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RE: Goodyear Marathon tires class action?

Over the years the Goodyear Marathon RV trailer tires, both USA & China manufactured have taken a beating in the user market. Our 5th wheel trailer was one that suffered numerous failures before increasing tire load capacity solved our problems. Our (new) 2003 Keystone Everest 363K had 6000# vehicle certified GAWR axles. The factory installed original equipment (OE) tires were USA made ST235/80R16 LRD GY Marathons. Their maximum load capacity was 3000# at, 65 PSI which is what the placard recommended. Within 9 months we had used all five that came on the trailer because of various failure problems, all had lost their treads and a few blew out when the treads departed. A few trips to some scales showed that we had a single tire position overloaded but the axle was not overloaded. We were constantly traveling very close to maximum axle weights. The tires were provided nearly zero load capacity reserves and in some configurations, tires that were always overloaded. Top that off by traveling right at the 65 MPH maximum tire speed range you can see that the incident of early catastrophic failures was very predictable. By the middle of the second year of traveling we ditched all LRD tires and replaced them with LRE. Our failure rate almost completely disappeared. So, in my opinion, laying 100% of the blame on the GY tires was a misjudgment. It was common practice by nearly all RV trailer manufacturers to provide OE tires with minimum legal load capacities. I just happened to have a Keystone product. The rule has not changed, just the manufacturers application of it. Here is official minimum allowed tire load capacity per axle. (The sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label).
CALandLIN 01/13/20 10:56am General RVing Issues
RE: Trailer Tire Speeding Rating??

Thanks for everyone's response. Very much appreciated. I can now say I learned something new today. I also feel better knowing I can do what I wanted to accomplish without having to upgrade the rims on my TT at the same time. Time to go tire shopping. Happy camping all. Thanks again. Sometimes you get a little information that does not fit the situation. The tire industry standards (USTMA) are quite stern about replacement tire load capacity and say to NEVER use replacement tires with load capacities below what the vehicle manufacturer provided with the original tires. They also do not recommend basic design changes unless approved by the vehicle manufacturer.
CALandLIN 01/11/20 04:44am Tech Issues
RE: Fifth Wheel tire question

local Tire guy is saying no problem,...... It was still aired up, and beads were still sealed. The USTMA says any tire found to have an inflation 20% below the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation, must be considered to have been run in a "run flat" condition and should be dismounted for an internal inspection.
CALandLIN 01/02/20 07:10pm Fifth-Wheels
RE: Tires, again!

Sailun has a tie pressure chart for each tire showing capacity at different psi. In the reference below you’ll find the Sailun published trailer tire load/inflation chart. Not all ST tire sizes are listed. However, it does list the new 13” radial LRD. Click Here!
CALandLIN 09/12/19 03:21pm Fifth-Wheels
RE: Tires, again!

Steel Cased RV trailer tires In the 16” diameter there are the popular Sailun with two sizes. Carlisle has the same two sizes and so does Heartland and Greenball. Greenball has introduced a ST225/75R15 LRF steel cased tire rated at 3195# @ 95 PSI. If you want an American made steel cased trailer tire there is the GY G614 RST. I’m pretty sure Sailun has a similar knock-off of that same tire, maybe in their truck tire line-up.
CALandLIN 09/11/19 06:20pm Fifth-Wheels
RE: Can you recommend me a high temperature tape?

I have found that the products in the reference to be very reliable. Click Here!
CALandLIN 09/09/19 11:35am Tech Issues
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

I have 6000# GAWR vehicle certified axles. I use ST235/80R16 LRE tires inflated to 80 PSI which provides 520# in load capacity reserves per tire. I replace them every three years. Ouch...thats gotta' hurt. This is the biggest reason I don't use ST tires on my RV trailers. Hell I couldn't afford them. I've used LT235/85-16 E tires on several trailers with 6k axles and replace them when they reach 50k-55k miles or 7-8 years which ever comes first. Anywayz the legalistic sounding opinions were hearing from Cal can be read over and over ad nauseam by searching FastEagle on this website (and other rv websites). Don't feed the troll. I came back to this post because you know very well that my message isn't personal, yet, as in the past, you chose to make it so and I bit. Sorry to others that I now have to bow out of this discussion as others start clouding my message. I've been doing this for more than 15 years and should have recognized the bait.
CALandLIN 09/07/19 02:20pm Travel Trailers
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

