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RE: Lithium Batteries

3 tons, I'm wondering about your last sentence above. Doesn't your 9245 automatically drop back to a 13.XX volt float voltage at some point when it's charging batteries? I believe that LiFePo4 batteries have a recommended float voltage such that they can be left hooked up full time to a converter/charger that eventually settles at their float voltage, just like any other type of battery. For instance Battle Born LiFePo4 batteries can be floated at 13.6 volts or lower indefinitely according to their specifications, so you shouldn't have to disconnect them from your 9245 when it drops down to it's float voltage. As for when driving with the engine alternator hooked up to the batteries, after just a few minutes when things are warmed up, our RV's alternator settles in around to the mid-13's in voltage, anyway. True with the 9245!....(except for the 21hr/15 min equalization cycle)...This is why I prefer the standard charger (with charge wizard in boost mode) to PD’s LiFePo4 offering, but once the battery has charged (and subsequently finished it’s BMS dance whereby current and voltage values briefly alternate..), I simply disconnect the battery (via basic knob switch atop battery post)...I mostly dry camp, so rely on solar and battery...
3 tons 09/18/20 11:14am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

I remember reading a thread on another forum that the person added a on/ off switch on the dash so that the charging to the batteries could be turned off during the drive so not to hold the batteries at a high voltage once it was charged. I don't remember all the exact details. And a possibly more temporary option might be to simply pull the trailer power supply fuse (normally supplies the 7 pin plug) inside the under-hood fuse box - there’s usually a printed fuse diagram just inside the lid... 3 tons
3 tons 09/18/20 11:00am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

Not being an electrician I don’t completely understand your question. Are you asking about the existing Converter in the motorhome? If so it’s a PD4560 by Progressive Dynamics. It’s basically the entire 110 volt and 12 volt electrical panel all in one with the converter built into the panel. The one I have has the switch to turn it to Lithium mode. Per their website having that switch is an option. So luckily for me Nexus ordered the panels with that option. So I’m good for charging the batteries with the generator or when I’ve got 110 power. But I have a residential fridge so I want the batteries to charge from the alternator too because on long drives there will always be a draw on them otherwise. I understand it may not fully charge the batteries, but as long as it keeps them going. So I went to the PD site but did not see any algo specifics on the 4560 https://www.progressivedyn.com/lithium-battery-power-centers/ When PD ‘suggest’ they’ve worked with several LiFePo4 manufacturers, this simply means that they’ve decided on a constant ON 14.4v charge methodology (with no programmability, the easy way out $$), but understand that Li’s don’t like to be stored for an extended period in this way - in fact, in some of their other chargers 14.4v is stated to be an equalization mode (i.e. every 21hrs/15 min for lead acid batts). So I’ll just assume the 4560 has the same algo as their Li 9100-L series which simply remains at a constant 14.4v throughout the entire charge and never shuts down - ordinarily not an ideal plan IF left continuously on, but since you have a compressor refer (duty cycle enters the pic) I would think that this concern becomes a lesser issue...JMO My main grievance with these ‘so called’ LiFePo4 chargers is their lack of programmability, thus I just stayed with my 9245 (with charge wizard in 14.4v boost) and (when on shore power) just added a simple battery post disconnect to prevent extended charging.... 3 tons
3 tons 09/18/20 09:25am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

She wants to keep the charging to 50 amps each so 100a for the two. Meanwhile there have been posts that the alternator will fry from trying to charge the thirsty Li house batts. Sounds like the way to go is disconnect/disable alternator charging and just leave in the Aux start from the house feature if ever needed. X2, 50a per battery is a conservative rate that’ll never but your pricey batteries at any risk, and the actual receptivity rate will typically be even lower (depending on SOC) ..Due to Li’s high receptivity rate, if you have a decent amount of solar (as a fellow Nevadan - lol) you’ll likely not get much value outta the vehicle’s alternator anyway... I would however be interested to know what brand or model of switchable charger your rig has - would be nice to understand the Li charger’s stated algorithm...Of the one’s I’ve considered, most tend to be of the ‘one size fits all’ variety...JMO Congrats, 3 tons
3 tons 09/17/20 07:28pm Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

Now entering the FDZ (fascinating discourse zone), I’ve just donned my tin-foil hat - lol 3 tons
3 tons 09/15/20 08:34pm Tech Issues
RE: 2013 Lance 1172 compatibility with Lithium ion batteries

