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RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

OK, I'm ready to give up on finding the cause of the tstat resetting. I am think of installing a mechanical, 2-wire thermostat next to the existing tstat, but I want to be sure to wire it up correctly. The existing tstat is supplied with 12-volts via a red wire and there is a white wire that is labeled "Furnace" in the tstat manual. My assumption is that the white wire supplies 12-volts to the furnace whenever the tstat calls for heat. Leaving the red wire connected to the existing tstat, I plan on tapping off the red wire to provide 12-volts to the new tstat. Then I would disconnect the white wire from the existing tstat and connect it to the new tstat. Sound like the right way to do it? Thanks I quoted my plan above just to refresh everyone's memory. Well, I finally got around to executing my plan, and it worked perfectly - AFTER I bought a compatible tstat. According to Honeywell, the CT87K was not going to work in a 12VDC system. (It was designed for a 24VAC system.) I exchanged the CT87K for a CT53K which is about as old tech as you can go. Completely mechanical with the old bi-metallic coil. So now I have two tstats mounted side-by-side: the OEM which controls only the Air Conditioner / Heat Pump, and the CT53K which controls only the furnace. I would have preferred to solve the original problem without having to use a workaround, but tracking down why 12VDC to the tstat was being interrupted was beyond my knowledge level.
CarnationSailor 12/10/19 04:59pm Tech Issues
RE: norcold ice maker

Our 5th has a valve under the sink to shutoff water to the refer.
CarnationSailor 11/24/19 10:04am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

Check the 4wire bundle, red 12+ & the White is furnace. The 3 wire bundle does the fan speeds & the HP reversing valve. If mfg followed colemans specs for OEM install. Are you referring to wire bundles up at the air conditioner? I ask because the 3 wire bundle at the tstat connects to tstat terminals identified as +12 vdc, -12 vdc, and Furnace. The 3 wire bundle is all about the furnace. It's the 4 wire bundle that goes to the AC/heat pump. I think we might be rehashing ground already covered. I believe I've proven that to turn on the furnace, the OEM tstat connects the red +12 vdc wire to the white "Furnace" wire - both of which are in a 3-wire bundle at the tstat. I think I just need to find a new tstat that will do the same thing - allowing me to move furnace control from the OEM tstat to the new tstat. Getting ready to head south tomorrow so I may have to put this on hold until we get to S. Cal. Thanks
CarnationSailor 11/09/19 07:43pm Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

Which 8530-xxx do you have as there are a couple of different series ? From your original post, you said something about turning on the batteries so I have to ask are you turning off a battery disconnect and killing the 12volts to the rv ? It's either the 8530-345 or 8530-348. Doesn't matter which one as they both are wired the same. (Actually, I think the 8530-345 is white and the 8530-348 is black. Or vice versa.) No, I am not turning the disconnect switch on or off. I only mentioned that in my first post so as to be clear what I meant by the tstat's "default setting"; that is, when it is first powered up, it starts at (defaults to) a setting of 72 degrees.
CarnationSailor 11/09/19 04:23pm Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

Doug's link to the Tstat shows that on "Gas"- the WF (white) is energized. Heat pump has white/black energized. I take it that the Gas switch position connects the two parts of the white wire so that acts like connecting the two ends of the blue wires. I assume the red wire is just to power the Tstat. When you go to the Heat pump position, that energizes both the gas and the HP so they do that "gap" routine. Your mystery is why when on Gas only and you have set 66F, it sometimes sets itself to 72F, the default after a power interruption to the Tstat. The Red wire power to the Tstat is not from the furnace as such (which should have its own 12v power supply that the Tstat switches), but it might come from the same connection the furnace gets its power from. Say the Tstat's connection is loose but the furnace's connection is tight. Or not making contact inside one of those wire nuts mentioned? Assumes the furnace keeps running after the Tstat jumps to 72 and now the problem is just that it gets too warm in the RV. Assumes the furnace will cycle off at 72. You said the problem does not happen when in heat pump mode where both the HP and the furnace are energized and you get to where you are on furnace assist. Mystery why a loose red wire would not lose its contact sometimes then too. Yes, however, heat pump mode does not energize both the heat pump and the furnace. It energizes only the heat pump except when the tstat is calling for a 5 or more degree increase.
CarnationSailor 11/09/19 01:57pm Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