Hate to tell you this Calvin, but your established way ain’t workin. If it was there wouldn’t be all these threads complaining about ST tire problems. Keith Well that's quite true. The published way establishes minimum standards which can always be improved with a little help from vehicle manufacturers and their options or recommendations for added protection with replacement tires. RIVA has helped with their 10% in load capacity reserve recommendation for OEM tires. Complaints are, in a large part, from disgruntled consumers and highly anecdotal in nature. The motto, "the right tool for the job" can be shifted to the "right tire for the application". Problem is, most -new- RV trailer owners have a problem when they have to make that decision. Writing about tires in this format is often difficult because we cannot directly confront those making serious errors. We have to obfuscate.
CALandLIN 09/07/19 12:14pm Travel Trailers
RE: Goodyear Endurance long term review.

GY does not advertise their Endurance trailer tires as mileage tires. Like all other ST tires they are wear-out tires. To get in excess of 25K from any ST tire requires some excellent management practices. To replace the OPs GY tires with another design such as a low platform truck tire, would, in all probability require 17'5" diameter tires. And, they would be smaller in profile than the current tires. For high mileage users the switch might be beneficial because the more robust truck tires would probably double in expected mileage before wear-out. However, the size and inflation pressures will provide a more harsh ride for the trailer's internal cargo. I'd talk to a tire knowledgeable employee of the vehicle manufacturer about the pros/cons of such a swap in size and design.
CALandLIN 09/06/19 11:08am General RVing Issues
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

Ouch indeed. If I replaced tires that often, I'd be buying 16 tires every three years for my trailers alone. No thanks. This is why I try not to get into personal discussions. My messages are from how it's supposed to be done. Not how well something different from the established way works for others.
CALandLIN 09/05/19 04:45pm Travel Trailers
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

Ouch indeed. If I replaced tires that often, I'd be buying 16 tires every three years for my trailers alone. No thanks. Ok, I've added all to this one I can think of. I'm happy with my choices and satisfied with my interpretation of the dexter and trailer owners manuals. My long time friend/owner of the local Good Year store, which is also a independent tire dealer ( multi brand ) is more than happy to sell and mount LT tires to me on all my trailers. I'm good to go here. Didn't you already say your trailer documentation from the manufacturer authorizes LT tire use?
CALandLIN 09/05/19 09:10am Travel Trailers
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

I have 6000# GAWR vehicle certified axles. I use ST235/80R16 LRE tires inflated to 80 PSI which provides 520# in load capacity reserves per tire. I replace them every three years. Ouch...thats gotta' hurt. This is the biggest reason I don't use ST tires on my RV trailers. Hell I couldn't afford them. I've used LT235/85-16 E tires on several trailers with 6k axles and replace them when they reach 50k-55k miles or 7-8 years which ever comes first. Anywayz the legalistic sounding opinions were hearing from Cal can be read over and over ad nauseam by searching FastEagle on this website (and other rv websites). Don't feed the troll. As you well know my original trailer tires were ST235/80R16 LRD and made in the USA . The number of failures in the first couple of years forced me into trailer tire researching. Numerous trips to the scales and an increase in load range from D to E solved most of our failure problems. Because of our trailer's 32" axle spacing, center to center, taller tires than what we already use wont work. Sometimes we changed sooner than 3 years because of mileage. The newer higher speed rated tires with better compounding should go 5 years depending on mileage. We now have the option to go up to LRF but the LRE have been successful. But we would have to change wheels because ours are pressure rated at 80 PSI. To be fair about tires I'll point out that we do not skimp. In the first 200K on our dually it had 5 sets of tires. No matter what they look like, when they start breaking out with a little extra torque I change them.
CALandLIN 09/05/19 09:01am Travel Trailers
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

