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RE: 2023 Power Stroke vs 2023 Ram Cummins Towing Challenge
^^^You can call it programming or whatever but it comes down to power. I don't know what grade the hill was that he was pulling but to pull a 14,000 lb trailer up a steep hill at 110 kph takes a lot of power. He was comparing a 385 HP Ram to a 500 HP Ford.... and he says it didn't pull as well on account of the 6 speed transmission,:S.
OK, explain why he had only 22psi boost?
I think he said 24 psi boost at one point. At 2000 rpm the standard output Cummins is not tuned to produce a whole lot of torque ….. no more than the 850 lbft peak torque it makes at 1800 rpm. Does the Cummins need more than 24 psi boost to make 320 hp at 2000 rpm?
The thing is the standard output Cummins is only able to produce about 320 Hp at 2000 rpm and he’s comparing that to a high output Powerstroke that should be able to produce about 420 Hp at 1900 rpm.
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4x4ord
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07/26/23 08:26am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Anyone tried double towing in BC Canada?
I built one:
https://i.imgur.com/UfYhFCwl.jpg
My problem is that I want to bring my wife’s bike as well. Although the lift on the back of my fifth wheel works alright and is legal in BC, hauling the bikes in my enclosed trailer while towing it behind the fifth wheel is much safer … problem with the double towing is it’s too long to be legal in Alberta and too illegal to be legal in BC. So far I’ve never been hassled over the length in Alberta.
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4x4ord
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07/24/23 10:01pm |
Towing
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RE: '22 3500HD Denali question
^^^ You’re in for a treat.
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4x4ord
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07/24/23 04:47pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: '22 3500HD Denali question
Since I haven't yet towed with the '22 3500 Denali, does the L5P have a "sweet spot" like the older Duramaxes do? My '02, when towing, seems to have a sweet spot right about 62 mph, max. I lose 1-1.5 mpg towing at 65. First tow will be in 2 weeks, so I'll see how it goes. I'll stick with 65 and see. Endurance tires are 81 mph rated, so no issues there.
Lyle
To loose about 1/2 mpg due to increasing your speed from 62 mph to 65 would be expected on account of the increased drag. Loosing more than that would be from the engine running at a less efficient rpm. But, increasing an engine's rpm by 5%, so say from 1500 rpm to 1575 rpm) you sure wouldn't expect to see its efficiency drop by 5 or 10%. Two basic rules that apply to fuel economy are:
1. a diesel engine is efficient at making power when loaded heavy .... higher rpm at a lighter load costs fuel.
2. turbo diesel engines tend to be most efficient at about 1700 rpm.
So although a heavily loaded engine might be most efficient at 1700 rpm a heavily loaded engine at 1300 rpm might be more efficient than a lightly loaded engine at 1700 rpm.
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4x4ord
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07/24/23 03:58pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2023 Power Stroke vs 2023 Ram Cummins Towing Challenge
^^^You can call it programming or whatever but it comes down to power. I don't know what grade the hill was that he was pulling but to pull a 14,000 lb trailer up a steep hill at 110 kph takes a lot of power. He was comparing a 385 HP Ram to a 500 HP Ford.... and he says it didn't pull as well on account of the 6 speed transmission,:S.
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4x4ord
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07/24/23 11:16am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Anyone tried double towing in BC Canada?
^^^If that was the logic they could simply require a commercial (or special RV) licence for those wanting to double tow. Somewhere I read that hooking a second trailer on behind a 5th wheel in BC causes the combination to become unstable and therefore unsafe. In Alberta the combination might pull just fine but as soon as you cross that imaginary line into BC look out ... you're a menace on the road.
Edit: here is the link They say we need to use common sense but then they pass laws preventing common sense from being used.
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4x4ord
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07/24/23 07:56am |
Towing
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RE: Anyone tried double towing in BC Canada?
^^^I wonder if a person with a commercial drivers license and commercially licensed pick up towing an RV/motorcycle trailer would be more or less apt to be shown leniency?
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4x4ord
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07/23/23 09:57pm |
Towing
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RE: Anyone tried double towing in BC Canada?
^^^ A fellow I know around here was fined for no breakaway brakes plus he had a $300 tow bill to have the trailer pulled to a mechanics shop. Breakaway brakes are a good idea.
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4x4ord
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07/22/23 10:49am |
Towing
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RE: Anyone tried double towing in BC Canada?
Anyone know what the penalty is for forgetting to unhook the second trailer at the Alberta border?
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4x4ord
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07/22/23 08:12am |
Towing
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RE: Anyone tried double towing in BC Canada?
Really? Have you ever towed doubles? It's not that complicated. Some people might have a little trouble backing up but even that isn't difficult to learn. I think requiring a special license would be understandable.... there probably are some who shouldn't be towing anything, but most who are skilled at towing a single trailer certainly should have no trouble learning to tow doubles.
