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RE: Calling on Solar Techies

Nothing better than a plan that went together. :C
Itinerant1 02/28/21 07:39pm Tech Issues
RE: Calling on Solar Techies

The solar charge controller started charging the Bats at 14.6 volts but since the batteries were already fully charged it dropped to 1.2 volts in a few minutes. If the batteries were full and the solar charger recognized them as full shouldn't it go to your float voltage setting instead of 1.2v?
Itinerant1 02/28/21 07:28pm Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Confusion

Just a little update with no recorded data of the microair on the AC unit and the LFP batteries. Did a short move and dumped the tanks yesterday. Trailer was closed up for 3 hours and the inside temp was feeling warm at 82f (1600 hours). It was nice not having to hookup the generator for the air conditioner for a short cool down cycle. Ran the 15k AC unit for over an hour while setting up and winding down after the move till the inside colled down to 72f off the batteries. The sun was low in the sky so not alot of help from solar, when first turning it on it was drawing 60a, just before turning it off it was drawing 75a and used 11% of the batteries. No issues at running it from just the batteries with little assist from solar and will like it for brief cooldowns, maybe lunch breaks during a move that some cool air can be produced. The microair upgrade on the AC unit well worth it. how big was your battery bank and solar again? would be nice to have the option of doing this in the 5th wheeh and since it needs more batteries anyways..... Steve 500ah, 1,280w solar hmm.. ok I am looking at going between 560 and 840AH in the 5th wheel, depending on if a buddy of mine wants to go in on some cells or not. I found a deal on 16 280Ah cells so 4 are going in the camper and 12 in the fith unless buddy wants 4 of them. but I only have 480 watts of solar up there... maybe its time for an upgrade. 4, 325w 24V pannels and a 60amp controler... would probabou need a larger wire from the combiner to the controler also.. now you have me thinking haha. Steve Living fulltime off the system now for almost 5 years if I were to do it over with what I know now and have experienced from it in daily conditions I would add 100ah more. The 1,280w of solar has been plenty during spring , summer, fall. In winter if I could tilt the panels that would make up any short comings in production and possibly eliminate the generator but I don't have a problem still living with full use of whatever I want in the trailer in a PSOC and if needed throw a little hold over charge with the Honda 2200. My system is actually wired for 2 more panels but I figured to try 1,280w first and see how that worked I never added 2 more panels (360W) because it's been working perfectly with no complaints. Now if I was more in "hot" areas with no way of moving and needed to run the air conditioner from solar than I would add the 360w. 1,640w solar would carry the daily loads nicely. ;)
Itinerant1 02/28/21 02:47pm Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Confusion

Just a little update with no recorded data of the microair on the AC unit and the LFP batteries. Did a short move and dumped the tanks yesterday. Trailer was closed up for 3 hours and the inside temp was feeling warm at 82f (1600 hours). It was nice not having to hookup the generator for the air conditioner for a short cool down cycle. Ran the 15k AC unit for over an hour while setting up and winding down after the move till the inside colled down to 72f off the batteries. The sun was low in the sky so not alot of help from solar, when first turning it on it was drawing 60a, just before turning it off it was drawing 75a and used 11% of the batteries. No issues at running it from just the batteries with little assist from solar and will like it for brief cooldowns, maybe lunch breaks during a move that some cool air can be produced. The microair upgrade on the AC unit well worth it. how big was your battery bank and solar again? would be nice to have the option of doing this in the 5th wheeh and since it needs more batteries anyways..... Steve 500ah, 1,280w solar
Itinerant1 02/27/21 10:09am Tech Issues
RE: LiFePO4 - SOK or Renogy.

