioned, there are a number of grades of receptacles and have the lowest to higher retention force, larger contact surface area and best (lowest) contact resistance with the best being hospital grade. Being US made doesn't necessarily mean better quality in the case or recepts. Recepts. and other wiring devices MUST be UL or CSA certified to be sold & used in the US and Canada.
Please note that I never mentioned "made is USA" as it is getting to be impossible to buy anything but imported. This thread went from using the type of wire connection to retention force. Pushing a wire into a slot and hoping that the slot doesn't widen or distort too much is not a product I care to use. The majority of my working life was in the connector industry and have built, developed and maintained the dies that produce those slots. All I can say is good luck using them with high loads.
Blacklane wrote:
If you're going to install residential outlets in an RV, at least don't use the screws on the side: use the spring-loaded quick connect kind. Vibration can loosen screws, causing huge risk of arc and fire. That's why RV electrical devices have the punch-down connectors and self-contained boxes that are made to hold the wires in-place.
Sorry, but I can't agree with that. There are many screw terminals in RVs that are just fine. When it comes to a wire-to-wire connection, there is a "vibration-proof" wire nut available (UL/CSA too). It employs a screw connection under the cap.
The back-stab connections on a residential recept. aren't generally well regarded in the elec. biz because they are spring loaded and there's no way of seeing the connection. Fourth pic shows what they look like inside. I'd take an RV SCD recept. connection over one of these any time.
The key to creating a trouble-free connection is doing it properly. There are no shortcuts or excuses. The second pic is from a splice in our TT. This is not the way to do them (have found a few more like this too). Best practice is to "pre-twist" the wires before installing the wire nut. I like to use the vibration-proof set-screw wire nuts in cases like this. How 'bout another example from our TT. Third pic is the #6 + wire from our battery and it simply fell out when I touched it because the factory didn't apply enough force on the crimp. This is potentially serious as it could prevent operation of the brakes if the break-away switch activated from a disconnected hitch while travelling.
Horizon170 wrote:Lynnmor wrote:
I replaced the cheap junk self contained outlets with real residential outlets in a box. The idea that electricians and inspectors are part of the process is not the reality in the RV business.
I have searched and searched and can not find any U.S.A. made duplex.
I did find a couple of good made in USA used at a thrift store.
May someday we can find new ones made in the USA.
That could be true at the retail/residential level. I would try an electrical wholesaler - where the contractors buy "the good stuff". I've often avoided retail electrical items as sometimes you get what you pay for. Some receptacles are made in the US like in the photo. I have never heard of Trademaster - sounds like a name the Chinese would use (like Chicago Electric, eg., lol). For US made recepts. I would look for Hubbell, Cooper, P&S, etc. which probably means going to "spec. grade."
THE most important thing to know is that any device that carries a UL or CSA marking has gone through a long, detailed and rigorous set of tests in order to become certified and legally able to carry the designation and as a result ensures a level of safety to the public. As Mex mentioned, there are a number of grades of receptacles and have the lowest to higher retention force, larger contact surface area and best (lowest) contact resistance with the best being hospital grade. Being US made doesn't necessarily mean better quality in the case or recepts. Recepts. and other wiring devices MUST be UL or CSA certified to be sold & used in the US and Canada.
