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RE: Advice on inverter size

So besides price and having to run thicker wires, is there a negative to installing a 2000w inverter that will mostly supply 200w of power?No, and you don't even need thicker wire UNTIL you ask it for a thousand watts or so. It's very nice to make coffee or toast with batteries instead of having to fire up a generator. Yes, I know there are another million ways to make coffee. We aren't cavemen and not everything has to be cooked over a flame. I'm your boat hit the switch on the coffeemaker or microwave and use batteries and solar. ;)
Itinerant1 10/17/20 03:59pm Tech Issues
RE: Norcold N811 fridge-no power

This is what's behind that black plastic box.Arrows are to the fuses. https://i.imgur.com/3wa2gPPl.jpg That doesn't look like a circuit board for the Norcold N811 like OPs fridge model You're correct it's an 821, I had to look at my fridge for some reason I was thinking it was an 811. My apologize. :(
Itinerant1 10/06/20 10:26pm Tech Issues
RE: Norcold N811 fridge-no power

This is what's behind that black plastic box.Arrows are to the fuses. https://i.imgur.com/3wa2gPPl.jpg
Itinerant1 10/06/20 07:42pm Tech Issues
RE: Battle Born Lithium

Michael, Your link is not working--there is no url. There are a few truly 4 season RV's out there. For example, my 1987 Citation Supreme had a full heated basement. You may wish to look at "Thermo Cubes" which are a temperature controlled switch. https://www.briskheat.com/thermo-cube-temperature-controlled-outlet-adapter.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw2dD7BRASEiwAWCtCb0CwQQqPEBuS7w07TXl2p2BuCjoByD-h32AOfNpx7PRn1Fk3iYeoixoC43gQAvD_BwE (scroll down) Also look at the winter camping thread in the full timers forum. Thanks, PT... cubes an interesting idea... Cube won't help you for the attached heat pad you have linked it's 12v. Cube is 120v.
Itinerant1 10/01/20 09:51am Tech Issues
RE: Battle Born Lithium

Also, I wouldn't stick directly to batteries, if it had to be replaced in the future it might leave a mess behind. May not be much of an issue... them batteries are projected to have a 10 year lifespan, perhaps more... by that time, I expect to be in something different... and someone else will own them... I was thinking of the heat pad going bad.
Itinerant1 10/01/20 09:48am Tech Issues
RE: Battle Born Lithium

Also, I wouldn't stick directly to batteries, if it had to be replaced in the future it might leave a mess behind.
Itinerant1 10/01/20 08:04am Tech Issues
RE: Battle Born Lithium

As Pianotuna mentioned if you have a heated basement and you mount the batteries there you'll probably be ok. My lfp's are in the front compartment that I added foam insulation cut to fit everywhere between the frame structure on the walls, insulated as best as possible. I did tap into the heat duct run but it's closed right now. Right now outside temp is 24f, compartment temp is 48f and individual cell temps 45-46f. This is the normal I've seen at these temps over the past years. If you add the 12v heat pad make sure you have it tapped into a source that sees the consumption it's using or you'll get a false SOC.
Itinerant1 10/01/20 07:17am Tech Issues
RE: Dry Camping - Heat with Propane, or electrically w/Inverter?

As with others, we use a Big Buddy propane heater. I installed a quick connect to a fitting that runs a hose outside to a separate 30lb tank that it shares with the camp stove. Provides plenty of heat until we go to bed, at which point we fill a couple of hot water bottles to keep our toes toasty. In extreme cases when we know it will go below 0C, we set the RV furnace to 12C. Do not leave a Mr. Heater running while you sleep! As reference, I have 6 100A LIFePO4 batteries, with 1200w of solar. Typically I wake up to 70% charge, but we are heavy users - residential fridge, coffee makers, TV and media center, cell phone booster, etc. On a sunny day I’m charged by noon. On a day like today, which is overcast, I pulled out the generator as I was down to 60% this morning (all my percentages of remaining battery are based on available capacity, I set it to 80% to be conservative, or 480AH of usable capacity). I wouldn't even think about the generator with 60% in the morning but then I wouldn't think of the generator with 60% after dinner. 60% will still give 30% in the morning that's enough for the Mr Coffee pot and run the microwave for breakfast. Then let solar do what it can the rest of the day. 50-55% at 7pm is my pull out the generator and run it for an hour to dump 100ah (25%) in. If in the morning it's going to be just a poor solar day due to rain or heavy overcast then I'll run the generator for 2 hours dump a 200ah in and take what ever the solar will produce.
Itinerant1 09/25/20 03:32pm Tech Issues
RE: Dry Camping - Heat with Propane, or electrically w/Inverter?

