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RE: Lithium Batteries

I think the issue is over voltage to the LI battery bank, not protection of the alternator. LI batteries have been known to burn up some alternators due to the high charging demand, they've also been known to draw down tow vehicle batteries due to the higher resting voltage of LiFePO4 vs LA, if left hooked up with the engine off with a constant hot charge wire. There is no overvoltage worries due to the voltage drop on inadequate factory wiring for charging purposes. If you upgraded you wiring such that you could get higher than 14.6V at the batteries then the BMS would kick in on high voltage. For MY application the DC charger is there to actually provide enough amps to charge the batteries while running and isolation from the TV when the engine is off. DC chargers have many benefits and one is absolutely protecting the alternator - https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2019/10/07/careful-alternator-charging-lithium/
01tundra 09/22/20 09:03am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

I'm running a Victron Orion 12/12-18 DC-DC charger with a dedicated 4AWG charging circuit from the truck. I get 25A out of it at peak charging and don't have to worry about the truck's alternator voltage fluctuation or it being harmed. The charger has settings that allow it to sense alternator current to automatically start/stop to prevent the trailer LiFePO4 batteries from drawing down the truck lead acid batteries when the engine is off. https://i.imgur.com/ml8m1FR.jpg https://i.imgur.com/UgJE7fM.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Hu70ssF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JMIFdnW.jpg https://i.imgur.com/xOTYqrf.png
01tundra 09/22/20 06:14am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

And just for the sake of wondering.... for temps that cold, could some sort of heat pad, blanket or bag not be used to keep the lith's warm enough to function properly? (I'm picturing a Domino's pizza delivery electric warmer bag) Or, perhaps, would moving your batt's inside your camper living space. Obviously if you go with the SiO2, your good to go. But for those with Lith's already, are there options if they are occasionally stuck in temps that cold? Or mount them inside the trailer instead of outside, which eliminates the low temp operation issue and increases security. Or buy one of the brands that has internal heaters or use the heating pads offered if you'd prefer to keep them outside. The entire temperature argument is a non-issue in my opinion.
01tundra 09/14/20 09:52am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

