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RE: Need help replacing charging circuit solenoid.
When non-essentials are cut off with Start, how does the solenoid power stay on when in MOM, but not otherwise?
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BFL13
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01/21/20 07:51am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need help replacing charging circuit solenoid.
Somehow I got the notion that when you turn the key to Start, that cuts off the blower motor etc including the power to the solenoid from the engine battery.
With MOM you get house battery power to the solenoid, not any engine battery power if I got that right.
So with MOM when you turn the key to Start it can cut off Engine battery power to the blower and solenoid, but that power is now from the House, so it all stays on is what I assumed.
You are saying that with MOM, the key in Start still cuts the house power to the blower, but leaves the power to the solenoid on so it stays closed.
So even when on engine battery, all normal, turning the key to Start cuts power to the blower as one event and separately somehow on a different line somehow also cuts the power to the solenoid.
MOM is able to distinguish between these two events and only cuts the power to the blower and not to the solenoid?
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BFL13
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01/21/20 07:08am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need help replacing charging circuit solenoid.
"Yes if your house batteries are low then you might want to turn off house energy users to maximize what the house batteries can do."
No, that too, but I meant the loads on the engine battery that are on in "ON", but get cut off when you go to "START" so they are not on at the same time the starter is on.
I think you would need to turn off your "climate control" or whatever fans you have in the cab yourself.
Also you would need decent wiring from the house side, not the long #10 like I have. Mine is fine for charging amps to the house with my low amp alternator (pre-1992 Ford), but not so good if I had one of those MOM deals to start the starter at high amps.
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BFL13
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01/20/20 07:46pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need help replacing charging circuit solenoid.
So with the rocker, you can push MOM and now the solenoid closes, then you turn the key to "Start" and instead of the solenoid opening as when powered from the engine battery, it stays closed from being powered by the house battery?
So you should turn off the heater fan etc yourself to reduce the total drain on the house when starting?
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BFL13
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01/20/20 07:18pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Ford Starting /House Charging Question UPDATE Test
On my 2019 Ford C the charge isolator relay is under the coolant overflow bottle. It has a delay built in so the engine has to be running for about 20 seconds before it ties the chassis battery and house bank together. The manual explains it needs to see charging voltage >13.6V on the engine side which starts the 20s timer. Any time voltage on the engine side drops below 13.6 it will untie the batteries and wait for 13.6 again to restart the timer. You can hear this click from the driver's seat after starting the engine. Emergency start switch bypasses this delay.
From a post in thread in another forum that I linked earlier:
"I run a dumb solenoid wired to come on with the ignition (not a fancy IBS system - which is just a dumb solenoid with a little brain to decide when to energize the solenoid). Done deal"
So the 2019's come with an IBS OEM?
EDIT--how is that 20 sec delay better than just waiting for the spring-loaded key to go back to "ON" from "START" ?
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BFL13
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01/20/20 06:50pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Electric Slides Motor
OK i dont know what im doing wrong. I dont see any preference settings and i am copying and pasting the link.
One photo at a time? We see that one photo ok. Seems to show a couple of DC circuit breakers.
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BFL13
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01/20/20 06:10pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need help replacing charging circuit solenoid.
No, the coil will draw very low amperage, maybe 1 amp.
I mean the solenoid that has the house battery wire on one side of it. I think the coil has to do with the starting one.
No idea if it could be related, but my test with the solenoid closed had the middle post with the ?name? wire showing about 0.5v lower than the voltage at the engine battery side post. This was with the engine off, key to "ON".
I don't know where that thin middle wire comes from, but wondered if it could affect the voltage at the dash where the OP's voltmeter is mounted, but the real battery voltage be ok.
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BFL13
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01/20/20 05:13pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Dometic thermostat and control box
In a recent thread it turned out the gas valve was only half working (one out of two coils ISTR) so propane sort of died away and no flame after a few minutes.
Can't remember if that was a furnace, fridge, or WH. The key was the flame lasted a while and did not shut off right away as if the flame sensor didn't work.
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BFL13
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01/20/20 05:04pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Electric Slides Motor
http://photoposting.is-great.net/?i=2
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BFL13
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01/20/20 04:55pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need help replacing charging circuit solenoid.
If the solenoid is stuck open but with voltage on the "ignition wire" (what is it called on this solenoid?) would that cause the dash mounted voltmeter to show a falling voltage? Does resistance build up somehow?
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BFL13
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01/20/20 03:58pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need help replacing charging circuit solenoid.
Mystery remains why the voltage fell off while driving and it wasn't the alternator. Whacking the charging solenoid seemed to make the voltage jump back to 14v, and all was good for the six hour drive home. But whacking that should not have made any difference.
More like you drove through a big puddle and the belt was slipping? Then it dried for the rest of the trip after you stopped?
What is the situation now? If not driven since, you could do some tests of the engine charging system.
a. disconnect the house side wire from the solenoid so there can be no confusion
b. start and run the engine.
c. observe voltage at the battery too, not just at the dash in case they are different (dropping at the dash but ok at the battery eg)
Is there something between the alternator output and the engine battery in the charging circuit that could have been going wrong but the alternator was ok?
Did whacking the solenoid fix that by vibration never mind what it did in the solenoid?
After whacking the solenoid, you now maybe got house voltage to the dash, but the engine batt still low. (they should have been ganged with voltage somewhere between the two voltages) Did it stay at 14 all the way as though house batts being charged at 14? Solar?
Or was that 14 from alternator ok to both sides?
If all seems well reconnect the house side of the solenoid but disconnect the little ignition wire so the solenoid is open (as it might have been in pre-whack stage for some mystery reason). Does engine voltage fall off like it did? If so, does reconnecting the ignition wire close the solenoid (without having to whack it) and does that make the voltage come back up? All to see if what happened before is repeatable.