BFL13, "It seems your OEM's brain isn't working right for how it switches between heat pump and furnace." It works as specified. If I am in heat pump mode and increase the setting by 5 or more degrees above the current room temp, it automatically turns the furnace on to augment the heat pump. That is the only heat pump/furnace interaction that is supposed to happen. I just put a meter on the OEM tsat. With the system OFF, I have 12 vdc on the red wire's connection point inside the tstat and 0 vdc on the white wire's connection point. (I am reasonably sure these wires come from/to the furnace.) Then when I switch to "Gas Heat" mode, the white (and red) wire's connection point has 12 vdc on it, and the furnace turns on. This is consistent with the tstat's manual which says that it "energizes" the furnace via the WF (White Furnace) wire. So I seem to have a red wire and a white wire coming from the furnace that are "shorted" together by the tstat - much as your two blue wires are shorted together by a heat-only tstat. I still think the problem has to do with the tstat I bought from Lowe's. However, as you say, things could be much more complicated than this. Tracing wires and/or replacing the wires between the furnace and the tstat is going to be a last resort option as my furnace is in a very inaccessible area.
CarnationSailor 11/09/19 12:47pm Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

The Suburban gas furnace Installation manual should explain which wires to use with the thermostat. ( Any link to the manual on Google? We could check that out.) Of the three wires you need two with this Tstat AFAIK, but which two? IMO you can find out by touching them together. Yes, the Tstat is just a switch and has its own battery to power it, so it does not matter if the wire ends on W and R are 12v. Do you mean to go without the air conditioner and heat pump now, and just have the furnace? (Where we camp on the Island here we never need air conditioning, but YMMV) From the tstat manual, the only thing that makes sense is to connect the red (+12 vdc) to the white (Furnace) via the additional tstat. But this didn't work and you seem sure that it doesn't matter that the 2nd tstat is made for a 24 vac system. Maybe that means that the tstat that I bought from Lowe's is bad? Does it work if you manually connect the wires together (no thermostat involved)? If not, does it work to connect the white to the other (ground) wire? One pair of them should make the furnace run, and those are the two that get connected to the thermostat. Since it has a battery, ignore the 24VAC power connections entirely. If manually jumping the wires makes the furnace run but connecting them to the thermostat does not, then it would seem the thermostat is indeed bad or you're misunderstanding the connections to it--which admittedly is not at all hard to do with some thermostats as the conventions and instructions for wiring them seem to have been invented by insane Martians. If no combination of wires makes the furnace run, then perhaps you accidentally shorted the wrong ones together at some point and blew the furnace fuse (there may well be a smallish value one on the furnace control board). The furnace still works when controlled via the OEM tstat so no blown fuse. Although it seems logical to me that the only wires from the furnace to use are the red (+12 vdc) and the white ("Furnace"), I will test that by shorting them together. (I'm pretty sure if I involve the one labeled "-12 vdc", I'm going to end up send 12 volts to ground and blowing a fuse somewhere.) Since we are leaving for Palm Springs in the morning, I'll postpone any further troubleshooting until we get there. (It's upper 80's there now so I can risk accidentally disabling both my furnace and my heat pump AFTER we get there!)
CarnationSailor 11/09/19 10:28am Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

Ok, I thought you disabled the OEM Tstat by removing the white wire and moving it over to the new Furnace only Tstat. I don't have a clue about the heat pump side and all that. Doug has some ideas earlier in the thread--he does have a clue! Yes, Doug seems to be very knowledgeable. He did say that my problem can be difficult to troubleshoot. That is why I have abandoned trying to fix the problem and am trying to make this work around work. Thanks for your time helping me.
CarnationSailor 11/09/19 10:09am Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