Hey 3 tons, I'm struggling with extended (weeks, months) with my 2 LiFePo4 batteries in my Northstar. I also have small parasitic draws that discharge the batteries over the course of several weeks. And I don't want to disconnect the batteries as my Pioneer stereo takes me 15 minutes with the manual to get demo mode off, dazzling display lights off, all four speakers working..... every time I disconnect it from the batteries. I currently have a Progressive Dynamics 45A LiFePo4 converter. The problem with the PD LiFePo4 chargers is that they charge at 14.6v - all the time. So if I leave the camper plugged in, it will sit at 14.6v as long as it's plugged in. Bad for LiFePo4 batteries. I found that the WFCO 50A LiFePo4 replacement converter/charger section charges at 14.6v for 4 hours, then drops down to 13.6v as long as the camper stays plugged in. If the camper is unplugged and plugged back in, it will again charge at 14.6v for 4 hours, then drop to 13.6v until the camper is unplugged. Perfect for leaving it plugged in for extended lengths of time. Here's a link to an interview with the CEO of Battle Born batteries. His comments on long term battery storage start at 12:50. Comments specific to longterm float at 13.6 are at 14:30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywn-vBjKblI ScottI believe the PD has a jumper to revert to the normal 3 stage charging. FAR better than the actual lithium profile. Boondocker spends just 15 minutes at 14.6 volts and IMO much better than the 4 hour WFCO. That’s good to be aware of! ...I not too familiar with Boondocker but note that for some LiFePo4’s 14.6v is at the BMS charge cut-off point - always best to first check the battery’s specs - just saying, “trust but verify” - lol 3 tons
3 tons 09/15/20 04:12pm Truck Campers
RE: 2013 Lance 1172 compatibility with Lithium ion batteries

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE QUICK REPLIES. I found that the PD converter 4000 I have will NOT, HANDLE LITHIUM, LIPOF4, ETC batteries. Also, my solar charge controller may not handle either. So i am reluctant to put a lot of money in upgrading due to age of camper. I will likely go to 2 AGM Group 27 batteries, so if any suggestions on good ones of those let me know. thanks again....will know now that there is more to it than meets the eye. I am glad I did not buy Lithium without checking. Steve Wrong, Someone is providing some thoroughly ‘unqualified’ advice (seems par for the course with ‘black box’ Li magic - lol)..Your PD 4000 series will do just fine with Lithium so long as you have the optional Charge Wizard dongle, and by merely switching it into the Boost Mode which is 14.4v - this is precisely how I charge my battery using a old school PD 9245, then simply discontinue the charging, and this is also why PD’s Li specific charger adds little value to the Li charging proposition (except for marketing $$ - because it never bleaping shuts down!!)... The same is true with your solar charger(s) assuming that they can output 14.4v and can be switched off sometime after the charging cycle... 14.4v is the main criteria - truly a no brainer...To summarize, all you need is 14.4v and your PD 4000 series does this... https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/power-converters/inteli-power-4600-series/#charge-wizard 3 tons
3 tons 09/15/20 03:01pm Truck Campers
RE: Lithium Batteries

“ That sums it up pretty well, as a part time camper the dropin lfp cost doesn't offset the benefits for your needs.” If one’s looking for a Boogieman, they’ll tend to find one behind every tree... 3 tons Well ... there's a whole area of engineering that addresses reliability of complex systems ... and what makes up a "complex system" is a whole lot of separate components that all have to function or the whole system fails. ;) You might be pointing to say the evolutionary path of the transistor, lap-top computer, or fly by wire commercial airliner, all ‘solid examples’ of how engineering meets these not so insurmountable challenges...I suspect that at this juncture LiFePo4 failure analysis has become a rather mature subject matter as indicated by Lithium batteries aboard Boeing’s own aircraft...JMO 3 tons
3 tons 09/15/20 12:38pm Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

“ That sums it up pretty well, as a part time camper the dropin lfp cost doesn't offset the benefits for your needs.” If one’s looking for a Boogieman, they’ll tend to find one behind every tree... 3 tons
3 tons 09/15/20 12:10pm Tech Issues
RE: 2013 Lance 1172 compatibility with Lithium ion batteries

