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RE: Effect of no absorption on LiFePo4?

Iternate1 said, “There have been many times in these LFP threads that I start to write a response then delete it. You seem to handle the misinfo well that gets posted.” Well, know you’re post have been invaluable so I hope you will continue to persevere, and by all means feel free to correct me where I stray - it’s much appreciated…I think we just continue to confront the few (established profiled) LFP mis-info merchants and their faux ‘plausible interest’ mischief - sadly, just part and parcel of an open forum… Very Respectfully, 3 tons
3 tons 01/27/23 10:27am Tech Issues
RE: Effect of no absorption on LiFePo4?

And we all gotta go through a little experience with something new before learning or knowing what to expect and how to deal with or maintain it. My response above is for the RV power “experts” if you will, who can’t seem to not go down rabbit holes. Kindly sensing your frustration, consider (in the interest of a somewhat wider info-seeking audience…) that one man’s rabbit hole might very well be another man’s ‘go to’… Admittedly, I sometimes provide the ugly details, but mostly to help dampen the ‘recurring, made-up’ LFP mis-information from growing recurring legs (as has happened on LFP ad nauseam - a seasoned pattern of nuisance thread misdirects by interlopers) JMHO… 3 tons - Guilty as Charged
3 tons 01/26/23 01:18pm Tech Issues
Useful LFP Info

Now a much better LiFePo4 (LFP) understanding from makers of BattleBorn: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IDwiV7HBPsU&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.truckcamperadventure.com%2F&feature=emb_rel_end 3 tons
3 tons 01/26/23 09:57am Tech Issues
RE: Effect of no absorption on LiFePo4?

Good lord… add this to Dedmiston’s list of things men will over analyze and pick to death! You have LFP batteries. Make sure they are relatively or fully charged, make sure they’re disconnected or no draw and then don’t think about them until you need them again Ha!! In actual practice so TRUE!!…Thanks for distilling this down it’s most Critical Basics!! :B 3 tons
3 tons 01/23/23 12:32pm Tech Issues
RE: Effect of no absorption on LiFePo4?

It seems like you're confusing my post with Don's, I didn't say anything about a "calendar-scheduled approach…". The Battery Management System (BMS) in all LiFePO4 batteries has a cell balancer built into it and it works every time the battery is charged completely. Some batteries (like Battleborn) need an absorption stage to give the balancer more time to work; they typically only balance at 500mA so it can take awhile. Its transparent to most battery owners unless they have a BMS that displays battery cell voltages. Its all in the specs of the battery you buy, if it doesn't say anything about an absorption stage then you…. Bruce Not intended, I was merely speaking to the broader audience, primarily revisiting the so-called every 30 day approach which Don had mentioned (Don has once before stated “every 7 days” applies…(FWIW, I disagree)…Yep, the balancing phase (at 14.x volts, whatever phase one opts to call it…) is relatively transparent - this is why I always recommend a Smart-Shunt so one can observe the occurrence and completion of re-balancing…Depending on the several previous variables I’d mentioned, this can take from several minutes to say roughly 20 min or so, often depending on battery capacity… 3 tons
3 tons 01/22/23 07:46pm Tech Issues
RE: Effect of no absorption on LiFePo4?

Some LiFePo4 batteries recommend an absorption stage, it gives the BMS cell balancer time to work. The voltage region that most BMS balancers work in is so high on the charge curve that actual balancing might only last a minute or two. Here's what Battleborn recommends: https://battlebornbatteries.com/programming-a-victron-smartsolar-charge-controller/ Bruce Be advised, we are not talking rocket science here (except to those few FWC die-hards who snub a different approach). Note that many charge controllers (as is Victron’s) are user configurable for a LiFePo4 battery format, and this configurability feature is why the moniker of ‘Absorption’ is used…Whether one cares to call it absorption or bulk (no matter…), a voltage somewhere in the high 13 teen’s to the mid 14 teen’s, not to exceed 14.6v (constant voltage, constant current) is all that’s really needed (higher voltage = faster charge)… And, cell balancing need only be done periodically…How so?? From my own observed experience, the need for rebalancing is a function of say number of ‘less than FULL charge/discharge’ cycles, and % of ‘depth of discharges’…From my perspective, and in the added interest of longevity, this is a far more cogent approach than some thoughtless ‘one size fits all’ (made-up…) calendar-scheduled approach… 3 tons
3 tons 01/22/23 06:28pm Tech Issues
RE: Effect of no absorption on LiFePo4?