If I was going to buy a dropin battery it would be Lifeblue. Choice of batteries with or without heating pads, bluetooth, with the ability to see individual cells (prismatic), various AH size of batteries, plus I've read enough good thing of folks using them for a couple years now.
Itinerant1 02/26/21 06:33pm Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Confusion

For brief usage of an hour or so I won't hesitate to run the air conditioner from the batteries but if it's going to be a long cool down and not able to move to a cooler location then the eu2200i will be used for the air conditioner and solar picking up load support from the hybrid inverter set at 15a incoming. This worked nicely last year at 6,500' elevation in 90f temps for the afternoon cool downs. I do turn the charger off on the inverter/ charger when doing this.
Itinerant1 02/25/21 11:30am Tech Issues
RE: Lithium Confusion

@pianotuna I finally installed the micro-air 364 on to my Carrier Air V 15k air conditioner. I'm in campground hooked up to 50a service, completed the 5 learning cycles. It was interesting to watch the me-arc display in the ac input screen, the air conditioner fan would run for a couple minutes then I could see 3-4a load coming in for 60 +/- seconds then quickly climb to roughly 18a then settle at 14a. Here are the test that I did. While still plugged into the pedestal I turned the load share down 15a, 10a, 5a and turning the air conditioner off for a couple minutes between each lowering and at no time did the ac unit stumble or did a red fault light show on the me-arc. Then I disconnected the the power from the pedestal and connected it to the eu2200i generator setting the load support to 15a and 10a, same results no red fault light on the me-arc and no "overload" or stumble on the generator. Also I'm in tree cover/ overcast so little to no solar was helping. I didn't try the ac unit on just batteries but I'll bet there shouldn't be a problem especially if solar is contributing. In a couple weeks when I'm back at boondocking I'll update those results. Maybe with the lfp batteries that's the difference that I'm not getting the fault lights on the hybrid inverter or stumble in the ac unit or generator. ;) Countinous from previous post, Tried the 15k A/C unit from just batteries today to see if the fault light would show on the Me-Arc display from the hybrid inverter (seeing if I would have the same issue that Pianotuna said he had). No fault light and no stumble in the A/C at anytime. 99% SOC (13.3v before turning the A/C on) From the me-arc display: Inverter AC output 118v/ 60hz Overcast/ pine forest (no visible sun) Solar 180.7 watts PV volts 35.7vdc Batteries 13.1vdc (while A/C running) 8a charging from solar after turning A/C off Initially turning it on the fan started and after 30 seconds the compressor started to spool up slowly, I could see the amps slowly climbing and max somewhere in the 190a range before settling down to 94a. So if I just use my minimum loads and the sun is shinning the solar panels will cover roughly 60-75a of the A/C load, balance from batteries would be 30ah +/- (6% SoC be depleted per hour) Good to know now that during a moving day and taking a break for lunch that the air conditioner can be used from the batteries with no issues and not worry about dragging the eu2200i out. I'll use my infrared laser thermometer to check connection and wires next time after some extended use. Just a little update with no recorded data of the microair on the AC unit and the LFP batteries. Did a short move and dumped the tanks yesterday. Trailer was closed up for 3 hours and the inside temp was feeling warm at 82f (1600 hours). It was nice not having to hookup the generator for the air conditioner for a short cool down cycle. Ran the 15k AC unit for over an hour while setting up and winding down after the move till the inside colled down to 72f off the batteries. The sun was low in the sky so not alot of help from solar, when first turning it on it was drawing 60a, just before turning it off it was drawing 75a and used 11% of the batteries. No issues at running it from just the batteries with little assist from solar and will like it for brief cooldowns, maybe lunch breaks during a move that some cool air can be produced. The microair upgrade on the AC unit well worth it.
Itinerant1 02/24/21 08:09am Tech Issues
RE: For BFL13 et al... FLA vs AGM vs Li vs heated Li

It would be 2 6v to equal a 12v or $180, it's 5x more. For your little use of power it probably is more economical for the upfront cost to stay using lead.
Itinerant1 02/23/21 05:57pm Tech Issues
RE: For BFL13 et al... FLA vs AGM vs Li vs heated Li