Hey 3 tons, I'm struggling with extended (weeks, months) with my 2 LiFePo4 batteries in my Northstar. I also have small parasitic draws that discharge the batteries over the course of several weeks. And I don't want to disconnect the batteries as my Pioneer stereo takes me 15 minutes with the manual to get demo mode off, dazzling display lights off, all four speakers working..... every time I disconnect it from the batteries. I currently have a Progressive Dynamics 45A LiFePo4 converter. The problem with the PD LiFePo4 chargers is that they charge at 14.6v - all the time. So if I leave the camper plugged in, it will sit at 14.6v as long as it's plugged in. Bad for LiFePo4 batteries. I found that the WFCO 50A LiFePo4 replacement converter/charger section charges at 14.6v for 4 hours, then drops down to 13.6v as long as the camper stays plugged in. If the camper is unplugged and plugged back in, it will again charge at 14.6v for 4 hours, then drop to 13.6v until the camper is unplugged. Perfect for leaving it plugged in for extended lengths of time. Here's a link to an interview with the CEO of Battle Born batteries. His comments on long term battery storage start at 12:50. Comments specific to longterm float at 13.6 are at 14:30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywn-vBjKblI Scott Well, since you’ve mentioned that the PD charger stays on indefinitely, I would assume that your camper has access to shore power while it storage... The problem with most dedicated Li chargers is that there’s no such thing as a ‘one size fits all’ charger algorithm due to a lack of a common convention by the various battery manufactures - thus, the charger guys are left to ‘going it alone’ with their whatever in house LiFePo4 algorithms....The PD unit would be much improved if they’d add a timer, but then the timer would need to be triggered by a reference point... You could always just add a corded timer from a big box store, but would still need a reference point to achieve unattended charging...I agree that theres no point in leaving the charger ON once charging is complete, thus the necessity to determine when the battery is FULLY charged, and BMS balanced...A float mode is inconsequential (i.e. not needed)... The Victron BMV 712 meter has a genny start signal output that could be repurposed for the charger (say on either the 120v or the 12v sides) but you’d need a relay, and a high amperage relay (say, of up to 1C) can get a bit pricy... You might consider adding a battery disconnect atop the batt pos post (see my previous..), and then just keep the PD Converter-charger ON when in storage - this should keep the interior lights on and your stereo programming intact... Without a Li capable meter (like Victron’s or equiv.) you can monitor battery voltage (near the rapid conclusion of ‘upward’ voltage rise) with a VOM to ascertain when the battery has fully charged (resting at 14.4’ish), shortly after which the BMS will begin it’s ‘balancing dance’ evidenced by voltage (and current...) alternatively dipping and recovering - this process might complete itself in say just a few brief minutes...Once voltage finally ‘remains’ stable, this balancing act is complete... This is the methodology that I use, and for ‘extended long term’ storage I purposefully deplete the battery down to about a 50% state of charge (SOC), then do a disconnect - 50% (approx), a state of ion equilibrium that minimizes the possibility of harmful dendrite formation, and extends battery life... 3 tons
3 tons 09/15/20 11:40am Truck Campers
RE: Lithium Batteries

3 tons, Li are the future. There is one chemistry that can be used and charged at -40 Ha, well the optimist in me predicts that some future innovation will far exceed the utility and value proposition of Li, but in the mean time my plan will simply be to avoid cryogenic landscapes !! 3 tons - in the High Nevada Desert :)
3 tons 09/15/20 01:17am Tech Issues
RE: 2013 Lance 1172 compatibility with Lithium ion batteries

