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RE: DOT Endurance Test for ST Tires NOT same for LT Tires

I would say that the manufactures of the tires run there own tests and pass that info along with the results to get the ratings. Otherwise how would they come up with them? I don't think they guess. This is just the DOT testing and most likely does not represent the actual testing the tires go through by the manufacturers when they are conceived. Allow me to confirm that tire manufacturers do their own testing, but they also do their own rating. DOT does only verification/ spot check testing. If they (DOT) find no issues, no one knows about the tests. If they (DOT) find an issue, they contact the tire manufacturer for clarification. And just to be clear: Since we are talking about ST and LT tires, the load table is set by the tire standardizing organization - The Tire and Rim Association - and the tires are tested against that standard. But for speed rating, there is an ATSM (SAE) test - again, conducted by the tire manufacturers for compliance to their published rating which DOT might test for compliance. And just an FYI, for ST tires, the speed limitation for unrated tires is 65 mph, but there is no published speed limitation for unrated LT tires. Yes, this is a bit of a conundrum.
CapriRacer 03/02/21 07:28am Towing
RE: DOT Endurance Test for ST Tires NOT same for LT Tires

As a tire engineer, I find this discussion thread very entertaining - and enlightening! Enlightening because of the misunderstanding many people have about tires and specifically ST tires. First is that not only were the DOT tire standards not changed until 2000 (because of the Ford/Firestone situation), but one of the criticisms of the DOT at the time was that they weren't updating the standards based on what was being learned. For example, it was obvious almost from the beginning of the DOT tire standards that the standards were not adequate to insure no tire failures (meaning not road hazard related failures!). It took nearly 40 years for the government to react - and it took a HUGE situation for there to be change. Plus, there is still no standard on tire aging. And don't forget, that when ST tires were introduced, many of the speed limits included travel trailers in the slower speed set for trucks. Yup, very entertaining.
CapriRacer 03/01/21 06:08am Towing
RE: What constitutes a "new" tire?

It is a commonly held belief within the tire industry that any tire within 6 years of the manufacture date can be sold as "NEW". I say "belief" because I know of no data that supports (or denies) this. 6 yrs or 6 months. I seriously doubt you could get a manufacture to go on record saying a 6yr old tire is like new. Also, are you talking about legally or realistically? Legally, new products that have not been sold before are considered "new". Find a dealer with a 1985 Ford Ranger that's been sitting at the back of the lot never sold, the dealer can legitimately sell it as new but realistically, they aren't going to lie and say it's a 2021 model. If you read the rest of the post, I said they TESTED the tires and could not find a difference after 3 years. They did not test beyond that because they wanted to set a policy of 3 years and wanted data to back that up. No, they didn't publish the data - it was for internal use. So what is the 3yr policy they were testing for? - Can't sell a tire that has set in the warehouse for 3yrs: In that case, it's a flawed test. It should then continue out for somewhere around 8-10yrs as the 3yr mark doesn't test the impact on end of life condition. - Buyers can use the tires for at least 3 yrs if they buy and mount them immediately after manufacture: Thanks for telling us the obvious. This story doesn't make sense. I think the key point you are missing is that tires age much more slowly when sitting in a warehouse compared to being in service.
CapriRacer 02/27/21 06:53am Class A Motorhomes
RE: What constitutes a "new" tire?

It is a commonly held belief within the tire industry that any tire within 6 years of the manufacture date can be sold as "NEW". I say "belief" because I know of no data that supports (or denies) this. 6 yrs or 6 months. I seriously doubt you could get a manufacture to go on record saying a 6yr old tire is like new. Also, are you talking about legally or realistically? Legally, new products that have not been sold before are considered "new". Find a dealer with a 1985 Ford Ranger that's been sitting at the back of the lot never sold, the dealer can legitimately sell it as new but realistically, they aren't going to lie and say it's a 2021 model. If you read the rest of the post, I said they TESTED the tires and could not find a difference after 3 years. They did not test beyond that because they wanted to set a policy of 3 years and wanted data to back that up. No, they didn't publish the data - it was for internal use.
CapriRacer 02/26/21 06:33am Class A Motorhomes
RE: What constitutes a "new" tire?

It is a commonly held belief within the tire industry that any tire within 6 years of the manufacture date can be sold as "NEW". I say "belief" because I know of no data that supports (or denies) this. However, the tire manufacturer I worked for did test 3 year old tires and could find no performance difference to freshly made tires. So not only is a month a deal breaker from the tire dealer's perspective, I doubt that the tire dealer could actually get a tire that fast through normal channels.
CapriRacer 02/25/21 06:51am Class A Motorhomes
RE: tire rim weight rating

The best research I have done says that there is no regulation that requires wheels to be identified by maximum weight carrying, or maximum pressure - BUT - wheels are designed and manufactured such that they will carry the largest weight for the vehicle they are fitted to - and that is controlled by the number of lugs. Yes, that's right, the number of lugs. Then that controls the weight limitations of the vehicle and therefore the wheel. Further, tire inflation pressure doesn't matter when it comes to wheel strength. It's the max load that overwhelms things to the point where stresses due to tire inflation pressure are trivial.
CapriRacer 01/26/21 06:38am Truck Campers
RE: Tire went flat in the driveay. Damage?