An awful lot of goods are safely shipped across BC in Super B's. What is the logic behind allowing 145,000 lb semi trucks on the road with two trailers yet forbidding people wanting to tow a 40ft 5th wheel with a boat on behind?
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4x4ord
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07/21/23 11:40pm |
Towing
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Anyone tried double towing in BC Canada?
I’m wondering how many times a guy could get away with double towing through BC before getting pulled over. Absolutely ridiculous law prohibiting double towing but maybe the Leo’s don’t bother enforcing stupid laws?
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4x4ord
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07/20/23 11:43pm |
Towing
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RE: 2023 Power Stroke vs 2023 Ram Cummins Towing Challenge
He's kind of full of poo. He claims the reason the Ram didn't want to pull the hill better was because the 6 speed transmission would have caused the Cummins to over rev if it had downshifted from 5th to 4th. The 68 RFE could have dropped to 4th gear no problem... That said, I like the transmission programming just the way it is. I would rather climb the hill at 105 km/hr, be slightly under the cruise control set point, and at 2000 rpm vs downshifting to 4th and accelerating to 2560 rpm to just to maintain 110 km/hr. If having an F150 pass me were to bother me I could always manually select 4th. He says the Cummins has all sorts of low end torque, but, in reality it was the lack of low end torque that prevented him from climbing the hill with the ease that the Powerstroke was able to accomplish the climb with. I think the Powerstroke climbed the hill at 110 km/hr and about 1900 rpm.
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4x4ord
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07/10/23 09:02am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Ford vs Chevy vs Ram HD DRW Drag Race
^^^It’s interesting that the 2024 Duramax appears to be an over achiever when you consider how it almost kept up to the much higher rated HO Powerstroke. If, however, you compare the 2024 Duramax towing 27000 lbs to the 2020 regular output Powestroke towing 30,000 lbs up the hill, the Duramax doesn’t look overly impressive.
Because the Duramax has a little higher rpm band than the Ford you’d expect both the 1050 lbft Powerstroke and the 975 lbft Duramax to be making about 400 HP at the point where they would downshift…. 2250 rpm for the Duramax and 2050 rpm for the Powerstroke. At 2600 rpm the Powerstroke is rated at 475 Hp and the Duramax 470 at 2800 rpm so we’d expect the two engines to pull very similar.
The rear wheel power required to pull a load up a hill is the sum of three values: the power required to overcome drag + power required to overcome rolling resistance + power required to lift the weight from the bottom of the hill to the top. Because both the 2020 Powerstroke and the 2024 Duramax were pulling different trailers up the hill we can’t say exactly but it would seem reasonable to say that it would take slightly more power to overcome rolling resistance on the 30,000 lb trailer vs the power to overcome rolling resistance on the 27000 lb trailer. If the power required to overcome rolling resistance at 44.7 mph on the 38500 lb combination is 60 hp it would require very close to 55 hp to overcome rolling resistance with a 35500 lb combination at 44.7 mph. It would also seem reasonable to expect the power required to overcome air resistance at 44.7 mph with the two trailers to be somewhat similar and not a huge number …. say 50 hp in both cases.
The 2023 Powerstoke would have averaged 45.7 mph which would have required very close to 56 hp to overcome rolling resistance and another 51 hp to overcome drag.
The power required for the 2020 Powerstroke to lift 38500 lbs from the bottom of the hill to the top (2300 feet) in 620 seconds can be easily calculated and is exactly 259.7 HP.
The power required for the 2024 Duramax to lift the 35500 lb combination the 2300 feet in 620 seconds is exactly 239.4 HP.
The power required for the 2023 Powerstroke to lift the 35500 lb combination 2300 feet in 607 seconds is precisely 244.6 hp.
So the 2020 Powerstroke made somewhere close to 370 rear wheel hp to pull its load up the Ike.
The 2024 Duramax made somewhere close to 344 rear wheel hp to pull its load up the Ike.
And the 2023 high output Powestroke would have made very close to 352 rear wheel hp.
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4x4ord
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07/10/23 06:44am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Ford vs Chevy vs Ram HD DRW Drag Race
The fact that under load the Duramax was faster 0-60 than the PS. I actually expected the DMax to be faster empty. It clearly was not. I guess one can assume that the PS is managed under load and less so running empty. The DMax must have less management all the way around, but left to the numbers, the PS's additional HP, left unmanaged, is more than the DMax can match.
From a GM perspective, if your coming in statistically that much lower than the PS, you better turn it loose to compete. If your looking for a reason to find this interesting, this video shows that driving either one of these pickups as a daily, it will perform empty very much like a high hp gas 1500/150, the PS even more so.
What exactly are you thinking torque management is? I doubt very much that the Ford's poor performance on the hill has anything to do with torque management. That said, I have no idea why it performed so poorly. I know that my '21 Powerstroke got better fuel economy than my '22 Powerstroke does... both trucks were spec'ed identical. My brother's '22 (spec'd identical to my '22) gets similar mileage to what my '21 got. Maybe there are slight differences that make one engine more efficient or more powerful than another?
