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RE: Is this doable or am I overlooking something??

I'm not in denial that it doesn't cost the CG more. Hwevrer for the most part these cost are negligible. For every guy running a 2nd codr there is someone staying in a tent or someone gone for the day and using minimal electric. If electric cost where truly a profit and loss nightmare CG's would go to a metered format. However most do not simply because its not necessary. They set a price a build in a can't lose allowance for electric. Now I agree there are CG's with wiring issues and CG's that feel they are being taking advantage of that prohibit 2nd cords. My current rig is 50 amp so I can run a couple of space heaters microwave etc. with no issues. Occasionally I end up on a 30 amp site, when 50 amp site are unavailable. Many state parks have only 30 amp sites. In this scenario, I will use a 2nd cord to run my 2nd A/C when required. I have my A/C wired through a transfer switch that allows me to chose 2nd cord circuit or internal (normal) 50 amp circuit. When electricity is included in the overnight rates, the owner has factored that into the pricing. 50amp sites are almost always higher priced and one of the big reasons for that is 50amp rigs use more power. Likewise, tent sites are often lower cost. For an individual renter, $6/night may sound negligible but when you multiply that out over 30 days per month and dozens of sites, it quickly becomes very significant for the owner.When a park offers electricity (or any other amenity) as inclusive in the price that park has made that decision based on "average" usage. When a renter wants to add additional loads to those amenities beyond normal usage the park may need to place safeguards in their policies and procedures to prevent that from happening. We learned that lesson the hard way. At our first park, when we were new to the business, we took some winter guests. We did not have metered electric, so we just went with our normal monthly rate. Little did we know that those guests would electrically heat everything. They used space heaters inside their rig. They had heat tape on all their lines. They even placed space heaters under their rigs, open to the outdoor air. They got that additional power by using every available outlet on the pedestal plus ran additional cords to the neighboring pedestals. Our normal in season power bill ran around $100.00 per rented site. That winter the power cost us over $600.00 per rented site. The site rental didn't even cover the power, much less the water, Sewer, cable TV, Wifi, Snow Removal, costs of keeping the restrooms open etc. It ended up being a multi-thousand dollar lesson learned. Years of experience has taught us that you never know what lurks inside the RV you just rented a site to. It might just be a single space heater that would only add pennies to the power bill. However, it might someone who feels it is fine to run 10 space heaters and leave the windows and doors wide open when it is -10F. Heck, someday it might even be a mobile server farm that is mining for Bitcoins that if given free range will suck up $100s of dollars of power a day. I am truly sorry to read this and, clearly, you have been taken advantage of. (hopefully, only a few times) I assure you, RV'ers, at least where I come from, are generally NOT like this. (IME, some are complete slobs, which is obvious) Others need to be 86'ed immediately. Live and learn. Get some night vision goggles, (infra red and fairly cheap) and patrol the campground daily and at night when its cold out. You'll spot the abusers right away. Chum lee
Chum lee 01/23/21 10:01pm Tech Issues
RE: Is this doable or am I overlooking something??

If you pay for a 20, 30, or 50 amp unmetered space, (electricity is included in the daily/weekly rate) IMO, you can use all the plugs available at the pedestal in YOUR campsite. You can add additional extension cords, if needed. If the campground owner/manager complains, have them move you to (or charge you for) a larger service/space. (which will, most likely, be more expensive) Do not attempt to argue with with people who do not understand how electricity works. Simply move to another campground. You have it backwards. If you are paying a metered rate, as long as all the plugs go thru the meter and it doesn't start popping breakers, use what you want...you will pay for what you use. For short term non-metered sites, they typically ask what your RV is (30 or 50 amp). Also, if you read the fine print on the rental agreement, it often mentions using additional outlets. So the owner would be very much within their rights to limit usage to a single outlet. You might get away with it but that doesn't make it right. Oh for God's sake, IMO, you've never owned a profitable business. So, . . . the "fine print" you've read covers ALL rental agreements? I don't think so. This is all just boilerplate for those too lazy/stupid to read/think for themselves.. Am I encouraging RV'ers to steal from RV Parks? NO. I am not. Just the reverse. In most cases we're talking ignorance and pennies here. Sure, . . . . you can be right. When I was about nine years old, (I'm 67 now) I remember reading a biography about Henry Ford. The author mentioned Henry's constant annoyance with his bean counter penny pinching bookkeeper/accountant who knew "the price of everything, but, the value of nothing." I've respected you to this point. I will no longer read your posts. Chum lee
Chum lee 01/20/21 08:09pm Tech Issues
RE: Is this doable or am I overlooking something??

