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RE: 50 Amp Receptacle to Inverter

Instead of fighting with the 50a shore power cord, you might be able to do a version of this. I think PT has a version of this method too. Mr Wiz has a wireless switch that does something like this too- he can describe how that works. We only ever need 15a instead of 30 amp. (No air conditioner) We get the 15a from inverter or shore power or portable gen by plugging into one or the other. The shore power cord is now a 25 ft 12/3 extension cord with a triple outlet that is under the sink. The cord can be pulled out to plug it in somewhere same as a real shore power cord. The real 30a shore power cord is under there too and has a 15/30 adapter under the sink. A short 3 ft 12/3 with triple outlet goes into one of the triple outlets under the sink. (For ease to get at instead of the long cord's triple farther back.) The converter is a plug-in to one of the three in the long cord. The real 30a cord has a surge guard and then a 15/30 (all under the sink area) that can be plugged into: A. An extension cord from the inverter, or B. One of the triple outlets in the short cord (for pedestal or gen). So the no-work chore is to plug the real shore cord under the sink into one of those two places. The converter only gets power when the long cord is plugged into a pedestal or the portable gen. The inverter has a remote on/off. Off-grid mostly. To recharge from the gen usually just plug the shore cord into the gen. Can leave the inverter on or not. Usually try not to have any 12v loads when recharging so not to waste gen time. Eg, getting 75 amps and then furnace comes on so charging amps drop to 67. So turn off furnace till batts done. Too easy! :)
BFL13 04/06/20 02:33pm Tech Issues
RE: Norcold N611 Cooling issue

https://norcold.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/636355B_SM_N611vN811.pdf
BFL13 04/06/20 08:56am Tech Issues
RE: 50 Amp Receptacle to Inverter

To exploit 3000w vs 2000w, you would pull 300 amps discharge from the battery bank vs 200 amps. How long you would do that depends on the size of the bank. Using Lithium batts for this is the same. An amp is an amp and an AH is still an AH. ISTR they have limited discharge rates even if higher. 100 amps per 100AH ? So you will still need say three or four 100 AH batts AFAIK. Big bucks! So IMO you could do just as well with a simple 2000w inverter, hard wired or not, and save a bundle getting AGMs instead of Li.
BFL13 04/04/20 01:38pm Tech Issues
RE: Understanding length of time for absorption & finish charge

ISTR old batteries will have more heat loss when charging and when you get down to the end for tapering amps, the lowest the amps get to will be higher, where more of those amps are going to heat instead of charging. So your "end current" or whatever you call it, will be higher than with new batteries. LY has seen with AGMs (me too) that after they get down to "end current" at 0.5a/100AH and you leave them at 14.x volts they will keep warming up and that takes more amps, so amps start going back up. Time to lower the voltage! I am guessing these 8v batts are for a golf car. You can use four T-1275 12v or six 8v to get your 48v. What is the make/model of your charger if it is not one of those kind that comes with a golf car? It has settings of interest not found in many chargers.
BFL13 04/04/20 12:15pm Tech Issues
RE: 50 Amp Receptacle to Inverter

AFAIK the usual 3000w inverter will have 15a AC worth in two receptacles, which you can do with a 2000w inverter. To get more from the 3000w , you need to plug something separately into another of its (three is common, can have four) receptacles. I am unclear on the concept, so asking what happens with the 3000w that has hard wire output to your RV's 120v panel? How do you get all 3000w? Is the hard wire 30a to connect to your 30a or 50a RV? Meanwhile on what is a good 3000w inverter for a decent price, this one is (at least the 2000w is), but is not for hard wiring. I have the 2000w version and so does at least one other member here, and we are happy after two years so far doing whole house. No need for a 3000w. https://powermaxconverters.com/product-category/inverters-dc-ac/
BFL13 04/04/20 11:28am Tech Issues
RE: Battle Born Charging