What about hot weather testing? Damage on LiFePo4 starts at 86 f, and they should not be charged when the temperature is 113 f. Lead acid batteries don't like prolong high temps either. Definitely shortens their life. True, however lead acid can be used at 140 f and charged at 120 f--that's a far cry from 86 to 113 f for LiFePo4. There is no question that higher temperatures reduce lifespan. However, does the BMS for the LiFePo4 shut down charging at 113 f? The bms will do whatever it's programed to do. Can't speak for every manufacturer out there but here is an example of mine. GBS Elite CPU/ EMS will disconnect the charge source or loads. **Over voltage (highest cell is over 3.8V after a 3 second delay) ** Under voltage (lowest cell is below 2.8V after a 30 second delay) ** Over current (current exceeds 10C for 10 seconds) **Over temperature (highest cell exceeds 150°F or 65°C) **Under temperature (lowest cell is below 32°F or 0°C, charging is not allowed) **Ground fault (There is a high voltage leakage greater than 2mA to the chassis pin) **Unmanaged cells (The programmed number of cells does not equal the number of cells read) I have been in temps from near 0f to 115f degrees. Reviewing my notes for the past years my highest cell temp has been 84f even when the front compartment was in the mid nineties. Cell temps rise and fall from morning to night and not drastically as one would think by reading comments in posts. From my experience I'll see cell temp rise when charging at 100a after a couple hours and when nearing full before switching to absorb stage, once this period of time completes the cell temps actually cool down some not hang at the high temps. There are somethings with lfp a person should be aware of and if proper homework is done and common sense is used a person should be able to enjoy the benifit of lfp, they are not faberge eggs some make them out to be. Quoting web pages isn't really homework unless they have their source posted to see where they're getting the info from. White page as best but then that takes time. Most folks like to be spoon feed and then take it a gospel. ;)
Itinerant1 02/23/21 07:43am Tech Issues
RE: For BFL13 et al... FLA vs AGM vs Li vs heated Li

I run the 2200i generator when the SOC will not be at 65% +/- by 6pm in the winter months. Between furnace, inverter (I don't turn it off), humidifier runs 24/7 and other misc loads, the nighly use will be 35 or so %, so when morning comes I can still make a couple 12c pots of coffee and run the microwave for 5 minutes. Which will put me in the 25% +/- SoC using the high draw items. I'll let solar do what ever it can during the day and decide how long to run the generator if needed to get to the nighttime % needed, which normally theres enough solar to get that point. 1 hour of gen run time equals 100ah or 20% charge to the batteries. 1 to 2 hours is the amount of time it will run if it's needed. Location and sun/ weather conditions are deciding factors obviously if generator is needed. Here is how it breaks down from previous years. 2017_ 6x for 13 hours total 2018_ 16x for 33 hours total 2019_ 20x for 34 hours total 2020_ 18x for 28.5 hours total 2021_ 3x for 4 hours total 112.5 hours total during this period time.
Itinerant1 02/22/21 02:18pm Tech Issues
RE: For BFL13 et al... FLA vs AGM vs Li vs heated Li

When I went fulltime rving back in 2016 and the majority of the time I know we would want to boondock as much as possible. I did enough homework that I know that we didn't want to be a slave to the batteries and that 800ah worth of lead would of been ball park for the wants/ buffer for our daily use and be extremely heavy. LFP wasn't as established with information as it is now but figured we would give it a try and see if the hype was as good as it was claimed to be. Our 500ah lfp battery pack weighing in at 143# for 6.4kWh or 5.12kWh usable. Now add in the rest of the system (solar panels, inverter/ charger, SCC, sub panel and all wiring) brought the total weight to 500# and as we all know weight is everything in a trailer and even more as a fulltimer with no stick and brick to run back to. I'm curious and this goes to BLF13 question to 3 tons. Here is a normal day during late spring, summer, early fall of our use of switching the fridge over to electric and other normal everyday items being used. https://i.imgur.com/ZAtLd7gl.png https://i.imgur.com/NhKhYUel.png If everything was the same system wise except for the batteries. 500ah lfp & 800 lead would you have the same life from the batteries. Right now I'm at 1,600+ cycles of 35-40% DODs and still using the microwave, coffee pot at 30% SOC (70% DOD) not getting back to full charge for 30 or so days at time during the winter months when solar can finally do it. As of today we have boondocked 1,609 of 1,773. Would you be able to do the exact same thing with a lead bank as far as shown in the daily recordings and still get back to full daily and get the longevity from them?
Itinerant1 02/22/21 11:28am Tech Issues
RE: For BFL13 et al... FLA vs AGM vs Li vs heated Li