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BFL13
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01/20/20 03:35pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Ford Starting /House Charging Question UPDATE Test
"Perhaps it would achieve the same thing if the solenoid's ignition wire got its power directly from the alternator"
My idea there would work for me, but wouldn't for those with the rocker switch jumper
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BFL13
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01/20/20 12:32pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Electric Slides Motor
The issue appears to be a 12 volt issue. I would guess that the trailer house battery is either dead or low on water, or both. Converter alone does not have enough output to power slides without reserve from battery.
Parallax 7355 converter on the 5er we had with its 14ft slide had no trouble running the slide in and out with no battery at all. Just have to join the two wires that go on the battery positive post (vise grip pliers eg) so there is a path from converter to slide motor.
Lippert specified a 30a fuse for the slide, and Trimetric showed it pulled about 25 amps at most for the hard part bringing it back up over the hump at the edge of the main floor. Was about 15 amps on the straight and level part.
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BFL13
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01/20/20 11:41am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Amorphous solar panels
They are larger in area for the watts (not so efficient in other words)
You see a lot of them in the small portable sets sold for crazy high prices in hardware stores. Go to a real solar panel store for proper prices for the wattage you get for any type of panel.
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BFL13
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01/20/20 10:44am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Ford Starting /House Charging Question UPDATE Test
New test for just when "on" engine off (not started yet)
MH on shore power, house at 13.8v, no charger on engine batt.
Voltmeter on three solenoid posts: engine side, ignition wire in middle, house side for positive and engine battery neg post for neg.
"OFF" - 12.77, 0.00, 13.76
"ON" -- 12.82 rising slowly, 12.39 rising slowly, 13.04 (blower fan running, dash warning lights on)
So that answers that one. My MH does not have that rocker switch for connecting house to engine so can't answer any of those questions.
Thanks to all for the help with this for how my MH works for that.
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BFL13
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01/20/20 10:32am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Ford Starting /House Charging Question UPDATE Test
I will re-check whether my charging solenoid closes when the key is turned to "on" and not yet turned to "start"
Yesterday I had the voltmeter on the small wire that goes in the middle (sometimes seen called "ignition wire") and it only showed battery voltage coming onto it after the engine started, but I will re-test. I had the pos probe on the ignition wire terminal in the middle of the solenoid and the neg probe on the battery neg post.
This time I will also compare battery and house voltages to see if there is any action once the key is turned to "on" and left there.
When the starter is started the blower etc quit to reduce the draw on the engine battery and then the key goes back to "on". So it seems that power cut to the other things includes cutting power to the "ignition wire" on the solenoid to open it, and then it closes when the key goes back to "on" and power is restored to the other things too.
So even if the solenoid is closed when you go to "on" that still leaves only the engine battery to start the starter and then after that the house batts are put in parallel with the engine battery.
I saw no voltage drop on the house batteries when the engine is starting, only the rise after the engine got going. If the solenoid does close when just in "on" and engine not running, then I would not see that at the house batts, because there would be no load from the starter.
Perhaps it would achieve the same thing if the solenoid's ignition wire got its power directly from the alternator.
I remember that you are not supposed to leave the key in "on" with the engine off because it will burn out the points. AFAIK there are no points anymore but vague on that. So I hope today's test does not burn my points if I have any. I will report results of the re-test later today.
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BFL13
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01/20/20 08:03am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Ford Starting /House Charging Question UPDATE Test
BFL13,
What chassis is it? Ford? GM? or other? What motor?
The rig in my sig, photo in Profile. In case you can't see that from where you are, it is a 1991 Ford E350 gasser. Called an "incomplete". They sell those to companies that make ambulances or RVs
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BFL13
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01/19/20 07:07pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Ford Starting /House Charging Question UPDATE Test
I suspected that the "combiner/isolator" (same thing) would energize before the starter got started, but in my case it does not, as described earlier.
If it did energize before the starter starts, then that must mean the house batteries always help the engine battery start the starter. LY gave some thoughts on that.
I have only long #10 wire to the house batts positive side (frame neg), so to take real advantage if the isolator energized first, I would need fatter wire on that path. So I like mine the way it is.
I don't know what the other MHs do for wire gauge on the house battery side of the isolator where they also have that dash rocker switch as described in the other thread.
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BFL13
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01/19/20 06:36pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Ford Starting /House Charging Question UPDATE Test
I am confused by all terms. How can the key be in run and the engine not started? Isn't "run" next after "ignition"? (1. release steering wheel, 2. ACC, 3. ignition, 4. run)
This one has "run" before "start"
https://dannysengineportal.com/ignition-switch/
I saw somewhere that run was after when the various warning lights on the dash turn off just after it starts. I think that is when my isolator is energized.
EDIT some more: In desperation I looked at the driver's manual :) and it explains there are five positions with my MH. Acc, Lock, Off, On, and Start.
"On" is when you can see if the dash warning lights work(except the brake) "Start" cranks the engine, then the key returns to "On" and stays there while the engine runs
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BFL13
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01/19/20 01:55pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Ford Starting /House Charging Question UPDATE Test
Confirmed in my rig that the isolator is not energized until after the engine starts running. Voltage on the ignition wire in the middle of the solenoid does not rise until after the engine starts.
Before that, as the key goes through its steps there are two loud clicks from below somewhere on the passenger side and then it starts. That must be the other solenoid I can't see.
Voltmeter on the house batts also shows no change until the engine is running--definite time delay there before voltage starts to rise.
Thanks everyone for explaining how all this works.
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BFL13
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01/19/20 11:21am |
Tech Issues
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