.... For starters, I would stop buying antique tires built up with multiple cotton plys. ;) ..... I'm pretty sure only a few people got that joke! Probably. Heck even the letter grades are outdated. They give the load ratings in pounds in the modern world and that's what counts. I think you mean Load Index. The load rating in pounds has been required for over 50 years - when tires came under federal regulation about 1970. Load Ranges were in effect at that time. And this is where it gets complicated. The Europeans came up with the idea of Load Index, but they still use Ply Rating, not Load Ranges. It's complicated because most tire manufacturers use all 3 on the sidewall (with some exceptions.) Not to mention that it is also a federal requirement to indicate what the tire is made out of (aside from rubber), so the sidewall will typically say something like: "Sidewall: 2 plies polyester Tread: 2 plies polyester, 2 plies steel, 2 plies polyamide"
CapriRacer 01/13/21 07:27am Towing
RE: Tire went flat in the driveay. Damage?

.... For starters, I would stop buying antique tires built up with multiple cotton plys. ;) ..... I'm pretty sure only a few people got that joke!
CapriRacer 01/12/21 06:49am Towing
RE: Tire went flat in the driveay. Damage?

I came out this morning and the left tire on my utility trailer was dead flat. Just came back from a 260 mile round trip, and it was up and fine when I went to bed last night. The valve stem failed catastrophically during the night. Glad it didn't happen on the road. Would the tire have sustained any damage from just going flat in the driveway? Tire is only 2 years old. The risk here is that there may be damage inside. The safe thing to do is replace the tire. If you reinflate the tire (do this carefully!!) and see sidewall ripples, replace the tire. If you reinflate the tire and don't see sidewall ripples, that doesn't mean the tire is good. It means you don't know!
CapriRacer 01/12/21 06:46am Towing
RE: Another tire question

My new trailer came with Load range H tires. Is that a problem?;) No, because a Load Range H inflated to Load Range E (or whatever) inflation pressure behaves like a LR E (or whatever). You might want to consider WHY you have a LR H on the vehicle. A bit more information would be helpful, like: Year, make, and model of vehicleWhat does the vehicle tire placard says about size, Load Range, and inflation pressure?Did you weigh it? What did you get?Make and model of tireWhat inflation pressure are you using now? How did you determine that?
CapriRacer 12/15/20 05:55am Travel Trailers
RE: RV parked for a lengthy period

The real problem here with tires is not the concrete. It's with the sitting. Tires can flatspot. The more load (less inflation), and the longer it sits, the worse the flatspotting. I've heard of tires flatspotting in 3 months. But the vehicle has sat for a year, so it undoubtedly has flatspots. What to do? First, move the vehicle forward or backward a half a tire revolution (4 feet?). That would put another flatspot 180° out of phase, which is better because the suspension reacts to a single flatspot worse than 2 flatspots. Or jack it put and rotate the tires 1/2 turn. Another would be to overinflate the tires - say 20 psi. No!!, the tire will not explode (unless it is damaged, but then it was going to explode sometime later anyway!)
CapriRacer 12/14/20 04:42am General RVing Issues
RE: Another tire question

There is an E speed rating, but in this case, it's referring to the Load Range. It's a way of designating how much load a tire can carry: For the same size, a LR E will carry more load than a LR D (albeit at a higher inflation pressure.) The old way of doing this was "Ply Rating" and the old 10PR = LR E - BUT - that confused many people into thinking that 10 PR actually had 10 plies! Not true, as a typical LR E tire uses 4 plies - 2 polyester body plies and 2 steel belts. The weight, sidewall stiffness. and RR of a LR E is only slightly worse than a LR D - and that's because LR D tires also have - typically - 2 polyester body plies and 2 steel belts, just a bit stronger. That means you shouldn't worry about using a LR E in place of a LR D - the differences are minor.
CapriRacer 12/13/20 06:25am Travel Trailers
RE: Replacing 1972 16.5 Inch Rims Advice

Here's a link that might help: Barry's Tire Tech: 16.5" Tires
CapriRacer 12/11/20 06:30am Tow Vehicles
RE: E rated tire with max psi of 65?

