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RE: Hot Water Recirculation Loop - Save Water - Camp Longer

Just watched the video, now I get what is meant by the OP's use of the term "recirculating." He is describing recycling cold water back to the main tank. To me, I was thinking "instant on" recirculating hot water, which creates a loop from and back to the hot water tank, which is driven by a recirculating pump, different than the main pressure pump. This loop is always heated, and when a hot water fixture is used the pressure drop in the loop turns on the main pump which actually provides the driving force for water to come out of the faucet. This would keep the hot water from freezing; the back-to-main-tank loop would not. With properly insulated lines it should not pull too much extra duty from the hot water tank. This is how it works in my house -- even in rooms farthest away from my boiler/hot water tank I have hot water right away. That works great in a residential application but in the RV, I only want the pump to run when needed, not constantly. Battery conservation. I only need 6 seconds of run time on the pump to get hot to the sink. A residential setup has a recirculating pump that runs all the time, at preset times on timer, or at a set temperature. Typically, the loop is taken from the last fixture in line and so should the return line in this setup. My pipes are all insulated and have 1" foamboard plus the TC wall insulating them from the outside in cold temperatures. The pipes are also run together with insulation tube over them and the heater vent hose next to them. The pipes are pretty well protected from freezing.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/14/22 05:10pm Truck Campers
RE: Hot Water Recirculation Loop - Save Water - Camp Longer

First, I have installed a recirculation/conserving system in my campers since 1995. Second, the water should return to the cold holding tank. If the water was hot at the faucet you don’t need to recirculate it. The reason to recirculate is to get hot water to the faucet and return the cold water in the line to the tank, Third, I use a cheap inline irrigation valve ($10 to $12) and a $2 doorbell button. No need to go to specialty valves and pumps. But the stainless-steel valve looks so nice, and the button has that pretty blue light when you push it. Appearance has to be worth something. Just kidding, if it works, that's all it needs to do.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/14/22 04:18pm Truck Campers
RE: Hot Water Recirculation Loop - Save Water - Camp Longer

This might be useful for winter camping. Hot water won't freeze up. Although shouldn't the recirculation return to the hot water tank, not the main tank? At least this is how I plumbed my house's recirc. heat. The water needs to return to the low pressure side of the pump to cause a pressure drop so the pump will start. Returning to the water heater has no pressure drop because it's on the pressure side of the pump so the pump won't activate because no pressuredrophappens. You could return water to the cold Input of the water heater but to make it work, you would need a small pump and a check valve to prevent backflow. Another way to connect if you can make room is to put the return connection to the pipe between the tank and the pump. This way, there is a low pressure connection to the fresh tank and the water will recirulate directly into the intake side of the pump and get pumped right back out into the system, not into the tank neet idea but I think if I were to implement this I would not return it to the tank but rather create a loop from the hot water heater and use a small circ pump. that way you could use it even if you had water hookups but now sewer. True, it won't work when hooked up to citi water but then it's an endless supply of water so running the water to get hot doesn't matter since water is unlimited. When hooked up to city water, I run the water anyway to get the hose smell and taste from the hose out of the line. I have a blue hose that isn't supposed to smell but it does, just not as bad as the white hose. I thought this was about not filling the waist take up as fast. I have camped in several places that have water and power but you dump on the way out if there is a dump. ya I have both a blue and white house in the 5th wheel, the only thing I noticed about the blue one is it costs more ;) I'm posting mostly to see how deeply imbedded this post can get. I only hook up to water if I have a sewer connection, otherwise we'll use electric if it's there but pass on just city water.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/14/22 04:13pm Truck Campers
RE: Hot Water Recirculation Loop - Save Water - Camp Longer

Having flushed more than one water heating tank I would not want to return from it to my fresh water tank . But that’s just me I can guarantee you there is not much difference in internal appearance between your home hot water heater and your RV water heater. Being from Seattle, we enjoy as clean and soft water as you can get anywhere so inside the tank doesn't look too bad. I have never gotten a cup of water heater water at any sink location that looked in the least bit questionable. I have no problem drinking hot water in the shower or brushing teeth. Never had a problem with it. Even so, the amount that will find it's way back into the fresh tank is small so I'm just not worried. If it really bothers you, you can connect the return line to just between the tank and the pump. That way, tank mixing will be nearly 0 and the loop water will simply be drawn into the pump and recirculated immediately back to the water heater.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/13/22 04:19pm Truck Campers
RE: Hot Water Recirculation Loop - Save Water - Camp Longer