If you had enough solar during the day you could possibly offset the propane use but a night use the 12v furnace. I have run my fireplace heater for stretches, turn the fridge over to electric from propane during the day but there is 1,280w solar on the roof.
Itinerant1 09/25/20 06:33am Tech Issues
RE: Cold weather options for LifePO4 batteries

The guy that built my batteries is noodling around with these Link They're heating pads for pipe elbows, they draw 7.5 watts each, he says I'd need 2x battery, which means 12 total or 90 watts total (6 batteries). He's hooking them up to a 1207 temperature controller. That's what I'm going to try and the controller for the blown air, maybe the pads are a better long term solution. I guess another option would be to stick the larger tank heating pad to a sheet of aluminum to span the footprint of all the batteries. We'll see! I entertained this Facon warming padunder the batteries. I would of stuck it to an aluminum sheet cut to fit the wooden structure containing the batteries to spread the heat as best as possible. Wired into the 12v fuse panel but having a toggle switch to give power when needed. The only issue I was worried about is it being sandwiched between the 1/2" rubber pad and the aluminum sheet, then having the batteries sitting on top. I don't know if it would matter? At 5.6a while running is so little of a draw, which is equal to the humidifier that is always running in the trailer. I wouldn't stick any of the heating pads directly on batteries incase it quit working so not to have a sticky mess on them.
Itinerant1 09/22/20 08:49am Tech Issues
RE: Cold weather options for LifePO4 batteries

Depending on your heat duct maybe you can tap into it. Mine ended right above the batteries in the front compartment. I'll block the vent in the bedroom where this section is located so the air is forced down the pipe. There are 2 other vents in the bedroom/ bathroom so no lose in heat. https://i.imgur.com/9y6DqKDl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/zI0n2yYl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/AQFKu26l.jpg https://i.imgur.com/q1CvY88l.jpg If we're running the furnace to heat the 5th wheel why not use some of it for the batteries. Just to give you an idea. ;)
Itinerant1 09/21/20 04:22pm Tech Issues
RE: Battle Born Lithium

Thank you Pianotuna it has been a set it and forget it system so far with only one little hickup last Nov after 3+ years. Easy fix. With so many folks now going 24v or 48v the bugs and homework is now out there fairly easy to find to see what is needed.
Itinerant1 09/21/20 09:25am Tech Issues
RE: Battle Born Lithium

"Enuf said". Yes, it's understandable that for the average rv'er that only weekend camps or does little boondocking and rather be tied to a power pole or run a generator the cost can be overwhelming. But it is coming down especially if you diy and build the batteries from cells. As a fulltime Itinerant that doesn't want to be a slave to a generator or rv parks with a lot of choices for boondocking. I took that rv park money that would of been paid out and put it into the system (batteries, inverter/ charger and solar) on the 5th wheel, which for "return on purchase" was 400 days of boondocking. Now with over 1,471 days boondocked out of 1,620 since install it has paid for itself and then some, plus a better rving experience out and away with nature. Quietly If I can help or show what some of the benefits may be with LFP from my experience living off of them in an everyday use, great. But one still has to think "what if". Being out and away with a shutdown of power and not knowing what to do next can be a rude experience and an eye opener. Do your homework first. Bottom line though use what best suits you for the conditions. There is no perfect way, just possibly more convenient. ;)
Itinerant1 09/21/20 08:54am Tech Issues
RE: Battle Born Lithium

I was under the impression that 1C was a "rule of thumb" with LI for current (amps). So a 300 amp-hour LI should laugh at a load of 130 amps continuous. iirc the Battle Born can do 3C for five minutes. It just depends on what the components are on the inside (or outside if it's a diy). That is why I said not all dropins are created equal. Some are constructed of many cylindrical cells, some pouches and others prismatic cells. Not that I could charge or discharge my cells that are rated for 3c (battery bank 1,500a) an 10c pulse but limited to 400a by the 2 400a continous duty selenoids on the charge/ discharge.
Itinerant1 09/20/20 09:29am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

No it didn't work. Take a screen shot and post as a picture. Or use a free pfd uploading host site, it will give options on how you want to post it in a thread.
Itinerant1 09/20/20 07:00am Tech Issues
RE: Battle Born Lithium

If you run your MW off inverter drawing 130 amps for 10 minutes from that 300AH Li 8D, is that "continuous" and so over its 100 amp rating, or is that short enough time to be "peak" at the much higher amp rating, so you would be ok? Relion doesn't show so probably would have to talk to someone to see if there an x amount of minutes. If you look at this data sheet for Lifeblue 300ah battery you would have no problem running that load. https://i.imgur.com/r9S45INl.jpg When buying dropins not all are created equal. Check out the small details to make sure it will fit your power wants.
Itinerant1 09/20/20 05:40am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