What is the advantage to them over Lithium? Is it just cost? Do they provide as much power? As far as power goes 100 amp-hours is 100 amp-hours. However SiO2 may do larger discharge rates than LI. LI appear to be limited to about 1 C. Similar to LI in that partial charging is just fine--though best practise is to do a full charge on a monthly basis. advantages 1. can be used and charged at -40 2. can be run stone bone dead 620 times 3. can do 50% discharge 2800 times 4. no need to stop charging at 90% which LI prefer (for storage) 5. can do 80% discharge 1500 times disadvantages: 1. heavier and larger foot print than Li 2. charge rate 4/c however if one has 300 amp-hours that hardly matters as convert size may not be able to get to 75 amps--without upgrading. In addition to the silicon dioxide battery characteristics that Don lists above, they have one more advantage over lithium batteries that is important to me: Lithium RV batteries hold their output voltage "high" right to the end before recharging ... their output voltage does not taper off a bit as they discharge .... unlike what the output voltage of lead acid batteries and that of silicon dioxide batteries does. To me the output not tapering off - like lithiums do - as they discharge IS NOT preferred ... it's a "disadvantage". It's nice to know when you're getting near the point where recharging is necessary by merely periodically checking the voltage on your RV's battery powered circuit - when that voltage reads around 12 volts, recharge them. As I understand it, silicon dioxide RV batteries act about the same way ... making it very simple to know about when to recharge them. To get around this when switching to lithium RV batteries - in addition to their higher cost - you must spend even more money on what is technically known as an "integrating ammeter". This is a battery monitor that tracks how many amps are removed from the battery bank over time - thus showing how many amp hours have been used out of the battery bank. To me, the above is just another gadget to buy in addition to the high lithium battery initial cost. Why have to purchase an amp hour consumption monitor - when silicon dioxide RV batteries have just about the same performance characteristics (they weigh more than lithium, but they recharge and operate at lower temperatures than lithium) as lithium RV batteries. P.S. For example, I have a lot of lithium battery powered flashlights, remotes, and small tools ... AND IT'S VERY IRRITATING when they surprise you by suddenly dying with very little get-dim/slow-down type discharged warnings. Having a battery monitor "gadget" is an accurate way to monitor the SOC of any type of battery chemistry, including lead acid. Measuring with a volt meter is often misleading and very inaccurate, unless you let the battery sit for a hours at rest. But if you're really stuck on using this inaccurate method, the same can be done with LiFePO4 batteries.....they don't all of the sudden die as you describe. They discharge and have a voltage vs SOC curve just like any other battery. LiFePO4 batteries are a complete different chemistry from Li batteries in flashlights and such. How much personal experience do you have with LiFePO4 batteries in an RV? An integrating ammeter type battery monitor for an LiFePO4 based RV system can be an expensive kindof toy, like so many things that we think we need nowadays. These type ammeters need to be calibrated relative to the actual battery(ies) that you're expecting it to monitor SOC accurately, and they should be recalibrated every once in a while to maintain their SOC accuracy as the capacity of the battery bank declines over time. Lithium iron phosphate based RV/vehicle batteries are advertised to taper their output voltage less obviously than lead acid batteries -> and my lithium ion based small household batteries act that same way relative to the small amount that their output voltage tapers as they discharge and die on me. I know because I measure my lithium ion AA/AAA batteries with a four-place voltmeter. If one believes the performance curves published for LiFePO4 RV batteries, then my point was that this can be a very irritating characteristic because to know SOC one should add a special monitor to one's RV equipment in order to use LiFePO4 batteries in it. To me, it's just another thing to buy, install, and mess with. Regarding my "zero experience" with LiFePO4 RV batteries ... experience is not the only way for one to know all they need to about something. Sometimes all the necessary knowledge can be gained a lot less expensively through what others report on regarding their experimentation and experience. If my current bank of deep cycle Group 31 AGM RV batteries dies before I do, I'll seriously consider several factors before jumping on the hottest RV battery bandwagon. My rig currently has gobs of excess CCCC - so at this point in time based on published specifications only - the new silicon dioxide batteries in drop-in RV sizes read like they have real promise. Our LiFePO4 batteries start at 13.4V @ 100% SOC and are at 12.9V @ 20% SOC (maximum safe discharge floor) under no load. Lead acid is 12.6V @ 100% SOC and 12.2V @ 50% SOC (maximum safe discharge floor)under no load. That's a 0.50V spread for LiFePO4 and 0.40V spread for lead acid. You don't have to have a battery monitor for either chemistry, but if you dry camp a lot and like to really know where your SOC is then you should have one. A Victron BMV-712 monitors either chemistry. Same goes for zero calibration, no difference in requirements. I've had both and I'm stating facts that I've personally measured. I have no hands-on experience with silicon dioxide batteries, so I can't speak to those. For me, the weight savings, quickness of recharging, usable depth of discharge, warranty and customer service provided are all well worth the investment. https://i.imgur.com/qxQRUK1.jpg
01tundra 09/08/20 01:52pm Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

Some of the replies in this thread just like other lithium battery threads are from folks that haven't used LFP but have tons of experience from reading but no hands on. :( But they have phones, flashlights, tools that have a "lithium " chemistry so it must be the same. __________________ 12v 500ah (5,120Wh usable) , 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts) 2s4p. Panels mounted flat on the roof. Magnum PT100 controller, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365 Yep, there's misinformation all over the forums from people who have no direct knowledge of what they are stating assumptions about.....
01tundra 09/08/20 10:54am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