This might be useful for winter camping. Hot water won't freeze up. Although shouldn't the recirculation return to the hot water tank, not the main tank? At least this is how I plumbed my house's recirc. heat. The water needs to return to the low pressure side of the pump to cause a pressure drop so the pump will start. Returning to the water heater has no pressure drop because it's on the pressure side of the pump so the pump won't activate because no pressuredrophappens. You could return water to the cold Input of the water heater but to make it work, you would need a small pump and a check valve to prevent backflow. Another way to connect if you can make room is to put the return connection to the pipe between the tank and the pump. This way, there is a low pressure connection to the fresh tank and the water will recirulate directly into the intake side of the pump and get pumped right back out into the system, not into the tank neet idea but I think if I were to implement this I would not return it to the tank but rather create a loop from the hot water heater and use a small circ pump. that way you could use it even if you had water hookups but now sewer. True, it won't work when hooked up to citi water but then it's an endless supply of water so running the water to get hot doesn't matter since water is unlimited. When hooked up to city water, I run the water anyway to get the hose smell and taste from the hose out of the line. I have a blue hose that isn't supposed to smell but it does, just not as bad as the white hose.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/13/22 12:09pm Truck Campers
RE: Hot Water Recirculation Loop - Save Water - Camp Longer

LOL. I use a bucket to catch the water you are saving. My way is way cooler than a bucket and I don't have to screw around with lose water splashing about. Sure it cost time and money, being retired, I have lots of both. I know the water going back into the tank is clean. Bucket water is good for toilets. The water is much more useful to me in the tank! Well, decades back, plumbing my aunt's new house I ran 3 lines to each fixture that use hot water. Uncle figured the solar heater could heat water recirculating back to tank not need to waste water or the electricity to heat it. Aunt loves not waiting for hot water. My house, built in '50s, I have a small tank heater under the kitchen sink. A timer turns it off/on so I have instant hot water when I'm most likely cooking/cleaning. Yes, the bucket is used in bathroom then flushes toilet when needed. I'm not saying your idea is bad. But when you think about the small percentage of time most RV owners spend in them compared to S&B the idea would be better in homes. BTW, for the people that want to extend time on tanks; Save your dish wash water in a bucket w/lid, use to flush saves fresh and grey water tank space. Capture and save dish rinse water. Heat fresh, add to that rinse for next wash.Valve and As a retired home builder, I've installed several recirculation systems. I spend a solid 5 months a year in my TC. Much of it in remote locations. Thismod will work well for me. I don't want to have to think about things, I just want them to work and be convenient. With all the improvements I've made to my TC, it's pretty darn convenient especially with the solar, just like a house now only smaller a d the bathroom should be 2 inches wider. Or I should be 30 pounds thinner.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/13/22 12:01pm Truck Campers
RE: Solar Install

That tape is only as strong as what it's attached to. A screw into a roof member with a quality adhesive caulk works every time.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/12/22 09:22pm Truck Campers
RE: Hot Water Recirculation Loop - Save Water - Camp Longer

Bravo Jeff, that is truly a most logical and creative idea Sir, saving precious water while conserving gray tank space all in one fell swoop - Yea!! :C What is the source and model of the solenoid valve?? 3 tons Valve is "US Solid" half inch stainless steel body solenoid $42.00 Momentary push button switch with LED 10 amp rated by Apiele $16.00 Both from AMAZON. Switch
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/12/22 08:54pm Truck Campers
RE: Hot Water Recirculation Loop - Save Water - Camp Longer