Time2roll, I have seen articles that suggest every 30 cycles or days that the bank be balanced. “I have seen articles”?? Don, this has been addressed here by ‘actual users’ (meaning, not by you) on post that I know you’ve even past authored…I hate to resort to this, but perhaps (once and for all) maybe consider avoiding the impulse at offering near endless LFP controversy or disinformation - as you’re well aware, this particular has already been clarified… Very Respectfully, 3 tons
3 tons 01/22/23 12:30pm Tech Issues
RE: Effect of no absorption on LiFePo4?

Charging to 14.4 on any regular basis as described by the OP is sufficient to keep the cells balanced. There is no recommendation to periodically change the charging cycle for balancing. Yes if the battery is short charged to 13.6 or less it may or may not get any balancing from the BMS. Could go years like that without issue. The primary time balance can be a critical process is when the battery is first assembled to verify the cells are at the same level to start with. X2….Mythology has it that LFP’s are in someway ‘fussy’ to charge when in fact (except for cold weather charge constraint) the opposite is true… OP suggest he may have ‘damaged’ his batteries (how so??)…The basics are, don’t exceed 14.6v, don’t equalize, float at or below 13.6v (or not at all), don’t leave on charger for an extended period of time (say, once fully charged), no need for a full charge except for occasional cell re-balancing and (if applicable) SOC meter resynchronizations… Applying this basic charge regime is a minor price to pay which negates conventional battery maintenance and achieve faster charge recovery times and a far deeper depth of discharge.. 3 tons
3 tons 01/22/23 10:15am Tech Issues
RE: Help - jacks are draining my batteries

Regardless of the seemingly recent shelf date on your batteries or the voltage readout (at best, a marginal estimator of true battery condition…) using only the principle of Occam's Razor (from afar…) I’d say (from same issue past experience…) the root problem is that your batteries are near dead, yet ostensibly appearing satisfactory per voltage readout - Try as you might, wet-cells can act like this - this very situation is NOT unique or uncommon, and is a precursor to an internal cell or post connector failure. The fact that the batteries ‘appear’ satisfactory yet are not (“say it ain’t so”!!) is from my perspective the true source of your dreaded frustration…JMHO 3 tons This would certainly be the easiest solution, but I can't help thinking (perhaps because I'm a little out of my element on some of this) that if they were "near dead" this would/should somehow show up, at least a little bit, on either the load test or the specific gravity (both were fine)? Specific gravity no, carbon-pile load test ‘maybe’ but not always - this is why in my previous I suggested (assuming you are slightly handy…) acquiring a clamp-on ac-dc type meter of sufficient amperage capacity (say, from HD or similar)…Note that not all clamp-on meters are dc capable, and ‘for dc’ service be sure to follow the meter’s clamp-on directional orientation instructions…Clamping it around one of the battery cables (while under load…) will tell the tale - but first try to locate jack motor amperage specs…Worse case scenario is that you’ll end up with a relatively decent meter for future use, yea!! (or maybe return it - I donno??)… Note: the meter can also be used to determine receptive charge amps into the battery…No substitute for solid data… 3 tons Having thought about this over night, an alternative to using the aforementioned clamp-on meter would be to obtain a Victron Smart-Shunt (w/ Bluetooth - installs in NEG batt cable) which would provide the same information (and much more!) via Smart phone - this would also provide you information on an ongoing basis with SOC (state of charge in %), volts, amps available and consumed and history. 3 tons
3 tons 01/21/23 09:12am Truck Campers
RE: Help - jacks are draining my batteries