Cal, I have two questions. First, out of curiosity, given all your research into this subject, what tires are you using on your trailers ? I'm always curious to hear other's experiences when they are based on a lot of research and experience. I have 6000# GAWR vehicle certified axles. I use ST235/80R16 LRE tires inflated to 80 PSI which provides 520# in load capacity reserves per tire. I replace them every three years. Second question, and a posted photo here. This is a page of the dexter manual, and also a page out of one of my trailer manuals. I merged the two into one picture here. Dexter is an OEM provider. My question is this: do you think it's fair to say the folks at Dexter, and also the folks at the trailer company ( Titan, in this case ) have also read all the related documentation that you have provided ? They really don't need to, they don't have anything to do with vehicle certification. And if they have, is it fair to conclude that after they read it, they agreed ( likely in a committee ) it "would be ok to mention the use of LT or ST tires" in the printed manuals ? Dexter is not a tire provider. They have nothing to do with tire selections. In other words, what I am saying here is that I, as a consumer, am NOT making an arbitrary decision out of my own limited "garage-mahal thinking". I am, in fact, as a consumer, reading a manual, written by the folks that built the axles, and another manual written by the folks that built the trailer. And THAT point goes back to my much earlier post to this thread, "it's in the manual". The vehicle manufacturer has the sole responsibility for tire selection for all vehicles they build. All highway tires may be fitted to RV trailer axles once they have been approved by the trailer manufacturer. Others may be authorized as options. No others qualify. https://i.imgur.com/cwnMRjZl.jpg See the dialog in blue above.
CALandLIN 09/04/19 10:14pm Travel Trailers
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

However, they are minimal standards and when you are operating outside those standards you can be held accountable for your actions. In what way? When you make a statement like that, you should clarify it. Otherwise people will draw a conclusion based on what they think you may be insinuating. In this case, I think you are reffering to legal problems that may arise in the event of an accident. Or you could be refferring to warranty issues, or perhaps both. I agree that is a possibility for those (and there is always someone) that puts tires on that are less capable than the "certified" replacements. Those people can and should be held accountable. But those that go above and beyond the "certified" choice should be fine...There is plenty of evidence out there that shows just how unreliable the "certified" choices have proven to be. Of course any one can be sued for any reason.... Even those participating in this discussion can be sued, just for talking about it. Winning such a lawsuit is an entirely different matter. There is a link provided by NHTSA where anyone can request an interpretation. I did that and asked them to give me one for "industry Standards". Much like their regulations their answer was short and to the point....."Industry standards generally form the basis for demonstrating product safety and quality before courts, regulators, consumers and others".
CALandLIN 09/04/19 09:57pm Travel Trailers
RE: Looking for advice

We lived in FL off and on for 23 years. When we started our retirement venture into full time RVing we found a whole new Florida. We were constantly on the move for a little more than 5 years and wintered in FL two months at a time three times. Florida is saturated with RV Parks & CGs. Many of the well established larger ones cater to seasonal & full time residents. And snow birds, with rigs they take home with them in the summer time. Some parks have an abundance of residential units that are park models. They are often for sale and worth looking at, as many are well maintained and appointed. If you plan on traveling in your RV someday you’ll want one that will require a tow vehicle one ton or less. If you’ll have visitors regularly many of the new travel trailers and 5th wheels have comfortable bunk rooms and a 2nd bath. Florida has an abundance of 55+ senior designated RV Parks and CGs. Their amenities are tailored to that age group. Young visitors are normally restricted to 30 days or less visits.
CALandLIN 09/04/19 09:18pm Full-time RVing
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