Yes, I have a single 200a/hr LiFePo4 battery installed in my 2009 Eagle Cap...I’ve also retained the OEM Progressive Dynamics 9245 converter-charger...Also, determining SOC (state of charge) with lithium can be a bit problematic (due to a nearly flat voltage discharge profile), so I solved this malady with Victron BMV 712 SOC meter (lithium capable), which also has a uber detailed smart phone bluetooth display... For details on charging, my camper has a few parasitical drains, even when the master switch is turned off...Add to this that my truck doesn’t have a battery isolation switch, so over a time (shore power off to avoid unnecessary charging) the LiFePo4 battery’s SOC would very slowly drift down... With wet cells this scenario would never present a problem because storage is with shore power, and the converter-charger would simply maintain the battery in a 13.6v float condition, no matter...However, with LiFePo4, storing a RV in continuous float mode is detrimental to longevity, thus not a good option... My solution was to simply ‘isolate the battery’ when camper is in storage because of Li’s uber low naturally occurring voltage loss, and because theres no need to equalize Li (an OEM conventional charger algorithm) ...Because I have 440w of solar, and because Li recharges fairly fast, I have no real need to be connected to the vehicle’s charging system...So to isolate the battery I simply disconnected the charging circuit wire from the vehicle, and added a basic knob-type disconnect switch (ebay) atop the battery’s *positive post (*as recommended per Victron BMV 712 manual) - Battery isolated! Now, when I store the camper (in my RV garage) I FIRST deplete the battery to about the 50% SOC range, then isolate the battery via this disconnect switch...In this way, shore power still operates the camper’s OEM on-board converter-charger, which provides both 120v and 12v to the camper for lighting, etc... When isolated in this fashion, the Li battery will hibernate at about this SOC mid-point (ions equally distributed between anode and cathode) for an extremely long period of time... Feel free to PM me if you have other questions regarding actual experience... 3 tons
3 tons 09/14/20 05:43pm Truck Campers
RE: Lithium Batteries

I very much applaud the benefits of having many different battery type options, and can certainly appreciate the temp advantage of SiO2 in sub-zero weather, but in terms of Occam’s Razor (marketplace dominance: ‘cost per stated performance’ = value) one might conclude a far more ubiquitous, moderate climate application of SiO2, yet this his not proved to be the case...Just an observation from the lower 48... 3 tons
3 tons 09/14/20 02:01pm Tech Issues
RE: Battery observations

My BD/Vector 1093 mostly just throws F codes and serves mostly as a pricy paper weight. Thankfully I have several other chargers that can sometimes fool the BD out of it’s predictable slumber... 3 tons
3 tons 09/13/20 08:32am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

No doubt ‘Battery Wars’ are likely to continue, but in the end it’s the wants and needs of the ‘End User’ that drives innovation and ultimately marketplace offerings - from this perspective, the more choices the better off we are - it’s in this way that everybody wins!! 3 tons
3 tons 09/08/20 09:45pm Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

Per P-tuna: “ I do know that published statistics are always going to be the "most favorable" .... Agreed, thus one might ‘rationally conclude’ that this rule applies to all products (e.g. battery types), eh?? Either way, kudos to the silicon dioxide option! - looking forward to reading some more detailed reviews... 3 tons
3 tons 09/07/20 04:01pm Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

“ As far as power goes 100 amp-hours is 100 amp-hours. However SiO2 may do larger discharge rates than LI. LI appear to be limited to about 1 C. ” For clarity only, Per BattleBorn specs, “2C for 30 sec” (with nearly stable voltage), but I’m not sure how this compares with silicon dioxide? Either way, it appears Silicon Dioxide is a viable LiFePo4 alternative based on both cost and on cold weather charging-discharging characteristics... JMHO 3 tons
3 tons 09/07/20 11:43am Tech Issues
RE: Aftermarket wheels

I see guys with lifted trucks running aftermarket, lug-centric, cast wheels and big ol tires with an Arctic Fox and I think to myself...Yeah, it looks cool, but there's no way that high centered mass lumbering down a hwy would remain upright should a wheel failure occur. I just don't get it. Yet lots of fellow TC'ers seem to applaud it. Ha, I think they’re in heavy competition for the Darwin Award - lol 3 tons
3 tons 09/06/20 11:59pm Truck Campers
RE: RV Batteries - Lithium as Option

“ Does anyone see an issue with this approach?“ YES, you’ll be starving-out the good guys at PG&E - lol !!.... Not a problem so long as your battery manufacturer’s specs allow for parallel connection...Might be a good time to consider an upgrade of your cables as well... 3 tons
3 tons 09/06/20 10:28pm Tech Issues
RE: NEED ADVICE !Brand New F-450 and Host Mammoth

Add a leaf to the existing springs. Add Timbrins. As a former Air Mobility Command Unit Member (RET), X2 - foolproof and no breakdowns = no FUBAR morning after sickness... https://timbren.com/ 3 tons
3 tons 09/06/20 05:12pm Truck Campers
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