Oh boy here we go again.
Itinerant1 02/22/21 10:21am Tech Issues
RE: LifePo4 Charge Performance

All LFPs are Lithium-ion, but not all Lithium-ions are LFP. Wiki article says of "Lithium-ions" that: " At temperatures from 0 to 5 °C charging is possible, but the charge current should be reduced" using the same 41F marker that Trillium does. The questions: 1. Does that apply to all Lithium-ions including LFPs? 2. Is a Trillium an LFP? Besides all that, worth noting that Lithium-ion development is still on-going with possible associated cost reductions in making them, which should lower their future retail prices if successful. Is a trillium an lfp? Yes and no No, because its a flower (lily family) Yes, because thats the pretty name Trojan marketing decided to call it and in thier data sheet it specifically says "Deep-Cycle Lithium Iron Phosphate" where as on the shell of the dropin it only say "Li-Ion". Marketing had to add deep cycle to the data because you wouldn't want mistakenly purchase the shallow cycling lfp battery. With Trojans they do not state what the lithium is doped with or what brand of cells are used, the secret in the plastic box.I did find this brief video. https://m.facebook.com/TrojanBatteryCompany/videos/trillium-high-pecision-cell-welding/2270245349713746/ A few posts ago I mentioned warranty claims, if you didn't notice in the data sheet this..."Data Logging, Total Lifetime Amp Hours, Recent Faults" you don't believe this is for the end user convenience and not for warranty issues.
Itinerant1 02/15/21 07:02am Tech Issues
RE: LifePo4 Charge Performance

"Trillium features a Trojan-specific cell...... It’s cobalt-free and nickel-free, and it features the industry’s safest chemistry" They say it is "Lithium-ion". If that is not LFP ??, then perhaps it acts differently. Not a clue. This explains the various types of Lithium-ion cells. It mentions the 41F figure in the part about charging, so it might apply to the LFP versions ????? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery "Li?ion batteries offer good charging performance at cooler temperatures and may even allow 'fast-charging' within a temperature range of 5 to 45 °C (41 to 113 °F). Charging should be performed within this temperature range. At temperatures from 0 to 5 °C charging is possible, but the charge current should be reduced" no lithium ion has many different forms and LiFePo4 is only one of them. Nickel cadium is a type of Li and so on, there are at least 6 different Li types out there in use. this is why it can get confusing. oh and dont take wikipedia as gospal, anyone can edit it, plus you dont know what format of Li the author was talking about. this is the most confusing part about Li, everyone refurs to it in the generic but each type has its own properties. for instance LifePo4 is the least likly to catch on fire during use LOL.. it is considered the safest. mind you I havent read much about tirillium yet so that might be even better. Steve Steve That's why I said awhile ago here that when talking about Lifepo4 in post and you don't want to type that out use lfp. But it seems the those 3 letters are too hard to type and li is still used. If you can get past that how serious is a person to truly learn.
Itinerant1 02/13/21 06:08am Tech Issues
RE: PROPANE LEAK??????

Unless the tanks were filled full before storage when cold they could of off gased some when they heated up in the sun. As others have said soapy water at all joints and look for bubbles to form.
Itinerant1 02/12/21 06:11pm Tech Issues
RE: LifePo4 Charge Performance

Be worth knowing for those interested if the heating blankets need PSW 120v like electric blankets do. Reminds me, itinerant1 explained how he uses a heater to warm up his batts before charging them in cold temps. So that means he has to not get the batts so low that they can't run the heater for long enough to warm the batts. You would need to work out the AH the heater would need next morning and be careful to not let the furnace run the batts down past that SOC overnight. Nothing very complicated, but you would be stuck if you forgot. Using the heater uses a litte more than the my mw (148a) as long as SOC 35-40% no problem for 30 minutes. You just must learn to know your system and having individual cell readings takes ALL guess work out of it.
Itinerant1 02/12/21 04:38pm Tech Issues
RE: LifePo4 Charge Performance