The Suburban gas furnace Installation manual should explain which wires to use with the thermostat. ( Any link to the manual on Google? We could check that out.) Of the three wires you need two with this Tstat AFAIK, but which two? IMO you can find out by touching them together. Yes, the Tstat is just a switch and has its own battery to power it, so it does not matter if the wire ends on W and R are 12v. Do you mean to go without the air conditioner and heat pump now, and just have the furnace? (Where we camp on the Island here we never need air conditioning, but YMMV) From the tstat manual, the only thing that makes sense is to connect the red (+12 vdc) to the white (Furnace) via the additional tstat. But this didn't work and you seem sure that it doesn't matter that the 2nd tstat is made for a 24 vac system. Maybe that means that the tstat that I bought from Lowe's is bad? No, I don't intend to go without the air conditioner and heat pump. Everything works fine now EXCEPT the OEM tstat (which I have replaced to no avail) randomly jumps to its default setting of 72 degrees ONLY when using the furnace. That is quite uncomfortable when it does it in the middle of the night after we have set it to 66 and the bedroom (being the highest place in the 5th-wheel) gets up to around 75 or so. My plan has been to move the furnace control from the OEM tstat to a new "heat only" tstat. My plan is not to replace the OEM tstat. (All of this is documented earlier on in this thread.) As long as the outside temps are above 40, we get by with the heat pump and fireplace, but the furnace is our only option when dry camping.
CarnationSailor 11/09/19 09:32am Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

OP, you mentioned 3 wires so have a question. Is your heatpump a Dometic and if so you might have the " communicating " tstat & if so that's what you must use. The 3 wires I mentioned are in a sheath and come from the gas furnace. There are 4 wires in another sheath that come from the Coleman Air Conditioner/Heat Pump. With only 4 wires back to roof AC , you don't have a heatpump based on the Coleman wireing diagrams I have seen. Trust me, I have a heat pump. Check out the online manual for my thermostat which is the RVComfort.HP Model 8530. Seven wires are attached to it and are identified as follows: These 3 connect to trailer wires that are in the same sheath so undoubtedly go to the same place, the furnace: Red (+12 vdc) Blue (-12 vdc) White (Furnace) These 4 connect to trailer wires that are in another sheath so they go to the same place, the Air Conditioner/Heat Pump: Gray (Fan Lo) Green (Fan Hi) White/Black (Heat Pump) Yellow (Compressor)
CarnationSailor 11/09/19 09:13am Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

"I'll let you know how it goes after I obtain the right tstat" The new one you have might work if you want to isolate the furnace as the heat source. But the actual furnace wires that would go to its Tstat need to be identified. On my old time Atwood furnace it is two blue wires that go to the Tstat and are switched there. On my new digital Honeywell, one goes to the W and one goes to R and it doesn't matter which goes to which. On yours, you need to find the two wires, whichever they are, that come from the furnace that the Tstat switches. Then put them on W and R and it ought to work. They should start the furnace just by touching them together, so I suppose you could take them all off the OEM and start touching them until you find the two that make the furnace start. (Not sure that is such a good idea in case it hurts some thing else) On mine you can see the two blue wires leaving the power end of the furnace and going through a wall as a pair, and they come out at the Tstat. Perhaps your furnace has something visible like that for the wires that go off to the Tstat. Perhaps a wiring diagram exists for that furnace in your rig. The new tstat is designed to work on 24 VAC systems. I doubt that I could get it to work on my 12 VDC system.
CarnationSailor 11/09/19 12:45am Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

OP, you mentioned 3 wires so have a question. Is your heatpump a Dometic and if so you might have the " communicating " tstat & if so that's what you must use. The 3 wires I mentioned are in a sheath and come from the gas furnace. There are 4 wires in another sheath that come from the Coleman Air Conditioner/Heat Pump.
CarnationSailor 11/09/19 12:44am Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