I’m not writing tire posts to be argumentative. I research what I say and have references to support the information in my posts. How a person perceives my messages can be clouded by the way regulations, rules and standards are written or disseminated. A big confusion factor about replacing RV trailer tires is the lack of standardized recommendations from the trailer manufacturers. You drive your car, truck or other motorized vehicle into a tire retailer’s location to inquire about replacements. They will search their data base for acceptable replacements for your vehicle. They already have all the vehicle manufacturer’s recommendations and can immediately give you a list of tires by size and brand to choose from. That procedure is nonexistent for RV trailer tires. The best you can hope for is a list of the same designated size shown on your trailer’s certification label with a variation in load ranges when available. A call to the RV dealer/manufacturer will in all probability result in the same selections. Here’s some official stuff. Vehicle owner’s manual wording: To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same designated size as the vehicle's original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer. Look at the tire information placard, the owner's manual, or the sidewall of the tire you are replacing to find this information. Tire industry wording: Never choose a tire that is smaller in size or has less load-carrying capacity than the tire that came with the vehicle. Tires should always be replaced with the same size designation — or approved options — as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. The correct tire size designated for your vehicle should always be verified with the information in your vehicle owner’s manual and/or the vehicle certification label. In the USTMA industry standards from the RV chapter page # 43 has this caveat; “However, never use inflation pressure lower than specified by the vehicle tire placard, certification label or owner’s manual. Nor should inflation pressure exceed the maximum pressure molded on the tire sidewall.” There is an industry standard used to set recommended cold tire inflation pressures for replacement tires having a different size designation than the OE tires. It stipulates that they must provide a load capacity equal to the OE tires by inflation pressures. Like Jim pointed out above, these are none binding standards for the consumer unless there is a state regulation that enforces them. However, they are minimal standards and when you are operating outside those standards you can be held accountable for your actions.
CALandLIN 09/04/19 11:54am Travel Trailers
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

Cal, Thanks for taking the time to write out something that seems like a rather complex way of looking at the subj. I'm not sure what to think of all the details. What I do know is that I have two trailer manuals, from two different companies here, that say when selecting replacement tires, I can use LT if I so choose. That's a vehicle manufacturer option and their choice to do so. However, do they tell you how to go about insuring the switch to the LT tires can be accomplished and stay within the acceptable tire industry safety parameters? That's good enough for me. I'm not equipped to argue the semantics of of "approval" vs "a long list of federal certifications". I like LT tires on my trailers. I have used them with much luck. I've used ST tires also. Not so much good luck with them. warm regards, gw ps, I do make sure I am choosing replacement tires that have load rating that is in excess of the actual load being carried, and also is in excess of the axle rating. I never run with overloaded tires or axles. My travel trailer has 7600 pounds of LT tire capacity, with 3600 actual pounds on the axles. My small horse trailer has 8400 pounds of LT tire capacity under an actual load of no more than 5500 axle pounds. Etc., on my other trailers. This has worked well for me with LT tires. It did not work well for me with ST. For the first year of my two newest trailers ( 2016 ) I tried getting by with running the factory OE ST tires. One failed on the horse trailer ( Provider brand ) and one failed on the equipment trailer ( BCT brand ). I don't know why they failed. They were inflated correctly on the morning of failure in both cases. I didn't agonize over either. Both trailers now have LT, and have run without failure since then. The reason ST tires are so hard to replace with LT tires is load capacity. Here are a couple of examples. The ST225/75R15 LRE has a maximum load capacity of 2830# to match that load capacity with a LT tire will almost always require new 16" wheels and tires. A lot of RV trailers do not have the axle spacing for the taller tires. The ST235/85R16 LRE has a maximum load capacity of 3640#, the LT235/85R16 LRG has a maximum load capacity of 3750# and is one of the few fitments that will work by going up with the available two load range increases and using wheels that will support the 110 PSI necessary to gain equal load capacity from the LRG tires. p.s. providing tires for the actual load carried is not from the FMVSS standards and is not applicable for RV trailer tire fitments.
CALandLIN 09/04/19 08:28am Travel Trailers
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