This might be useful for winter camping. Hot water won't freeze up. Although shouldn't the recirculation return to the hot water tank, not the main tank? At least this is how I plumbed my house's recirc. heat. The water needs to return to the low pressure side of the pump to cause a pressure drop so the pump will start. Returning to the water heater has no pressure drop because it's on the pressure side of the pump so the pump won't activate because no pressuredrophappens. You could return water to the cold Input of the water heater but to make it work, you would need a small pump and a check valve to prevent backflow. Another way to connect if you can make room is to put the return connection to the pipe between the tank and the pump. This way, there is a low pressure connection to the fresh tank and the water will recirulate directly into the intake side of the pump and get pumped right back out into the system, not into the tank
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/12/22 08:45pm Truck Campers
RE: Hot Water Recirculation Loop - Save Water - Camp Longer

LOL. I use a bucket to catch the water you are saving. My way is way cooler than a bucket and I don't have to screw around with lose water splashing about. Sure it cost time and money, being retired, I have lots of both. I know the water going back into the tank is clean. Bucket water is good for toilets. The water is much more useful to me in the tank!
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/12/22 04:05pm Truck Campers
RE: We knew it was coming...

The market and prices will do what they do. Go up, go down, As it is now, it has been before. Where it ends up, it has been before. That's economics. I have an older truck and camper. Save The Money! Both serve me very well. Looking forward to another 3 months on the road soon in my faithful, paid off Truck and Camper. Truck Camper Rally in Quartzite February for one. See some of you there!
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/12/22 01:16pm Truck Campers
Hot Water Recirculation Loop - Save Water - Camp Longer

A Great Truck Camper / RV Modification How to Install A Hot Water Recirculation Loop Or Recovery Loop Save Fresh Water And Extend Your Camping Trip A Day Or Two With Water Saved By Not Running It Down The Drain While Waiting For Hot Water To Arrive At The Faucet VIDEO Hot Water Recirculation Loop VIDEO https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/311774170_10223835299050593_9024830605856594546_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_e15_fr_q65&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=1480c5&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=pEEwllwHK50AX_FiKhS&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8SQr_a3xknn9JtnMzEDnRdOkckSfq7sVQiMEZ98996-w&oe=634CD963 width=500 Valve and switch https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/311600230_10223835317611057_229775350637592046_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_e15_fr_q65&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=1480c5&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=3YXJy1BUwuoAX9uWknr&_nc_oc=AQnUmLES2gNiJ_iJ39DplpHVZMq4J_atIt22Ifg5aunoI14z7TQ4BBE3owk9SA80V83KAJk8bRryjZQzycfTh_rw&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_DB4VJo8NAk-napZfMR_Wb0OxynD-sMbwVE5yXKQfvPA&oe=634CC975 width=500 Return Loop into Fresh tank https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/311665676_10223835306050768_374941738017358567_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_e15_fr_q65&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=1480c5&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=UFyQt5wJ4hQAX-VO4Td&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AT8Vdv7tXxkBi3QkeM1NzuackTMEuMqGXYi1Qsto28NSyA&oe=634BB182 width=500 Return Loop from kitchen sink Hot, to solenoid valve then back into fresh tank.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 10/12/22 11:28am Truck Campers
RE: Occasional Winter Camping??

I spent a couple months on the road camping in winter before. My best improvement was putting a couple sheets of lattice fencing in the cab over for breathability with 1" RMAX foamboard on top under the mattress. That greatly helped keep the bed warmer. The other thing was to get a set of heavy flannel sheets. That was one of the biggest helps. Another trick I used was to sleep with my head at the foot of the bed, so it was more in the center of the camper and my feet out front of the cabover. That kept my head and body closer to the warm area of the camper and my feet in the colder area. I like having my feet cooler. I like my comfort, so My furnace is set to not less than 62 degrees at night and 65 or 70 in the day, whatever it takes to be comfortable. I have 400 AH of lithium and 675 watts solar on the roof, so power is of no concern excepting for clouds and shade. Charging gets better the farther south you go in winter. If I fall short of charging after a couple days, no matter because I'll probably be relocating to the next location and the 30-amp dc to dc charger will recharge the battery system back to full in the time it takes me to drive to the next location. If I stay at a site with electricity, I have a 1000-watt 3' wide baseboard heater that works well down to about 25 degrees, then I need to supplement heating using the furnace. I think 5 degrees F is the coldest I've camped. Keep in mind I have measured a 30-degree difference between the floor and the countertop in the TC. In the real cold conditions, I have a small fan that blows cabin air down into the basement for the holding tanks. The tanks do sit on top of 1/2" Styrofoam, so they have a little thermal protection. Get some really thick slippers and socks for hanging in the TC because your feet will get cold in those conditions. OK, those are my tricks. That's how I stay warm in the winter.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 09/16/22 07:00pm Truck Campers
RE: got a new camper