...... While you SAY burst pressure the reason, then add that burst is many times the max pressure, it would seem that 80 psi rather than 65 psi, would not cause burst. ..... What's really going on here is fatigue strength. Wikipedia: Fatigue (material) Tires are all about fatigue and in order to design a tire to go through 10's of millions of cycles (rotations), the designers uses the burst pressure as a reference and then uses a factor to increase the strength to get the desired fatigue life - which they get from an S-N Curve for the material in question. So while tires don't burst at 80 or 100, or 150 psi, that burst pressure is an indicator as to the fatigue life. Good to see where your info comes from. While there are many types of tires, if you would have taken the time to read the link Burb posted, it is a hybrid type (dual purpose) tire, that by design, would work best, considering sidewall and tread at 65 psi. Other tires purpose will vary, and while e-rated, may also be less than 80 psi. ...... Ah .... That's not how it works. The simplest way to describe this is to say: 1) that the WORST condition is the onroad condition, because heat is the tire killer! So the fact that we are discussing an onroad/offroad tire still means the onroad condition is what the tire engineer has to design against. 2) that the tables were set up (over 80 years ago!) so that a construction for a given Load Range works for all tire sizes - which means that when a tire gets to a certain size, it can't withstand the stress, so the Load Range drops down to the next lower increment - in this case from 80 psi down to 65 psi.
CapriRacer 12/04/20 04:57am Tow Vehicles
RE: E rated tire with max psi of 65?

There seems to be some question about where I got my information that larger sized E Load Range tires use 65 psi max pressure rather than the usual 80 psi max - and that maybe onroad/offroad has something to do with it. I have in front of me the 2020 Tire and Rim Association (TRA) Yearbook. TRA is the source standard for the load tables (among other things!) for US based tire manufacturers. In that book are ALL the current load tables for EVERY type of tire (except aircraft - separate book - and anything non-standard) It shows many E Load Range LT tire sizes as having 65 psi max pressures as well as the ones we normally deal with (including sizes that aren't produced!) The tables do NOT refer to onroad/offroad as one of the parameters in determining the max pressure. However, it does reference changes in load carrying capacity for various speeds. (again, no change in the max pressure!) And lastly, why do my posts take so long to show up? I normally post in the morning - part of my daily ritual. I only recently updated to a smart phone and haven't yet figured out how to connect it to my email alerts. Plus, does this site give email alerts? More things to learn about! (edit: When I clicked to post the above, I found how to get email alerts! Now to learn how to link the phone to my email so I get alerts!)
CapriRacer 12/03/20 06:14am Tow Vehicles
RE: E rated tire with max psi of 65?

Where are all the tire engineers when you need them? My wag is that these tires are designed as onroad/offroad, so even though e-rated, a lesser max pressure is best for the hybrid use, that the tread and sidewalls are designed for. JMO, but I'd not use a wider tire, than what the rim is designed for. Jerry So here I am. It's a long story why some E Load Range tires have a max pressure of 65 psi, but it deals with the burst pressure - ergo larger sized tires will have the lower pressure. It has nothing to do with onroad/offroad. This is not unique to E Load range tires. And just to assure some folks: The burst pressure of a tire is many times the max pressure. Tires do NOT burst based solely on the pressure. They will burst if they hit an object hard enough, regardless of the actual pressure in the tire. They'll also burst if cut deep enough to cut cords!
CapriRacer 12/02/20 04:33am Tow Vehicles
RE: Strange advice

More fuel for the fire: The questioner in the article could just be that poor, unlucky fellow whose statistics ran out on him and he got 2 road hazards the same day. Been know to happen
CapriRacer 11/29/20 06:19am General RVing Issues
RE: Tire Valve Stem Cracking

I work at a medium size RV dealership. Tens of thousands of customers over the years (41 years) Probably MILLIONS of tires over those years. NOT ONCE HAVE I HAD A CUSTOMER COME BACK AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A FAILURE OF VALVE STEMS. This post is much ado about NOTHING. Doug A 3rd vote that there have been problems. I've lost 2 tires - at high speed - due to old valve stems. Never again will I cheap out.
CapriRacer 11/03/20 05:43am Tech Issues
RE: PSI rating variables

First, there ought to be a tire placard somewhere on the vehicle. I've heard it is common for that to be near the driver's front corner. What does it say for tire size and pressure? Use that as a first step. Second, it would be good to weigh the trailer - individual tire weights if possible - if not, at least axle by axle. Then you need to add a factor if you didn't get individual tire weights - 7% if axle by axle, 12% if all axles together. Then compare that to the load carrying capacity of the tires. I am of the opinion that tires should be loaded to more than 85% of their capacity at the pressure used. You never told us what tire size you have so I am wondering why anyone would think they could give you advice! Mix of LT's and ST's, yes! But are the numbers even the same? I am going to suggest you prioritize getting all the tires replaced. You're in Southern California, and the sun can really take a toll!
CapriRacer 10/26/20 07:03am Toy Haulers
"Goodyear Endurance Tire Failures"

Here's the link to the closed discussion: https://forums.goodsamclub.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30102538/gotomsg/30158262.cfm#30158262 I didn't get to comment on the last post, so I am doing it here. First, thanks to cummins2014 for the help on the google key word search. That indeed brought up some complaints - HOWEVER - none of them on the first page were actual failures. They were ALL road hazard failures! This took me a couple of hours to wade through all the discussion threads brought up - and interestingly, there were many discussion covering the same points raised in this forum! Needless to say I am pretty peeved to have spent so much time on a fruitless search. Conclusion: There have been no reports of structural failures with the Goodyear Endurance ST tires - only road hazard related ones.
CapriRacer 10/22/20 07:57am Fifth-Wheels
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