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4x4ord
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07/09/23 01:07pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2024 Chevy 3500 verses 2023 F350
Wow 5000 RPM with a diesel , I'm sure that 6.7 Cummins would have pistons thru the block at that RPM . :B
5000 rpm for a Cummins might be pushing it ... I don't know? I wasn't overly concerned to see that level of rpm for 12 miles with my Duramax.
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4x4ord
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07/05/23 05:05pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2024 Chevy 3500 verses 2023 F350
Probably not towing the weight some are , my fifth wheel is only 15,500 GVWR , around 14,500 loaded these days . But the Cummins gets the job done nicely up ,and down the grades here in the mountain west .
An EB is nice to have for a 14000 lb trailer but not absolutely necessary for most highway grades. I remember descending a very long 8% grade with 14000 lbs in tow in the days before the factory EBs were available. My 03 Duramax at that time held the trailer back with zero brake applications at 5000 rpm in 1st gear. I used a 2011 Powerstroke on that same hill pulling the same 14000 lb trailer. The 2011 Powerstroke had a poor EB but it was good enough to comfortably descend the mountain in 2 nd gear at about 3500 rpm without any brake applications.
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4x4ord
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07/05/23 07:05am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2024 Chevy 3500 verses 2023 F350
^^^ If you simply set the cruise on a steep hill with a heavy trailer there will be times that your truck’s electronics will apply the wheel brakes as needed to make up any additional braking that the EB falls short of being able to produce. So, say you have a 21,000 lb trailer on behind and you are coming down a steep grade. You set the cruise at 55 mph hoping the EB to hold you at 60 mph. At 60 mph your truck might be in 4th gear at 3600 rpm and the computer periodically applies the wheel brakes. It’s not a terrible situation but if I’m in that situation I’d rather let my truck speed up to 65 mph if it needs to, let my engine rev to its redline and see if utilizing the full capacity of the EB could hold it back …..If not I’d slow down till the truck dropped to third gear then let it rev and try again.
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4x4ord
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07/05/23 12:17am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2024 Chevy 3500 verses 2023 F350
On this particular test they choose to utilize cruise control which I recall the GM's did really good in this mode in years past.
Knowing how the exhaust brake and how cruise works kinda matters. I know with any truck I've ever had, stepping on the brake pedal cancels cruise.... With my Ford if I set cruise and let it apply the brakes automatically I can count brake applications by watching when the trailer brakes are applied automatically as they did in this video. As soon as I brake manually (say to slow for a sharp curve or because I find the set speed to be a little fast) cruise is cancelled and has to be reset. If I set the exhaust brake to automatic and let it do its thing the computer will exercise enough back pressure to hold the truck back to the speed it was going when the brake pedal or accelerator pedal was last released. If maximum exhaust braking is not enough to maintain the desired speed the wheel brakes (truck and trailer) are used to slow the combination down a little anytime the engine reaches redline. If while set to "auto" I find 4th gear is too fast for the exhaust brake to maintain speed down the grade I simply step on the brake pedal until the truck drops to third gear. When I take my foot off the brake it will try yo maintain that new set point and if 3rd gear is still too fast I can step on the brake again and slow to second gear. "Auto" exhaust brake is perfect for grade braking (better than cruise). If the exhaust brake is set to "on" the exhaust brake constantly tries to slow the unit even once it slows below my desired speed. "On" should be used for slowing down rather than for trying to maintain a desired speed on a downhill grade.
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4x4ord
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07/03/23 11:00pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2024 Chevy 3500 verses 2023 F350
^^^ The High Output is supposed to be putting out about 150 more lbft of torque at bottom end of the power curve (so we should be able to expect at least 45 more horsepower at 2100 rpm and 25 more horsepower at 2600 rpm). Say 35 more ponies on average from 2100 to 2600 rpm. At 10,000feet of elevation maybe that 35 more HP would be more like 30 more hp. Considering the additional 30 hp and the fact that this trailer was 1500 lbs lighter than the trailer the 2020 pulled up the hill, the high output should have been able to shave nearly a minute off the 2020’s time. I had guessed it would have had a time of just under 9 and a half minutes. Maybe the warmer temperatures played a role or maybe the 2020 truck that TFLT used was an over achiever? Compared to the Duramax it looks like maybe this 2023 high output is an under achiever.
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4x4ord
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07/03/23 03:40am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2024 Chevy 3500 verses 2023 F350
I would have liked to see the high output Powerstroke tested against the regular output Powerstroke. I’ve got the HO ordered but after seeing that test result I’m having a hard time seeing much value in it over the regular output.
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4x4ord
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07/02/23 08:59am |
Tow Vehicles
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