Regardless of the seemingly recent shelf date on your batteries or the voltage readout (at best, a marginal estimator of true battery condition…) using only the principle of Occam's Razor (from afar…) I’d say (from same issue past experience…) the root problem is that your batteries are near dead, yet ostensibly appearing satisfactory per voltage readout - Try as you might, wet-cells can act like this - this very situation is NOT unique or uncommon, and is a precursor to an internal cell or post connector failure. The fact that the batteries ‘appear’ satisfactory yet are not (“say it ain’t so”!!) is from my perspective the true source of your dreaded frustration…JMHO 3 tons This would certainly be the easiest solution, but I can't help thinking (perhaps because I'm a little out of my element on some of this) that if they were "near dead" this would/should somehow show up, at least a little bit, on either the load test or the specific gravity (both were fine)? Specific gravity no, carbon-pile load test ‘maybe’ but not always - this is why in my previous I suggested (assuming you are slightly handy…) acquiring a clamp-on ac-dc type meter of sufficient amperage capacity (say, from HD or similar)…Note that not all clamp-on meters are dc capable, and ‘for dc’ service be sure to follow the meter’s clamp-on directional orientation instructions…Clamping it around one of the battery cables (while under load…) will tell the tale - but first try to locate jack motor amperage specs…Worse case scenario is that you’ll end up with a relatively decent meter for future use, yea!! (or maybe return it - I donno??)… Note: the meter can also be used to determine receptive charge amps into the battery…No substitute for solid data… 3 tons
3 tons 01/20/23 06:52pm Truck Campers
RE: Help - jacks are draining my batteries

I’m definitely with Bigfootford, but my question is this..Are you using all four jacks simultaneously or just two at a time? Also, it’s not a common practice to use an electric drill unless your batteries are low or failing…Be advised that a Auto-Zone type carbon-pile load test is not always to be relied upon as a true representation of actual loading…If possible you could try measuring battery output (while under load) using a clamp-on ac-dc volt-current meter - make sure that your meter is ‘truly dc current capable’ and of sufficient amperage…A meter of this type is still cheaper than new batteries and should readily tell you what you need to know.. Also, when using meter in ‘dc mode’, be certain to position the meter in the proper current direction - follow carefully the meter’s instructions … 3 tons I am using all 4 jacks simultaneously. Maybe a little overly simplistic way of thinking about it (and also maybe a little out of my element here) but it seems like the same amount of power/energy is needed to raise/lower the camper, so whether you break it into pieces (1 or 2 at a time) or do it all at the same time (all 4 jacks) shouldn't matter all that much. If I'm wrong, and doing 1 or 2 at a time would help solve my problem, please let me know. I only asked the question to aid with diagnostics from a distance (available current supplied…). Having said that, my personal preference (due to TC weight) is to operate only two jacks at time per each end (say, inch by inch…) - JMO Sorry for any confusion :) 3 tons
3 tons 01/20/23 06:31pm Truck Campers
RE: Help - jacks are draining my batteries

Regardless of the seemingly recent shelf date on your batteries or the voltage readout (at best, a marginal estimator of true battery condition…) using only the principle of Occam's Razor (from afar…) I’d say (from same issue past experience…) the root problem is that your batteries are near dead, yet ostensibly appearing satisfactory per voltage readout - Try as you might, wet-cells can act like this - this very situation is NOT unique or uncommon, and is a precursor to an internal cell or post connector failure. The fact that the batteries ‘appear’ satisfactory yet are not (“say it ain’t so”!!) is from my perspective the true source of your dreaded frustration…JMHO 3 tons
3 tons 01/20/23 05:41pm Truck Campers
RE: Help - jacks are draining my batteries

I’m definitely with Bigfootford, but my question is this..Are you using all four jacks simultaneously or just two at a time? Also, it’s not a common practice to use an electric drill unless your batteries are low or failing…Be advised that a Auto-Zone type carbon-pile load test is not always to be relied upon as a true representation of actual loading…If possible you could try measuring battery output (while under load) using a clamp-on ac-dc volt-current meter - make sure that your meter is ‘truly dc current capable’ and of sufficient amperage…A meter of this type is still cheaper than new batteries and should readily tell you what you need to know.. Also, when using meter in ‘dc mode’, be certain to position the meter in the proper current direction - follow carefully the meter’s instructions … 3 tons
3 tons 01/20/23 12:53pm Truck Campers
RE: Help - jacks are draining my batteries