the fridge issue was a bad thermister. Holding at 35 with the new one in place. Lost water pressure. Another easy fix. Camper had been sitting for a while and they did not drain the fresh tank, Algae totally pugged the pre water pump strainer. cleaned that out Clorox bombed the water system, multiple times with a bunch of fill, add clorox, drive to shake the water everywhere let sit for a day drain, repeat, then do multiple fills and drain plus flush the hose lines to clear the clorox and gunk out of the system. https://tinyurl.com/2s43wc6p width=600 https://tinyurl.com/4944pe37 width=600 Never seen algae in the freshwater system before. I do fill my fresh system with Seattle city water after each trip knowing it might be a while before we head out again. There is zero light getting to the tank and water system. I guess the chlorinated city water stores well and prevents growth
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 09/16/22 03:01pm Truck Campers
RE: Victron DC to DC in engine compartment?

I mounted my Victron 30 amp charger about 2 feet from the batteries. I ran 4 gauge wire from the alternator back to the charger. 4 gauge is good for the distance The charger terminals accept up to 6 gauge wire so I had to trim out a few strands of wire before the 4 gauge would fit the terminal. The setup works great and I've never noticed the unit getting hot.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 09/08/22 10:48pm Truck Campers
RE: got a new camper

only frustrating thing so far is the fridge. Of course I have nothing in it. The ambient daytime temps are going up to 115 so the Norcold N7LX.3 goes up to 60 in the day ( camper windows are open and the AC is off}. The fridge returns to 34F in the morning. I probably can't expect much better from a gas absorption fridge though. I will have it out this weekend and the temps with only be in the mid 80s so I will see haw it does then. The Thermister wires were seriously kinked so it could be an issue. I have a replacement coming. Other than that everything works really well. First project besides loading gear is to fix the known wire issue in the kitchen slide. Unprotected wires running over 2 90 degree wooden edges which can bare the wiring and cause a short. Easy fix. Is the side with the fridge exposed to the sun? My fridge would heat up when that side was exposed to the sun. Lowering the awning to shade the side helped greatly. When I installed the new cooling g unit, I also installed an inch of RMAX foam board on the exterior wall, inside the fridge compartment. I actually installed the foam board throughout the fridge compartment and it greatly improved cooling g performance.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 09/08/22 10:24pm Truck Campers
RE: got a new camper

Nice upgrade. Can you hear an echo in there with all that space? Any suspension adjustments anticipated? nope it weighs the same as my 1055. On the way home we took the Rogue river from near Crater Lake NP to Medford which was the same way we went coming up. I noticed no difference in handling between carrying both campers Great to hear it handles well, makes the transition simple. Enjoy the times ahead.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 09/07/22 12:35am Truck Campers
RE: got a new camper

Nice upgrade. Can you hear an echo in there with all that space? Any suspension adjustments anticipated?
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 09/06/22 08:12pm Truck Campers
RE: 2023 TCA Rally

Gonna do it again this year. Lots of fun and nice people last year.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 09/06/22 06:24pm Truck Campers
RE: My new race car alternator for LiFePO4 batt bank

It is all about the internal resistance and admittence of the lifepo battery. Those batteries want a lot of current. The BMS is Lord and Master over those characteristics. The Victron has circuitry to deal with that accordingly. You can get an external BMS that may better regulate the output to input of your alternator. I have a 160 amp alternator with a 30 amp dc to dc. 30 amps limit is a good point when it comes to night driving with everything on. Headlights, windshield wipers,defrost compressor, heater blower on high, all the running lights, stereo cranked up. 30 amps leaves headroom for everything else to run if needed.
Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli 09/04/22 04:23pm Truck Campers
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