We use our trailer a lot during the winter and in COLD weather. Normally we use the propane furnace but it gobbles propane. The trailer is connected to the 30 amp outlet on the park post BUT when we try to use an electric space heater to help, the post breaker often trips when the microwave or other appliance is used. Any thoughts about connecting a separate power cord from the park 15 amp pedestal outlet/breaker then routing it into the trailer to power the electric space heater??? had to ask . If you pay for a 20, 30, or 50 amp unmetered space, (electricity is included in the daily/weekly rate) IMO, you can use all the plugs available at the pedestal in YOUR campsite. You can add additional extension cords, if needed. If the campground owner/manager complains, have them move you to (or charge you for) a larger service/space. (which will, most likely, be more expensive) Do not attempt to argue with with people who do not understand how electricity works. Simply move to another campground. Chum leeTwo things: One, it is not YOUR campsite. It is the park's. They have an absolute right to set any rules and conditions they deem fit as long as they do not violate the law. If the park wants to limit pedestal usage to one connection, then one connection is all you are entitled to use. Second, it has nothing to do with understanding electricity. There may be many reasons to not allow additional connections. It may very well be an economic decision or it might be a wiring or capacity issue. Regardless, it is the park's decision to set policies. You do have the right solution, if you don't like the policies, move on. So . . . . where do we disagree? (a distinction without a difference) Do you HAVE something (anything really) valuable to say . . . . BECAUSE YOU CAN? This is why I HATE social media. Chum lee
Chum lee 01/18/21 04:02pm Tech Issues
RE: Is this doable or am I overlooking something??

We use our trailer a lot during the winter and in COLD weather. Normally we use the propane furnace but it gobbles propane. The trailer is connected to the 30 amp outlet on the park post BUT when we try to use an electric space heater to help, the post breaker often trips when the microwave or other appliance is used. Any thoughts about connecting a separate power cord from the park 15 amp pedestal outlet/breaker then routing it into the trailer to power the electric space heater??? had to ask You fail to mention the most critical information to answer your question. Is your campground space short term or long term (daily, weekly, monthly, other) AND is the pedestal you plug into metered or not? If it's metered/measured AND you pay long term rates, you will most likely be charged (separately) for every kilowatt of electricity you use. (regardless of the electrical capacity of your trailer) If it's not metered/measured, AND/OR you are paying short term rates, the electricity is most likely included in your short term campground fee. If you pay for a 20, 30, or 50 amp unmetered space, (electricity is included in the daily/weekly rate) IMO, you can use all the plugs available at the pedestal in YOUR campsite. You can add additional extension cords, if needed. If the campground owner/manager complains, have them move you to (or charge you for) a larger service/space. (which will, most likely, be more expensive) Do not attempt to argue with with people who do not understand how electricity works. Simply move to another campground. In my 30' Class A MH (30 amp service) I use an additional 25' 12 gauge 3 wire copper extension cord all the time. My 6 gallon gas/electric water heater has a separate 120 volt exterior plug JUST for that purpose. In cold climates I run the extension cord inside and plug it in to a 1500 watt space heater (water heater unplugged) all the time. I'm not interested in hearing from "others" who can't figure this out. Instead, . . . . just do what you're going to do. Hint: In an RV with a 30 amp service, you cannot use ALL the electrical consumers at the same time. You MUST manage your electrical consumption or you'll trip the main breaker at the pedestal or at your load center. (or you'll start a fire) Your choice! Chum lee
Chum lee 01/18/21 12:36pm Tech Issues
RE: Steering wheel vibration

I saw a video of a test drive on a 2015 F/W Bounder, and noticed the steering wheel had quite a bit of vibration traveling down a smooth highway. I have also heard that this is normal on the F53 frames for the class A gassers. Some even say that this vibration contributes to driver fatigue after about 4 to 5 hours on the road. So, my question is...Is this normal for the F53's and is it really an issue? Thanks....Skip NO! If properly weighted/adjusted/balanced/serviced/repaired your F53 will ride smooth as glass. (mine does) If you have issues,. . . . well, see above. Chum lee
Chum lee 12/24/20 04:27pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Refrigerator draw on LP mode