What is the advantage to them over Lithium? Is it just cost? Do they provide as much power? As far as power goes 100 amp-hours is 100 amp-hours. However SiO2 may do larger discharge rates than LI. LI appear to be limited to about 1 C. Similar to LI in that partial charging is just fine--though best practise is to do a full charge on a monthly basis. advantages 1. can be used and charged at -40 2. can be run stone bone dead 620 times 3. can do 50% discharge 2800 times 4. no need to stop charging at 90% which LI prefer (for storage) 5. can do 80% discharge 1500 times disadvantages: 1. heavier and larger foot print than Li 2. charge rate 4/c however if one has 300 amp-hours that hardly matters as convert size may not be able to get to 75 amps--without upgrading. In addition to the silicon dioxide battery characteristics that Don lists above, they have one more advantage over lithium batteries that is important to me: Lithium RV batteries hold their output voltage "high" right to the end before recharging ... their output voltage does not taper off a bit as they discharge .... unlike what the output voltage of lead acid batteries and that of silicon dioxide batteries does. To me the output not tapering off - like lithiums do - as they discharge IS NOT preferred ... it's a "disadvantage". It's nice to know when you're getting near the point where recharging is necessary by merely periodically checking the voltage on your RV's battery powered circuit - when that voltage reads around 12 volts, recharge them. As I understand it, silicon dioxide RV batteries act about the same way ... making it very simple to know about when to recharge them. To get around this when switching to lithium RV batteries - in addition to their higher cost - you must spend even more money on what is technically known as an "integrating ammeter". This is a battery monitor that tracks how many amps are removed from the battery bank over time - thus showing how many amp hours have been used out of the battery bank. To me, the above is just another gadget to buy in addition to the high lithium battery initial cost. Why have to purchase an amp hour consumption monitor - when silicon dioxide RV batteries have just about the same performance characteristics (they weigh more than lithium, but they recharge and operate at lower temperatures than lithium) as lithium RV batteries. P.S. For example, I have a lot of lithium battery powered flashlights, remotes, and small tools ... AND IT'S VERY IRRITATING when they surprise you by suddenly dying with very little get-dim/slow-down type discharged warnings. Having a battery monitor "gadget" is an accurate way to monitor the SOC of any type of battery chemistry, including lead acid. Measuring with a volt meter is often misleading and very inaccurate, unless you let the battery sit for a hours at rest. But if you're really stuck on using this inaccurate method, the same can be done with LiFePO4 batteries.....they don't all of the sudden die as you describe. They discharge and have a voltage vs SOC curve just like any other battery. LiFePO4 batteries are a complete different chemistry from Li batteries in flashlights and such. How much personal experience do you have with LiFePO4 batteries in an RV?
01tundra 09/08/20 07:45am Tech Issues
RE: Nashville

Stay outside and get a ride into town But if you're talking about in the near future you may want to check the current situation.....since most everything downtown is closed or closes early there's not going to be much activity downtown.
01tundra 08/05/20 07:34am RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Lithium Confusion

Unfortunately I need -40. There is at least one LI chemistry that can do that--but nothing in a large format jar. Lithium titanate Do you really need -40? Do you have no water in your rig, only ice? -40 will kill Li batteries. I've boondocked at -37 c (-34 f). That temperature will also kill Li. I've since found a battery chemistry called SiO2 which shares many of the attributes of Li. The differences that I'm aware of at weight (greater than a similar capacity lead acid) and the ability to be used and charged at -40. Some of the shared items are no sulphation, and zero maintenance. That means no more needing to get to 100% state of charge. The SiO2 is about 1/2 the price of Li. It can "do" 900 amps for 5 seconds from a 100 amp jar, which I think is better than Li. Cycle life is 2800 if you don't go below 50% soc, and 1500 if you go down to 20% soc. Best of all, the SiO2 are sold in Canada. $600 ($450 usd) for 100 amp-hours. This is a competitive price with AGM. Mount the batteries inside the trailer?
01tundra 06/11/20 08:06am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Confusion

We are running a PD4655L Wildkat converter set to the li setting. It charges at a constant 14.6V until our single 100AH BattleBorn battery reaches 100% SOC. It starts out pushing 55 amps and then tapers off as the SOC gets higher, once the battery reaches 100% SOC the amperage tapers of to almost zero (usually around 0.25A or so). I let it sit disconnected from the converter somewhere around 70-80% SOC and then charge it before we leave for the next trip, it charges so fast that it's no issue at all.If plugged in running the air conditioner do you disconnect the battery or let it float at 14.6 for the full week? I leave the batteries disconnected at the master switch. No need for them being connected to the system while on shore power.
01tundra 06/05/20 06:24am Tech Issues
RE: Andersen hitch

And I can see how it may help on a lite trailer. Anderson claims its for up to 16,000 lbs GTWR • 1,600 lbs tongue weight. I don't see that and for $600 bucks,well,I guess I've said enough. They do a good job on sway and are light weight, easy to use/store and no disconnect required for backing (vs. some traditional sway bars) so that's the main benefits. I agree, that would be a no-go for a 1,600 lb tongue weight.... I think their niche is small trailers and for people who actually care about payload and are counting every lb. due to the tow vehicle limitations. The Andersen worked great when we had a Jayco Hummingbird with a 480 lb TW and pulling with an FJ Cruiser that had a 1,100 lb payload. Now that we're pulling with a 2500HD and have a TW of 720 lbs it's not as important to us.
01tundra 05/20/20 09:23am Travel Trailers
RE: Andersen hitch