I remember reading a thread on another forum that the person added a on/ off switch on the dash so that the charging to the batteries could be turned off during the drive so not to hold the batteries at a high voltage once it was charged. I don't remember all the exact details.
Itinerant1 09/18/20 10:51am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

Well ... reading this clip below from the Azimuth Solar Products Si02 webpage https://azimuthsolarproducts.com/product/12v-108ah-ultra-long-life-battery/ under the "Additional Information" tab: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Battery Type SiO2 Composite Electrolyte Battery Nominal Capacity (25°C/77°F) 108 Ah (1296 Wh) @ 20 Hour Nominal Voltage 12V Max Charge Current 27A Max Charge Voltage 14.7V Internal Resistance (25°C/77°F) =< 6 m? Max Discharge Current (25°C/77°F) 800A(5S) Depth of Discharge 100% DOD Operational Temperature -40?C to 65?C (-40?F to 149?F) Self Discharge < 1.6% per Month Life Cycle 3400 Cycles at 40% DOD; 1500 Cycles at 80% DOD; 620 Cycles at 100% DOD Dimensions 17.2 x 33 x 22 cm (6.77 x 13 x 8.66") Weight 31.5 kg (69.4 lbs) Manufacturer Soneil International Ltd. Warranty 2 Years Workmanship --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It sure looks to me like their SiO2 batteries function in a far, far superior way as compared to good old regular lead acid (liquid or AGM) batteries. Crystals are not the same as liquid or liquid absorbed into mats. Note that the SiO2 batteries can even be discharged to "zero" about 620 times - which I would never think of doing even once, with any battery in my RV - no matter what the chemistry. (Excluding a capacitor battery of course!) BTW, that maximum charge current of 27A is perfect for us folks with only 130 alternators when underway, and for us drycamping RV folks with only stock converters and very small portable generators. The spec actually says discharged to 100% DOD (ie pull the full rated capacity out of the battery), not to zero (volts). As I pointed out this claim is not really substantially different from what deep cycle flooded battery manufacturers claim (see the graph I posted earlier with ~500 cycles to 100% DOD). I am not sure I believe either of these claims, just pointing out that the claims are about the same. Also note that Gell Cells have a sulfuric acid electrolyte solidified with SiO2 (silica), the difference is that these appear to have more SiO2, but the concept is the same. What spec do you think is far, far better? Note that I did not say zero with the word "volts" after it. I of course meant zero state of charge. SiO2 cycle life - as seen in the SOC graphs for it - sure seems quite superior to that of my current high-end deep cycle AGM batteries. Combined with SiO2 cold weather performance and their price - I'm wondering why continue with AGM when mine wear out, or mess with lithiums and their price for only part-time camping use. That sums it up pretty well, as a part time camper the dropin lfp cost doesn't offset the benefits for your needs. BTW, regarding drop-in size RV lithium batteries, take a look inside them to see all the inter-connections inside that gotta stay solid and corrosion-free year of year and vibration after vibration. The number of connections decreases reliability in any piece of electrical equipment or circuit. When are drop-in size lithium RV batteries going to have only three or six large cells? Most dropins are sealed batteries and you have to go out of your way to open one up which probably void any warranty it had. Connection, corrosion and vibrations could be a consideration but I think that's stretching it to worry about or why stop there, vehicles and rvs with electronic and computer components are in the same conditions and even more exposed. Nominal voltage of the cells are 3.2v which is why they are built 4 series combination for 12.8v nominal, 3 or 6 cells doesn't work out so well for voltage. Here's how at least one model of 100AH vehicle drop-in LiFePo4 lithium battery is constructed: https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/uploads/files/15019/12V%20100AH%20Internal%20Design%20PDF.pdf That sure looks like a lot of "little batteries" hooked up together with a lot of inter-connections that may/can eventually fail. I don't know if Battle Born LiFePo4 lithium batteries are also built of a bunch of small cells - but I bet they are. We're not talking about printed circuit board or integrated solid state electronics here - but a bunch of physical cylinders that have to be kept in place with secure connections between them year after year. Plus how many of those little individual lithium cells have to fail before the entire battery can no longer function properly? Four (4) larger 3.2V 100AH LiFePo4 cells in series would make a 12.8V 100AH LiFePo4 battery ... with a lot less inter-connections - very similar in construction and fully charged voltage to good old vibration proof AGM batteries. However, I'm betting that the technology of LiFePo4 battery cells is such that a large pancake type design - like the plates in lead acid based batteries - is difficult or impossible or unsafe to produce for use in a commercial drop-in vehicle sized lithium based battery. Hence drop-in LiFePo4 vehicle batteries must be made up of a bunch of "kludged together" small cells. So how many failures of said battery design have there been? Or is this one of those debates where you throw enough **** against a wall something is bound to stick? I don't know my 4s5p setup is pretty easy and straightforward even with all that scary electronics on them. https://i.imgur.com/HXONFBGl.jpg I wouldn't even call that pdf image you posted a "kludged together" but like 3tons said I'm not looking for the boogie man.
Itinerant1 09/15/20 12:42pm Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