" Not having wet/ agm batteries I don't know if this is exactly the way it would be for them under the same condition on a daily basis? Or would you have to charge without the loads till they went through the charge stages then turn on loads?" IMO, essentially you are not doing anything different from lots of folks who do shallow cycles (70-99) mostly living off their solar. Eg, we did the same sort of thing when doing our five month seasonal off grid times from mid-April to end September up here. Very little gen time, no shortage of MW, kettle, TV time with 400-500AH of battery bank and enough solar. The difference here is in the massive amount of solar, allowing for extensive use of 12v loads compared with most folks' usage. IMO the battery type has nothing to do with it. Any battery bank with 400-500AH would have worked the same. it is all about the solar wattage and being where it can be used. However, AGMs or Wets would now be needing replacement at four years of that, whereas the Lis are still doing the job. They don't care about being undercharged when it gets dark too soon. They can do more cycles. So it might work out that in another four years the Lis will need replacement, when the second set of AGMs would also be replaced. Up to the individual RVer what that means for budgeting and convenience. You can still get charging into the batteries while running loads. Have to watch that there is enough daytime to get the batts done up with the amps left over with the loads getting fed first. Having a battery monitor such as a Trimetric can help you see if things are working out during the day so you can choose your load times. Eg, with a laptop you can run it on its own battery at night, and recharge it from solar during the day, which means the RV batts don't get run down as far at night.
BFL13 04/04/20 09:56am Tech Issues
RE: Understanding length of time for absorption & finish charge

Trojan's IVI approach needs a special charger, not easy. Yes their 4 hour time does not fit their other statement that times will vary. IMO ignore all that and use this approach even with Trojans, only use Trojan's voltages with theirs. This is an IV method which is a lot easier to do with the available chargers. Note the times to end each phase. And yes, believe the hydrometer. https://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Renewable-Energy-Charging-Parameters-1913.pdf
BFL13 04/04/20 09:11am Tech Issues
RE: Furnace Short-Cycling

EDIT--Have you new propane since owning the rig? If not could bad fuel be the cause? ----------- This diagram seems to show a number of vents to choose, but is incomplete on info. Must be a better link for the particular furnace model? https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/atwood-hydroflame-furnace-model-afsd20141-tune-up-kit This is about a different furnace, but might be relevant. Was mention of the gas valve being out of place, and also since air seems to be involved: "I'm told the inverted louvers are intentionally designed that way to prevent the furnace from sucking in hot 'exhaust' (i.e. CO) air from the chrome 'chimney' below into the furnace's fresh air. This could extinguish the furnace flame." (Mostly nothing to do with OP's otherwise) https://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f113/new-atwood-furnaces-afmd-series-79088.html
BFL13 04/02/20 01:53pm Tech Issues
RE: Furnace Short-Cycling

To see the flame you would need to have the furnace out and rig up a propane supply and 12v. More not a clue thoughts: If there are small bits and pieces (OP mentioned seeing some) coming into the propane supply for the furnace then it could be clear at times and plogged at times. You could clear out the orifice and put it back in and more stuff get into it next time. ISTR something about that yellow tape getting into things if not done right. Not sure if the first gas pipe into the valve has stuff in it, that the stuff would get through to the outlet pipe that has the orifice in it. Rich or lean? What about "back pressure" like a car exhaust with the restriction removed in the furnace exhaust pipe making it work ok?
BFL13 04/02/20 09:59am Tech Issues
RE: Charge Controller/Converter issue?