I believe Trojan is adding the cover your rearend with deny deny deny warranty claim options. With the price of lfp cells now and some homework a nice size battery bank can bebuilt at a very reasonable price equal to or less than lead batteries. Even this concern of cold temps is something that can easily be figured into the build/ placement of batteries and if that can't be overcome than lfp isn't a good fit for your wants and stay with tried and true batteries already on the market. I thought I had colder temp readings but I don't. Last Nov I had outside temps of 7f with compartment temps of low 40s and my cells dropped to 32f which stopped charging but had no problem still using them. I took my small heater I have and throw it in the compartment within 20 minutes all cells above 35f. I think having the ability to monitor cell temps is important because going off ambient temps is just that ambient temp. Here was just mild temps of 29f in the morning. https://i.imgur.com/0ADV6Yml.png
Itinerant1 02/11/21 06:34am Tech Issues
RE: LifePo4 Charge Performance

No clue. To me their specs are all over the place when looking at charging and they even say it's ok below freezing, granted really low but still goes against white papers I read. Low cut off at 8v, high cut off at 15.2v which seems lower than normal and high. Trojan must know something others don't.
Itinerant1 02/10/21 07:36pm Tech Issues
RE: LifePo4 Charge Performance

BLF13 I sent an email to Elite Power Solutions LLC where my Lifepo4 batteries come from and ask the specific question of charging at above freezing temps. Message: Hello, When the GBS cells get below 32f the bms protects the cells by not allowing the charge to happen but once the cells reach a temp above 32f and start to charge again is there a certain amount of current it should be reduced to and wait till above a certain temp. Example, I have 500ah (20 cells), I can charge at 125a with my Magnum inverter/ charger. Will I harm the cells charging at .25c while they are at a lower temp (say below 40f) or should I reduce the current some? Response: The system disables charging when any cell is below 32F. No amount of charging is safe below this temperature. 0.5C of lower is the recommended charge rate for longest life. At 125A / 500Ah you are at C/4 so you are well below this limit. Message: Just so I understand correctly in colder temps above freezing there is no harm in charging at the recommended 0.5c charge rate for longest life of the cells. Response: Correct Regards, Elite Power Solutions LLC _____________________________ So if I had the ability to charge at 250a there should be no harm on my 500ah battery bank and charging at what I can of 125a certainly won't hurt them.
Itinerant1 02/10/21 06:36pm Tech Issues
RE: LifePo4 Charge Performance

Hi...I'm attempting to choose the importance of the issues I am having with my new 12V 4 cell 80ah LIFEPO4 battery that I bought of Aliexpress and how to best continue while Im still ready to question the buy. It accompanied a 80a BMS with bluetooth capacity and Ive been utilizing a bluetooth application on my telephone to screen execution. I have completed 4 cycles on it up until this point and at present the best I have seen out of it is about 55ah. While charging, the voltage distinction between cells is inside 0.004V. As the voltage at cell 1 draws near to 3.4V, that phone begins to charge a lot quicker than the others and the overvoltage trips as cell 1 surpasses 3.6V while the other 3 cells are still scarcely enlisting 3.4V. During release, the voltage distinction is strong to inside 0.003V and as cell 4 methodologies 3.2V, it depletes a lot quicker than the rest and undervoltage trip is initiated as cell 4 arrives at 2.67 voltages while the other 3 cells are still around 3.1V. You should start your own thread. Maybe brand of cells, did you top balance plenty of other questions. You would get more useful help at diysolarforum.com it's orientated towards lfp build and more of the issues your quetioning about. Scoll down to Lifepo4 section. Here you might get speculation from folks that read about lfp but no hands experience.
Itinerant1 02/09/21 09:20am Tech Issues
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