Well ... reading this clip below from the Azimuth Solar Products Si02 webpage https://azimuthsolarproducts.com/product/12v-108ah-ultra-long-life-battery/ under the "Additional Information" tab: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Battery Type SiO2 Composite Electrolyte Battery Nominal Capacity (25°C/77°F) 108 Ah (1296 Wh) @ 20 Hour Nominal Voltage 12V Max Charge Current 27A Max Charge Voltage 14.7V Internal Resistance (25°C/77°F) =< 6 m? Max Discharge Current (25°C/77°F) 800A(5S) Depth of Discharge 100% DOD Operational Temperature -40?C to 65?C (-40?F to 149?F) Self Discharge < 1.6% per Month Life Cycle 3400 Cycles at 40% DOD; 1500 Cycles at 80% DOD; 620 Cycles at 100% DOD Dimensions 17.2 x 33 x 22 cm (6.77 x 13 x 8.66") Weight 31.5 kg (69.4 lbs) Manufacturer Soneil International Ltd. Warranty 2 Years Workmanship --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It sure looks to me like their SiO2 batteries function in a far, far superior way as compared to good old regular lead acid (liquid or AGM) batteries. Crystals are not the same as liquid or liquid absorbed into mats. Note that the SiO2 batteries can even be discharged to "zero" about 620 times - which I would never think of doing even once, with any battery in my RV - no matter what the chemistry. (Excluding a capacitor battery of course!) BTW, that maximum charge current of 27A is perfect for us folks with only 130 alternators when underway, and for us drycamping RV folks with only stock converters and very small portable generators. The spec actually says discharged to 100% DOD (ie pull the full rated capacity out of the battery), not to zero (volts). As I pointed out this claim is not really substantially different from what deep cycle flooded battery manufacturers claim (see the graph I posted earlier with ~500 cycles to 100% DOD). I am not sure I believe either of these claims, just pointing out that the claims are about the same. Also note that Gell Cells have a sulfuric acid electrolyte solidified with SiO2 (silica), the difference is that these appear to have more SiO2, but the concept is the same. What spec do you think is far, far better? Note that I did not say zero with the word "volts" after it. I of course meant zero state of charge. SiO2 cycle life - as seen in the SOC graphs for it - sure seems quite superior to that of my current high-end deep cycle AGM batteries. Combined with SiO2 cold weather performance and their price - I'm wondering why continue with AGM when mine wear out, or mess with lithiums and their price for only part-time camping use. That sums it up pretty well, as a part time camper the dropin lfp cost doesn't offset the benefits for your needs. BTW, regarding drop-in size RV lithium batteries, take a look inside them to see all the inter-connections inside that gotta stay solid and corrosion-free year of year and vibration after vibration. The number of connections decreases reliability in any piece of electrical equipment or circuit. When are drop-in size lithium RV batteries going to have only three or six large cells? Most dropins are sealed batteries and you have to go out of your way to open one up which probably void any warranty it had. Connection, corrosion and vibrations could be a consideration but I think that's stretching it to worry about or why stop there, vehicles and rvs with electronic and computer components are in the same conditions and even more exposed. Nominal voltage of the cells are 3.2v which is why they are built 4 series combination for 12.8v nominal, 3 or 6 cells doesn't work out so well for voltage.
Itinerant1 09/15/20 10:46am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Batteries

This is where it gets interesting because when I ask what is the cell voltages for said 40-90% or whatever soc % is claimed for longevity I never get an answer for that voltage range, besides why not use all the battery? I personally bought the lfp to be used in it's entire voltage range at any PSOC, its ease of recharging with solar and the light weight of the batteries, plus not having to use a generator or pedestal power at low SOC. Mine are still young at 4.5 years and 550+/- full cycles of fulltime use and never being turned off other than one time when the bms did it's job shutting down the batteries. This is with loads from 7a-175a everyday multiple times a day. 40+ days being the longest psoc (25%-75%) before solar caught up to fully charge the batteries. I have gone through my recordings from previous years and it still shows the same voltage readings at misc PSOC. I'm sure it has used some capacity but can't detect it when comparing the voltage to SOC capacity with or without loads from 25% to 100%. But then 14.2v (3.55vpc +/-) is the max my batteries (cells) have been charged to and float at 13.6v (3.4vpc +/-) always a load on the system.
Itinerant1 09/12/20 02:56pm Tech Issues
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