Here we go with "bonded", Earthed", "grounded", "floating neutral". Get some popcorn! Don't know about the box fan at half speed.
BFL13 04/02/20 09:45am Tech Issues
RE: Untangling an electrical mess! Need some guidance/paid help

Your photo shows a note that says you have a Magnetek 6336 converter. That would be reasonable for a 1987 rig. This manual and other stuff should help you some keep scrolling down: http://www.hayseed.net/~jpk5lad/RV%20Information/MagnaTek%20Pwr%20Converter/RV%20Binder1.pdf
BFL13 04/01/20 02:22pm Tech Issues
RE: Furnace Short-Cycling

Doug, Regarding "DID YOU REMOVE THE ORIFICE AND CHECK FOR BLOCKAGE OR DEBRIS?" I pulled the burner assembly out from the heat exchange tube, the tube was clear and the burner appeared clean (see photo), I did not detach burner from the part it was attached to. https://i.imgur.com/gSeqmRWl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/UKsitHhl.jpg]https://i.imgur.com/UKsitHhl.jpg Just to follow up on this sidebar aspect, here is a photo of the relevant parts of my old 8531 spare. You can see the orifice brass piece that screws into the gas pipe. You unscrew that to clean it. Also you can see the old time sparker with three prongs, one being the flame sensor, while in the OP's photo you can see his two prong type in the background. Two rusted out burner things are also shown, one from my OEM and one from the spare I got. One difference with those is the cover plate before the screen starts on the new ones you get, as seen in the OP's photo. The replacement I got has that cover plate, but it works ok in my old furnace, so whatever it is for, it doesn't matter with an older 8531.
BFL13 03/31/20 10:51am Tech Issues
RE: Installing inverter w/charger and transfer switch

My previous inverter, (a Vector brand) user's manual says its 2000w model (designed to also run motors-ie heavy duty) should have 1/0 wire to 6 ft and a 500w ANL fuse, but they spec for the inverter's surge (4000w) not just for rated. What does your user's manual say?
BFL13 03/31/20 06:30am Tech Issues
RE: Furnace Short-Cycling

That tongue looking thing un-screws along with the sparker unit and the orifice can then be seen. You can check that for if its hole is plugged up. Also confirm the sparker gap is correct--could matter even more for the new gap flame sensor method. The screen on that tongue eventually rusts out in places. The furnace burning gets wonky from the flame being exposed where there is no screen anymore. You can get a new one from Amazon. Be sure to get the right part when the time comes. There are different tongues by models of furnace. Just got one for my old 8531.
BFL13 03/30/20 09:34pm Tech Issues
RE: Furnace Short-Cycling

Also, to answer your question, system NEVER shuts down, just short-cycles. Regarding that restrictor inside the exhaust vent tube, which decreases the inside dimension of the tube to about 1/2" diameter, do you know it's purpose? When it's removed, no more short-cycling. Can I just remove that restrictor permanently? Check the space between the two tubes to see if it that space is restricted by something that should not be there. Closing the outer door may shut that part off, and opening the door may let enough air through? The exhaust vent tube in my 1990 8531 does not have a "restrictor" for the inside tube or in the space between it and the outer tube. It is two tubes one inside the other with a space between the inner and outer for air to pass through. (Incoming air I guess ????) When the furnace is on, the hot air coming out of the inner tube exhaust is very hot. I always think that is such a waste of heat, but no way to capture it. The only restriction inside the inner exhaust tube is a small metal part where a sort of bracket holds the two tubes together. Here is a photo of the inner end of the tube assembly from my spare 8531 https://i.imgur.com/hxjvJpAl.jpg]https://i.imgur.com/hxjvJpAl.jpg
BFL13 03/30/20 12:04pm Tech Issues
RE: Furnace Short-Cycling

I have an older furnace so I don't know what a vent tube is. On my 8531 you don't have to take out the furnace to get at the burner assembly. It is a PITA where the screws are way back in there. You need a magnetic screwdriver to get the screws back in! With such a new furnace, unlikely to be faulty parts. Wasp nests possible though.
BFL13 03/29/20 01:04pm Tech Issues
RE: Battery: AGM vs. Flooded Cell