" Leaving the red wire connected to the existing tstat, I plan on tapping off the red wire to provide 12-volts to the new tstat. Then I would disconnect the white wire from the existing tstat and connect it to the new tstat" Does a voltmeter confirm you got 12v to the new Tstat? ISTR on my furnace- only Tstat, the two wires are "positive" from the furnace and are switched by the Tstat. Not sure where "negative" is. Note the fan switch position. It is confusing that you have a heat pump, but this is for the furnace. EDIT--the furnace operates its own fan, so not sure what that is about. Not clear on whether taking the red and white from old Tstat gets you the wires to put on W and R with the new. Also the new has its own battery, does not use 12v from the RV, not sure where that applies in this case. Here is how the original one is supposed to work --if the wires from that are in cut -out with the heat pump even with that white one removed, not clear what is going on. http://old.rvcomfort.com/rvp/pdf_documents/t_stat_electric_heat_function.pdf Thanks for the help. Your mentioning that the CT87K had an internal battery caused me to re-read the owner's manual (more closely this time). It is for 24 VAC systems - not 12 VDC systems. So I think my plan is sound, but I need to get a compatible thermostat. Here is how I understand the OEM tstat works: It connects to the furnace via three wires. It gets 12 VDC on one wire, ground on another wire, and uses the 3rd wire to control the furnace. (The 12-volts and ground are used by the tstat for the digital display as well as other funtions so I have to leave them connected to the tstat. That's why am tapping off of the 12 volt line to go to the new tstat.) The OEM tstat "energizes" the white wire from the tstat which connects to the furnace's control wire. Basically, (I think) it receives 12 volts from the furnace and when heat is called for, it returns the 12 volts to the furnace via the control wire. It essentially shorts the red wire from the furnace to the control wire from the furnace to turn it on. As for the fan mode and fan speed switches on the OEM tstat, they control the air conditioner's fan both in cooling mode and in heat pump mode. I'll let you know how it goes after I obtain the right tstat.
CarnationSailor 11/08/19 06:18pm Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

With no thermostat as a switch, you can touch the two wires together to make the furnace come on. If it does, then it is the Tstat or its wiring that needs looking at. If it does not, then the furnace needs looking at starting with whether there is any 12v to the furnace. Please read the entire thread to gain an understanding of the unique problem I am dealing with.
CarnationSailor 11/08/19 07:50am Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

Not sure I understand your response, but, yes, I did follow the instructions that the link you provided references. What went wrong is that after making the connections, turning on battery power, and increasing the setting to well-above the ambient temperature, the furnace did not turn on.
CarnationSailor 11/07/19 08:08pm Tech Issues
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

I wired the new tstat as I described in my previous post, and it didn't work. The new tstat never turned on the furnace. The tstat I installed was a Honeywell CT87K. Any ideas?
CarnationSailor 11/07/19 06:28pm Tech Issues
RE: Air Conditioner

I think the OP wants to add an air deflector to the top of his RV by attaching it to a roof-top AC unit. He is concerned that the force of the wind might be too much for the AC structure.
CarnationSailor 10/27/19 12:39pm Tech Issues
RE: Show type of RV on question page

“most stuff for TC's is of little or not concern to most of the rest of us.” Speak for yourself, please. Maybe we should start a new discussion titled, "Is a truck camper really an RV?" ;)
CarnationSailor 10/17/19 10:16am General RVing Issues
RE: Albuquerque Balloon Festival Questions

Stay on-site at the dry-camping area adjacent to the entrance to the launch field. You can fill-up your water tank on-site. It's a tremendous experience! Call for reservations on the Monday after this year's fiesta closes.
CarnationSailor 09/24/19 07:14pm Roads and Routes
RE: Flaky Furnace Thermostat

OK, I'm ready to give up on finding the cause of the tstat resetting. I am think of installing a mechanical, 2-wire thermostat next to the existing tstat, but I want to be sure to wire it up correctly. The existing tstat is supplied with 12-volts via a red wire and there is a white wire that is labeled "Furnace" in the tstat manual. My assumption is that the white wire supplies 12-volts to the furnace whenever the tstat calls for heat. Leaving the red wire connected to the existing tstat, I plan on tapping off the red wire to provide 12-volts to the new tstat. Then I would disconnect the white wire from the existing tstat and connect it to the new tstat. Sound like the right way to do it? Thanks
CarnationSailor 09/20/19 04:25pm Tech Issues
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