Run the generator while removing the camper. That was my first thought as well but, unfortunately, the jacks only draw from the battery. So whether I am connected to the truck, gens or shore power while loading/unloading, the jacks discharge the batteries much faster than the truck/gen/shore can replenish. If you have the 12v DC charging cord for your generator, try hooking it directly to your camper batteries while running your generator rather than running it through your converter when raising or lowering your camper? FWIW, the 12v dc current output from my honda 2200i generator falls far short of the current output from my OEM 45a Progressive Dynamics converter charger…Either way, the owners manual belonging to my truck camper specifies not to operate jacks from any source other than the batteries… 3 tons
3 tons 01/19/23 03:04pm Truck Campers
RE: Help - jacks are draining my batteries

I’ve periodically lifted and lowered my #4400 (dry) Eagle Cap camper off and on for 13 years, mostly using two Interstate or Costco golf cart batteries (but since having switched to lithium :) )…I’ve never had the problem your having EXCEPT when a cell or two was getting weak on the golf cart batteries, in which case even the slideout struggled…The fix was to replace the wet-cell batteries…BTW, the batteries showed no other indication of weakness ‘whatsoever’!! Time to get new batteries… 3 tons
3 tons 01/19/23 02:03pm Truck Campers
RE: Inverter install

OP appears to be a ‘drive by’…. 3 tons
3 tons 01/13/23 06:10pm Truck Campers
RE: Inverter install

The simplest and safest approved way would be to install a power sensing ATS switch to avoid accidental sinusoidal (AC) conflicts… Your camper may (or may not) already have one ATS switch installed used to separate the generator from shore power…If so, the new ATS switch would be wired, generator output (from factory ATS) to IN (in, in lieu of shore power), Inverter IN, and new ATS output to main panel…IF no existing ATS present, then using new ATS switch, Shore power (or corded generator…) IN, Inverter IN, and ATS Output to main panel… In this way it’s purely a passive operation… The potential downside here is that the inverter (via the main panel) will want to charge the batteries (a round-robin affair) so you’ll need to switch off the converter-charger… https://www.bestconverter.com/PD-5100-Series-30-Amp-Transfer-Relay-PD5110010Q_p_28.html#.Y73MOy-Ibi0 3 tons
3 tons 01/10/23 01:54pm Truck Campers
RE: cheap solar panels

Well how ‘bout a game changing Lithium Higgs Boson (LHB) battery technology that promises twice the energy density of old school LiFePo4’s at less than half the weight, over 30,000 zero to 100% SOC cycles, whereby the effects of aging is offset harnessing the physics of neutrino-streaming immersion! - in addition, cost per watt hour (a function of longevity…) reaches an all time new low..The holy grail of solutions has FINALLY been achieved for both recreational users and for large scale off-hour green energy storage!! toogoodtobetrue.com 3 tons
3 tons 01/08/23 11:46am Tech Issues
RE: Broken Frame on a RAM 3500

Wonder if this is related to the Frame Flex (or lack of) shown in this video? https://youtu.be/_f3CAnH7WIM That clip demonstrates the uber strength of RAM’s hydro-formed frame, but if used improperly, ain’t nothing infallible… 3 tons Too stiff can be bad as it lets you get into the material fatigue zone more quickly. That may be why chassis/cab trucks use less rigid C-channel frames with thicker steel. Better to flex than break. True enough, that’s why widgets need to be used per their manufacturer’s stated ratings, though I’ll stop short of speculating on (e.g. as out side of my lane…) the purported merits of C-channel vs Hydro-formed frames - Fact is, none of us here are privy to whatever the ‘failure chain’ was that took place - most likely it was due to a multiplicity of issues…JMO 3 tons
3 tons 01/07/23 11:14am Truck Campers
RE: Broken Frame on a RAM 3500

Wonder if this is related to the Frame Flex (or lack of) shown in this video? https://youtu.be/_f3CAnH7WIM That clip demonstrates the uber strength of RAM’s hydro-formed frame, but if used improperly, ain’t nothing infallible… 3 tons
3 tons 01/07/23 09:32am Truck Campers
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