Chum Lee, The absorption fridge in my class C uses 5.7 KWH per day (measured with a kill-a-watt meter). That is with an ambient temperature of about 68 f (20 c). Running it from solar would require 1100 watts of panels and 4 SiO2 batteries (6 would be better). It would use less 120 volt power to run a residential fridge. Duty cycle is 2:3 (measured). Thanks for your post. I do appreciate what you do. I am a professional paid engineer. (and a **** good one at that) I deal with reality everyday. When I say/suggest my solar panels generate 140 watts, I'm not talking about the manufacturers published wattage, I'm talking about what they actually do, . . . sitting here, right now. I keep track. Currently, I have 3-240 watt Kyocera panels flat mounted on the roof, an MPPT controller and a 1000 watt PSW inverter. I'm not giving away all the details of what I do to make it work. Hire me if you want to know. Chum lee
Chum lee 12/05/20 06:20pm Tech Issues
RE: Refrigerator draw on LP mode

Chum Lee, The absorption fridge in my class C uses 5.7 KWH per day (measured with a kill-a-watt meter). That is with an ambient temperature of about 68 f (20 c). Running it from solar would require 1100 watts of panels and 4 SiO2 batteries (6 would be better). It would use less 120 volt power to run a residential fridge. Duty cycle is 2:3 (measured). Don, thanks for your post. Your are a little bit north of where I live. (South/West USA) The solar angles vary greatly. Of course, you need more solar panels in your location than I do. You haven't mentioned what you pay for propane/electricity so can't say as much as I would like to in this format. Chum lee
Chum lee 12/03/20 08:12pm Tech Issues
RE: Refrigerator draw on LP mode

I tried to run my absorption RV fridge on 120v this summer off inverter with 800+ watts of solar flat on the roof in good sunshine. It didn't work out. 325w on 120v was 30 some amps draw by the inverter. I only got over 30 amps from solar around lunch time. Most of the day and all night I was losing. Gottaluv propane mode for off-grid! Yeah, yeah, all you "experts" tell me something won't work, yet, I'm still doing it. The problem must be with me. Chum lee
Chum lee 12/03/20 07:11pm Tech Issues
RE: Refrigerator draw on LP mode

Yes, I can read. (thank you!) Yes, absorbtion refrigerators ARE very efficient, (you are incorrect) that's why they are used in RV's in the first place. Ooops, ya missed that one didn't you? Absorption fridges are quite a bit less energy efficient than compressor-based residential fridges (in terms of total energy use). The main reason they're used in RVs is that they use an energy source that is much more easily stored compactly: propane has a much higher energy density than electric batteries. A residential fridge will use somewhere in the rough vicinity of a third the power that an RV fridge will use if both are operated from AC power. DC-powered compressor fridges are usually pretty efficient...and not all that inexpensive. Their DC consumption is higher than an absorption fridge's DC power use in propane mode, of course, since it's providing the actual energy to cool rather than just powering the controls. I agree with you. Propane is much more energy dense than storage batteries. (at least right now) In an RV, you have to deal with what you have based on where you are. (energy wise) With a 2/3 way absorbtion fridge you have the flexibility of using gas or electric. IMO, you can talk about energy efficiency all you want. Depending on what you are doing (with your RV) if the most efficient/economical source of energy isn't currently available, IMO, it's kind of idiotic to speak as though it is. I boon dock off grid a lot. I like my solar panels. Are they perfect, . . . NO. Do they substantially reduce the need to run my generator (which produces electricity at about $.80/kwh) YES they do. Do I sometimes plug in to full service campgrounds, (electricity at $.15 to $.25 /kwh) Yes I do. Do I suggest how you should use your RV, . . . NO, I don't. Chum lee
Chum lee 12/03/20 06:07pm Tech Issues
RE: Refrigerator draw on LP mode