I've said that it may put a slight amount of weight on the front wheels but why buy a set up like that when you can get a Reese strait line or a 4way for around the same price? My argument wasn't just to argue.I would rather steer someone in the right direction and if you all want to blast me for that,then fine. Happy camping and be safe. Remember that these are for trailer with under 1k tongue weight, I would argue closer to 800 lb max. Having said that, 500 lbs of return weight isn't required for this application. I know the Andersen can return 300 lbs per past CAT scale readings, and that's all I needed at the time since our TW was around 500 lbs at the time. Andersen isn't a one size fits all, but for lighter trailers they do the job.
01tundra 05/20/20 08:42am Travel Trailers
RE: Andersen hitch

The tongue and truck are raised to attach the chains. When lowered, the chains become as tight as a bar, not allowing the tongue and the truck to go down as far as they were before attaching the chains, just like any other WDH. The Andersen lowered the front of my truck about an inch. I’m guessing here, but I weigh 165# and I hardly move the front of the truck down standing on the bumper, so I’d say the Andersen restored around 300#, By CAT scales, it definitely put weight back on the front axle and removed weight from the rear axle of my previous truck and helped level it out. Way more than 2 pounds. But that can't be because LITEPHIL said it's not so in his opinion.....
01tundra 05/20/20 08:09am Travel Trailers
RE: Andersen hitch

It doesn't work in his mind because he doesn't understand how it is designed to work. I've ran Andersen no-Sway hitches on three different tow vehicles and two different trailers over a 4+ year period and I can tell you that they absolutely do work and I've never had any issue with them. I have used traditional load bar WD hitches over the years as well. If you have a heavy trailer with a tongue weight over 1k lbs, then an Andersen No-Sway is likely not a good application, anything less and they work wonderfully. So the "expert" on the other thread who is spewing misinformation is either inept or a troll or both.....
01tundra 05/13/20 07:31am Travel Trailers
RE: Sway Problem / Need Help

An Andersen shouldn’t ever be considered if a WDH is needed. It isn’t one. An Andersen No-Sway WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION hitch is exactly that, a weight distribution hitch that also incorporates sway control. I've used one for several years with a few different trailers and tow vehicles. It may not be as efficient at returning weight to the front end of the tow vehicle when used with heavy trailers (i.e., tongue weights greater than 1,000 lbs), but for sub 1,000 lb tongue weights the hitch works wonderful and it absolutely is a weight distribution hitch.
01tundra 05/13/20 07:12am Travel Trailers
RE: Thermometer for fridge?

I've tried just about every one available on Amazon over the years, but finally found a solid performer that doesn't eat batteries and is very accurate. It's a little pricey and the display is via Bluetooth on your phone, but we are extremely happy with it. The Bluetooth signal is strong enough that I can check the temperature from outside the trailer. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AEQ9X9I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://i.imgur.com/7QEiqpt.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JiXT6gi.png
01tundra 04/30/20 07:07am Travel Trailers
RE: Looking for trout in Tennessee

Little Arrow Campground (or the KOA) in Townsend, TN....you're a few miles from the best trout waters in TN and can also easily jump over to NC for a nice day fishing trip. Tons of rivers and streams to choose from and excellent camping also. Most of the streams are wild Brown, Rainbow and Brook trout. Only single hook, artificial bait allowed. And Little River Outfitter in Townsend is one of the best shops around and can provide you with all the info and supplies you could ever want, great people.
01tundra 04/26/20 10:59am RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Lithium Confusion

We are running a PD4655L Wildkat converter set to the li setting. It charges at a constant 14.6V until our single 100AH BattleBorn battery reaches 100% SOC. It starts out pushing 55 amps and then tapers off as the SOC gets higher, once the battery reaches 100% SOC the amperage tapers of to almost zero (usually around 0.25A or so). I let it sit disconnected from the converter somewhere around 70-80% SOC and then charge it before we leave for the next trip, it charges so fast that it's no issue at all.
01tundra 04/21/20 08:05am Tech Issues
RE: Amp hours

The Victron BMV current readings for our particular trailer - https://i.imgur.com/Fiqyvj1.png https://i.imgur.com/IAI1h1Q.png https://i.imgur.com/MdpQSpx.png
01tundra 04/21/20 07:33am Travel Trailers
RE: Best charge controllers..

Has anyone experience with either -Victron MPPT 100/30 -Eco-Worthy 40A MPPT Both seem to have impressive built in bluetooth displays. Victron may have a 5 year warranty. Not exactly, but we've been very happy with our Victron SmartSolar 75/15. We have it on the Victron network with our BMV-712 battery monitor so it can adjust for temperature. https://i.imgur.com/zbIXn0i.jpg
01tundra 02/06/20 01:32pm Tech Issues
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