....snip Any highway tire can be chosen by the RV trailer manufacturer as long as it falls within the FMVSS (standards). ....snip Cal, My point is that LT tires are "approved" by the trailer manufacturers. You point out that any tire within the safety standards can be chosen as OE. Which is true. They mostly choose ST, because very possibly, they are simply the least expensive to fit, and may in fact meet the needs of many consumers. However on this board and others, forum members will state that "LT tires should not be fit to trailers. They are made for trucks. ST tires should be fit, because they are made for trailers." This statement is contrary to what the trailer companies state. In fact a growing number of trailer companies are fitting LT tires as OE, either as standard or extra cost option. Major point is, LT tires "CAN" be an option on a trailer, in spite of what well meaning forum posters may state. And yes this is a much repeated forum topic, but new folks are constantly coming into the fold, looking for solid information. It makes sense to me that we repeat the dialog as often as needed. best regards to all, gmw I try real hard not to obfuscate. The way you phrased “approved”, appears as an open blanket approval. It’s not. Tire selection and approval is the vehicle manufacturer’s prerogative for each application. With their selection comes the task of certification. No matter how consumers react to the validity of the federal certification label affixed to their vehicles does not lesson its binding effect on vehicle manufacturers. The tire designated size listed on that certification label sets the minimum standard for that vehicle. It trickles all the way down to replacements and the tire industry standard that says replacements must be the same size as the OE tires and able to provide a load capacity equal to or greater than what the OE tires provided. It has a caveat; deviations must be approved by the vehicle manufacturer or offered as options (SAFECAR or in the individual owner’s manual refers). The vehicle manufacturer is directed by FMVSS (standards) to select tires appropriate for the vehicle they are fitted to and then set the recommended cold inflation pressures. Thus that inflation pressure becomes the minimum standard for the OE tires unless there are deviations in the individual vehicle owner’s manual or on a secondary tire load and inflation placard. (FMVSS 571.120 refers). Things to put in the memory bank: Designated size has always been the official correct size nomenclature for tires. It’s becoming more important as tire manufacturers and their retailers become better trained. P225/75R15, ST225/75R15 and LT235/75R15 are all designated sizes and none of them are interchangeable. The LT tires normally used in the current RV trailer market are actually what I call hybrid. That’s because they are marketed as Regional Service Trailer (RST) tires and have the same restriction on their sidewalls as ST tires. Up in the heavier applications, truck tires designed for service on low platform trailers are used and are normally 17.5” in diameter. However, Airstream fits some of their high end trailers with standard LT tires and offers them as options on other models. About 35-40% of all dual axle bass fishing boat trailers I observed at a recent show had OEM Passenger tires. The last RV trailer I observed with OEM passenger tires was a Dutchman Denali. It had 20” wheel/tire assemblies. It’s very easy to be out of context when writing about tires. The reason is no single reference totally explains things from start to finish or, how they fit together. Government regulations/standards/rules are precise and there is nothing between the lines. All of us have a tendency to read-in things that are just not there. When the document says to do something, it’s directed at the responsible party – the vehicle manufacturer – and no others. In one section of the standard it says the tire must provide a load capacity not less than the load capacity of the axle system it’s fitted to. If you stop there you stopped too soon. In another standard the vehicle manufacturer is directed to fit tires that are appropriate for the vehicle they are fitted to. If they are not comfortable with the previous written minimum standard they can set it higher with their selection, which than becomes the minimum standard for the vehicle. Why? You might ask. Because they must certify their selection which came from a document of minimums. RV trailer brochures do not provide a true reference for many things including tires. Your trailer’s brochure may list the trailer’s axles as 5200#. A true statement but inaccurate because the trailer manufacturer has the authority to recertify them to a lower capacity and certify them to 5080# which will be on the vehicle certification label.
CALandLIN 09/03/19 01:38pm Travel Trailers
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

Regarding whether the trailer manufacturer "allows" fitment of the LT tires, I have posted the picture to this forum of the page in the owner manual of both my Titan horse trailers, and my Load Max equipment trailer, that verifies that either ST or LT are appropriate fitment to the trailer. Pay your money, make your choice. Bottom line; it's their sole decision to make for OE tires. Not the consumers. When the consumer uses unrecommended replacements, that's a decision they have to answer for. Any highway tire can be chosen by the RV trailer manufacturer as long as it falls within the FMVSS (standards). The following statement is mandated to be in RV trailer owner manuals: Tire Size To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same designated size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer. Look at the Tire and Loading Information label, or the sidewall of the tire you are replacing to find this information
CALandLIN 09/01/19 12:42pm Travel Trailers
RE: Multiple Tire Blowouts

Interesting, but it doesn't explain why the older trailers also are not experiencing these failures. Nevertheless, the 10% change was something that needed to be done to bring the RV industry in line with cars and trucks. What is your opinion about the RVIA recommendation for RV trailer manufacturers to discontinue the use of bias ply ST tires on wheels 14" OD and above? I've already found one manufacturer (Kenda) that's already building 12" OD radial tires. Boat Trailer haulers are going to like them as they are LRD with 1520# of load capacity.
CALandLIN 08/31/19 01:10pm Travel Trailers
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