I don't understand why you are doing what you are doing. In the larger scheme of things, the electricity (12 volt) to run the board/valve is negligible. If you are going solar, why not consider running the fridge on 120 volts through a 120 volt inverter, solar panels, controller, and a battery bank, (probably 4-6 volt wet cells) eliminating the need to use propane at all? (at least for the fridge) IMO, you could do that with 3-140 watt panels (if you have room) and have plenty of solar power for most everything else too. You don't state what vehicle you have. (maybe the clue lies there) Chum lee You are mistaken there for sure. OPs RV fridge uses a very inefficient "absorption" system which relies on gravity to make things happen instead of a quicker compressor. This type of fridge requires considerable amount of heat input to cool a very tiny space.. The RV absorbsion fridges use a 325W or so 120V heating element.. Gonna take a huge solar panel array to make up for a 325W heating element.. So, instead of camping with a 100W-300W solar array, they would need to increase that to 600W, possibly 1,000W of solar and add quite a few batteries to their system.. Now, IF you were talking a 120V compressor fridge then it IS possible to work the solar angle with not much investment since fridge compressor uses 90W at 120V instead of a RV fridge heater of 325W.. BUT, we are not talking a compressor fridge here.. In this case, using propane is the better and wiser thing to do instead of carrying a thousand watts worth of panels. Keep in mind that with most modern RV fridges, the control board does need 12V and that IS what the OP was inquiring about. Yes, I can read. (thank you!) Yes, absorbtion refrigerators ARE very efficient, (you are incorrect) that's why they are used in RV's in the first place. Ooops, ya missed that one didn't you? I do understand how they work. When in electric mode, the 325 watt 120 volt heating element operates on a duty cycle, (just like the propane flame) far less than 100%, unless it's in start up cooling mode or you keep the refrigerator door open. You will need more than the standard battery (2 batteries) bank to insure reliability over the night and in times of cloud cover. For extended periods lacking solar, you can simply switch back to propane, if necessary. Please excuse me while I go get a cold beverage from my solar powered Dometic 2652 absorbtion fridge, which, . . . . doesn't work. Chum lee
Chum lee 12/03/20 11:58am Tech Issues
RE: Dump Station Observations

Just as much fun as watching a busy boat launch. :) Hard to find anything better than the goings-on at a busy summer boat ramp. DW & I love sitting on the side, watching the show. Too often it's better at the ramp than being on the lake. Lots of non-friendly-to-younger-kids atmospheric disturbances... The large public boat ramp on Shelter Island in San Diego is right across the street from our Yacht Club. On Memorial Day, 4th of July and Labor Day we would pack a small cooler and take a couple of folding chairs over to watch the carnage. Launching was fun but the main event was always late in the day when all of these folks who use their boats about twice a year returned to the ramp. The wait for an opening would often be an hour and a lot of folks just could not be bothered with waiting their turn. :B That's funny. Been there (in San Diego) and watched that many times. Then just for the holidays sake, ADD ALCOHOL, and . . . . lots of it. I try to be helpful when I can, but, you really have to know when the situation has gone too far. (hint: SDPD start to circle) Gotta go! Chum lee
Chum lee 12/01/20 08:58pm General RVing Issues
RE: Refrigerator draw on LP mode

I don't understand why you are doing what you are doing. In the larger scheme of things, the electricity (12 volt) to run the board/valve is negligible. If you are going solar, why not consider running the fridge on 120 volts through a 120 volt inverter, solar panels, controller, and a battery bank, (probably 4-6 volt wet cells) eliminating the need to use propane at all? (at least for the fridge) IMO, you could do that with 3-140 watt panels (if you have room) and have plenty of solar power for most everything else too. You don't state what vehicle you have. (maybe the clue lies there) Chum lee
Chum lee 12/01/20 08:30pm Tech Issues
RE: Toyota motor homes

IMO, you might want to take a look at a low miles Rialta Class B motorhome on a VW chassis in the 1995-2000 year range. Small engine, yes, 22' long but much better design than the Toyota and less than $30,000. Chum lee I'm a VW guy, and the thought of maintaining a 25 year old VR6 powered Eurovan chassis hauling a motorhome around makes my wallet shudder! Yep, me too! Over the years I've owned/driven/repaired/maintained multiple VW's(air cooled water cooled), Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes, etc. IMO, if you aren't handy (good mechanical skills), have lots of special tools (or good work arounds) and don't have a good source for OEM parts, (not the dealer) a place to work, buying an older German car/truck/motorhome WILL eat you alive. That said, I still like older German vehicles. I don't know why, but, I do. There is a HUGE support network out there. (once supported by people like me) On the other hand, if you are the standard retail buyer, it's not for you. A Rialta is an option. Probably a poor one for most people, BUT, it is an option. I'm with the shorter (19'-24') E350 Class C gang on this one but the OP specifically said they don't want that. Everybody gets to paint their own corner. Chum lee
Chum lee 11/27/20 04:23pm Class C Motorhomes
RE: How important is tire size to your selection?