" The reason they were going to be used was their higher charge rate. It wasn't 5 times but it was closer to 2 times faster. " I am hung up on what exactly it means to say "2 times faster" If that means you can do a 50-90 in one hour instead of two hours, restoring the same number of AH, then how can you do that? Using a higher charge rate is given as the way to do it. Up to a point you do get a faster re-charge by using more amps per AH size of battery bank. You do not halve the time by doubling the amps, as seen in my ugly graph. It is a diminishing returns thing. But you can do it faster up to a point as seen. (ugly graph shown below) Also, except for Lifelines, many AGMs specify a high limit on charging rate such as my Starks which say 27 amps per 100AH. So that is no higher than what a Wet can take. So using a higher charging rate than what a Wet can take only applies to Lifeline AGMs. And I have not seen where they are excempt from the way that higher charging rates means Bulk ends at a lower SOC. So if you did use a way high charging rate, most of the recharge would be in Absorption tapering amps AFAIK. So you are not going to get twice as long in Bulk at the max amps of the charger to achieve your 2 times faster. I would like to see, using a charging profile for each case, how the 2 times faster would happen, to compare with the graphs in my ugly graph set. BTW that set is about what I see charging my AGMs and Wets, roughly the same. https://i.imgur.com/bqLvZU1l.jpg]https://i.imgur.com/bqLvZU1l.jpg
BFL13 03/29/20 12:21pm Tech Issues
RE: Installing inverter w/charger and transfer switch

It is not conflicting, but is a choice to have redundancy. Also the converter will supply 12v with no battery installed, but the inverter/ charger will not. It needs the 12v battery connected to power it up so its charger will work from 120v. If you have your batteries out or disconnected for some reason, you can still run the 12v stuff from the converter.
BFL13 03/29/20 08:23am Tech Issues
RE: Installing inverter w/charger and transfer switch

Thats correct, but I'm talking about the 12v side. If your looking at my diagram where I wrote positive, that wire runs from battery Positive to Jack/disconnect/brake before running to the 12v board. Im not sure what your referring too.. In that case you need to insert a switch on the converter's pos wire before it gets to the breaker, or else re-arrange the breakers. Breakers for air conditioning/water heater and convert will be off when on battery power. In the future I could always add a sub panel with a switch. The transfer switches are for 120v so you can't get 240v and fry your appliances. I have a manual switch (me) that plugs the shore power cable into the inverter. I pull that out and plug it into the portable gen or to a pedestal as required. Automatic transfer switches are mostly for when you have a built in generator, but also can be used as others here are recommending. Check your AC breaker panel. If the breaker marked CONV has just one black wire going into the bottom, then it can be used the switch for the converter. If it has two black wires going into the bottom, you need to find what circuit that second black wire is on. It might be for outlets you want to stay live when on inverter. BTW don't trust the OEM markings on the breaker panel. Check each one by turning it off to see if it is really for what it says. Same with the 12v fuses. ( "Hard to get good help these days")
BFL13 03/29/20 07:50am Tech Issues
RE: Battery: AGM vs. Flooded Cell

Deka flooded Vabs is 14.4-14.7v also higher than their AGM Vabs https://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Renewable-Energy-Charging-Parameters-1913.pdf However, that 14.4-14.7 is lower than for these Stark AGMs at 14.6-14.8 ( my 100AH Starks say 14.5-14.9 same as those UB121000s) http://www.wegosolar.com/products.php?product=SKR%252d125AGM-Stark-AGM-12V-Solar-Battery-Sealed-125A Which only proves again that there is no rule that all AGMs use lower voltages than flooded. BUT it does show again that you really need to look up the charging specs for whatever battery you have. If your charger has AGM, GEL, and WET settings where the AGM voltage is lower than the WET voltage, and your AGM spec is actually higher like the above examples, then you would know to use the WET setting with your AGMs. (If that WET setting matches) Best thing is to have an adjustable voltage charger so you can meet any spec any battery you buy might have.
BFL13 03/28/20 10:51pm Tech Issues
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