Hi Chum lee, I'm not sure where you got the idea I was talking about a used coach? I'm looking for new. My question was is there a reason to specifically look at a coach with 22.5 tires over a coach having 19.5 tires? T he answer is NO... If you don't need the additional weight, then the tried and true 19'5's work just fine. The 22.5 tires/chassis may give a little better ride, but not to the point to make a selection on it? Have I gone off the rails on what you good folks have said? Thanks for the reply. In NO WAY am I suggesting that you buy a used coach. If you can afford a new one, that's fantastic. My goal in this post is that you buy the best vehicle for you. I am a (really good) sales person, (well. . . .now retired) and I'm trying to help you through the process. (of buying) Chum lee
Chum lee 11/24/20 07:32pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Very Frustrated

Yeah, . . I agree with the above. Chances are you could get this fixed with less than $25 in parts and a few minutes of your time. Hopefully the OP will post what this cost. Chum lee
Chum lee 11/24/20 04:18pm Tech Issues
RE: How important is tire size to your selection?

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is tire cost. There is a significant cost difference between 19.5"s and 22.5"s when the time comes (every 5 years). Yes, the 22.5"s carry more weight and typically will ride a bit better, but if the rig's GVWR can accommodate 19.5"s, I don't see a huge downside. I can also change a 19.5" flat on my own (although I certainly won't "enjoy" it); not sure I could do the same with 22"s. Yes. The OP seems to be oblivious to that. IMO, they are comparing the purchase price of one used vehicle to another. (not the long term operating costs of either) Surprise, surprise, surprise . . . . Chum lee
Chum lee 11/24/20 03:24pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: How important is tire size to your selection?

If I’m reading you right, the 22 is better and holds more weight. But the 19 has been around a long time and does fine if additional weight isn’t a factor? I think you have to go back to the old chevy P-30/32 chassis to get to units that had too much weight on the front tires/end. I remember some of the write ups the units were overloaded if there was a passenger in the front passenger seat. don't remember if that was a tire or chassis issue however. great engineering, put in a puny front end, put two chassis batteries about as far forward as possible, and stick some balloons in the springs to take the weight. bumpy Here's the issue for me. For example: My current Class A (a 1999 30' on a Ford F-53 chassis) has 19.5" tires/wheels and an 18,000 GVWR. It weighs under 16,000 lbs. fully loaded, fueled, and, watered, so, I have over 2,000 lbs. discretionary payload. That year, you could buy the same motorhome on a Chevy P-XX chassis that has a GVWR of 15,400 lbs. It had 16.5" wheels/tires. If I had my same motorhome on the Chevy chassis, I would be over maximum gross weight with NO discretionary payload. In my travels, I found the exact same motorhome as mine but on the Chevy chassis. IMO, it looked kind of silly with the smaller wheels/tires and the front suspension looked SEVERELY overloaded. (kind of like a big dog with two broken front legs) The current owner told me the front suspension/tires were always a problem as was the front axle overloading condition. Larger wheels also allow the use of larger brake rotors and higher ground clearance. (a good thing in a MH) Chum lee
Chum lee 11/23/20 06:45pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Toyota motor homes

IMO, you might want to take a look at a low miles Rialta Class B motorhome on a VW chassis in the 1995-2000 year range. Small engine, yes, 22' long but much better design than the Toyota and less than $30,000. Chum lee
Chum lee 11/23/20 12:43pm Class C Motorhomes
RE: How important is tire size to your selection?

Some motorhomes have 22.5 tires while others have 19.5. The style, meaning price point is the same. But as I said they have different size tires. How important is that in the big selection process? As others have hinted at, it depends on how important the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) and the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) are to you, as well as the purchase price. In general, similar vehicles with larger wheels/tires will cost more money and have higher weight ratings. See the specifications for each chassis to confirm BEFORE YOU BUY. Google "GVWR" and "GCWR" for exact definitions. IMO, these ratings are some of the more important criteria in your prepurchase selection process. Chum lee
Chum lee 11/23/20 10:31am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Honest RV Dealers - Are there any?

IMO, the more comfortable you are, and the more you appear to know about what you're looking for, and what you are willing to pay for it, (what it should sell for) the more honesty you'll likely get from whoever you deal with. IMO, it's really a game where both parties are trying to get the best deal, . . . . . for themselves. Salespeople will say ANYTHING until you call their bluff. As a buyer, as soon as you do that, the better. (for you) If you don't, . . . . well be prepared for what comes next! Chum lee
Chum lee 11/22/20 02:19pm General RVing Issues
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