| |
Subject |
Author |
Date Posted |
Forum
|
 |
RE: Tech Issue Leave Lithium Do Dads On Charger?
Replacing batteries in the sealed cases isn't that hard just requires a little patience.
I use my tablet (Galaxy S6) like a laptop so the battery takes a whopping. Probably this summer I'll have to replace the battery, $25 for battery and an hour of time, good as new.
When the S10 phone needs a new battery samething.
|
Itinerant1
|
10/07/22 06:02am |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: what size inverter.
For those who may dry-camp a lot, an inverter's parasitic/no-load current might also be worth considering in addition to output capacity. Some larger inverters (>1500w) can have parasitic/no-load current as high as 3-4a. 3-4a can go-through 72-96ah in 24 hours---it adds up.
For what it's worth, we chose an Aims 2000w high-frequency inverter to power the microwave and a/c in our truck camper primarily because of its good inrush capability and low parasitic (and reasonable price). Aim rates the parasitic at .9a. We typically experience around .6 - .7a.
I know the Magnum 3000w hybrid inverter/ charger has 2ah or 48ah in 24 hours of idle draw.
|
Itinerant1
|
10/05/22 10:52am |
Tech Issues
|
 |
RE: Lithium crossing the acceptance threshold…
I miss a good spirited debate about LFP. I hear they start airplanes on fire and phones burst into flames. ;)
Yep, I too can recall that the mythologies sure seemed to run rather deep!!
3 tons
I haven't seen BFL13 post in awhile. I hope all is well.
|
Itinerant1
|
09/14/22 07:56pm |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: Lithium crossing the acceptance threshold…
I miss a good spirited debate about LFP. I hear they start airplanes on fire and phones burst into flames. ;)
|
Itinerant1
|
09/14/22 06:24pm |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: no noise generators
I did not say these batteries don't lose capacity and eventually end up in the landfill or recycling center, everything does.
But once again you go off on a different chemistry within lithium.
As far as the deflection to EV in an rv thread... who would of thought that batteries will need replacing. Can't offard to play in the EV playground stay with tried and true gas engine vehicle.
|
Itinerant1
|
08/22/22 12:48pm |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: no noise generators
hello fellow campers.
with some parks up here now banning generators, some in designated areas and some outright, and the fact that getting a electric serviced site is getting harder and harder during peak season, has anyone tried these new power supplies
back up power
theres this company and another
other company
keep in mind prices are in CA dollars, they are probably 1/4 the price in the US.
Just wondering if this is a possible solution to running a generator, it may not run the A/C very long but up here we can get by without that and the microwave, and run the fridge on propane, just need the lights and electronics pumps, fans and maybe some music for a 3 day weekend. perhaps the tv for a movie on a rainy day.
if you have one let me know how it works for you.
These are nothing more than an expensive battery with inverter in a box.
Calling them a "generator" is laughable at best as when you discharge them you must eventually recharge them. Each time you discharge/recharge the batteries lose capacity.
Storing them can also be problematic at best, batteries of any type must be stored properly, Lithium batteries are no exception to this. Failing to store properly will result in a unusable battery in short order.
BATTERY UNIVERSITY says this..
Battery SoC is reflected in OCV. Lithium manganese oxide reads 3.82V at 40% SoC (25°C), and about 3.70V at 30% (shipping requirement). Temperature and previous charge and discharge activities affect the reading. Allow the battery to rest for 90 minutes before taking the reading.
Li-ion cannot dip below 2V/cell for any length of time. Copper shunts form inside the cells that can lead to elevated self-discharge or a partial electrical short. (See BU-802b: Elevated Self-discharge) If recharged, the cells might become unstable, causing excessive heat or showing other anomalies. Li-ion batteries that have been under stress may function normally but are more sensitive to mechanical abuse. Liability for incorrect handling should go to the user and not the battery manufacturer."
Tektronix has a good guide on Lithium battery maintenance and storage.. HERE
"Lithium-Ion Battery Maintenance Guidelines
Lithium-Ion rechargeable batteries require routine maintenance and care in their use and handling. Read and follow the guidelines in this document to safely use Lithium-Ion batteries and achieve the maximum battery life span.
Overview
Do not leave batteries unused for extended periods of time, either in the product or in storage. When a battery has been unused for 6 months, check the charge status and charge or dispose of the battery as appropriate.
The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first. One charge cycle is a period of use from fully charged, to fully discharged, and fully recharged again. Use a two to three year life expectancy for batteries that do not run through complete
charge cycles.
Rechargeable Lithium-Ion batteries have a limited life and will gradually lose their capacity to hold a charge. This loss of capacity (aging) is irreversible. As the battery loses capacity, the length of time it will power the product (run time) decreases.
Lithium-Ion batteries continue to slowly discharge (self-discharge) when not in use or while in storage. Routinely check the battery’s charge status. The product user manual typically includes information on how to check battery status, as well as battery charging instructions"
To put this a bit more into perspective, batteries of any type whether being used or being stored lose capacity and life.
Contrast tho generators which as long as you check and change the oil at recommended intervals and you do not leave gas sit in the carb while stored can be used and stored for many, many yrs without loss in capacity..
Come back in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, 15 yrs, 20 yrs and give a report on how well your purchase of that "power station" or "noiseless generator" has gone..
So far, my noisy generators have given me 20+ yrs of service and I have even added a 30+ yr old gen to my stock which sat abused with water in the fuel tank for so long that the tank was loaded with rust right up to the top of the tank.. Cleaned the rust out of tank and carb added some fresh gas and engine came to life after two pulls..
Would love to see a 30yr old Lithium based power pack with inverter come back to life with full capacity after being stored for 30yrs with no periodic charges..
If your going to quote and use it like the gospel try staying in the same chemistry. Li-Colbate is not LiFePO4 which is used in these battery/ inverter devices and what most are using in the rvs.
Next will be Lifepo4 isn't safe because Li starts fire on planes.
|
Itinerant1
|
08/22/22 11:42am |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: Powering AC unit built into travel trailer with solar?
No matter what "batteries" you use, they all need to be recharged as soon as possible, Lithiums are not immune to this and are not an exception if you want to get the most life for the money you spend.
I thought this was there main claim to fame???
Lithiums do a much better job than FLA, AGM or gel, but they are not 100% immune to some degradation if you continually allow them to sit in a partial discharge.
Some of the claim to fame is the not to charge to 100% in order to store them. Reality is you don't really control the charge, the BMS does that. Allow them to store at too low of a charge and you take a chance the BMS will disconnect (BMS has low voltage disconnect built in and most BMS once that is tripped are not able to be reconnected) and now you have an expensive door stop. The Lithium battery pack will have a bit more capacity built in, often about 10% more capacity, but you typically cannot use that capacity due to BMS. The BMS stops you from charging or discharging more than 90% of the battery, good quality BMS will prevent you from using more that extra capacity. Basically that extra capacity is reserved for the BMS and also not allow battery to fall out of normal and stable state of charge range.
I have had some small Lithium batteries swell after being stored in a partial discharge state (inactive for 6 months or more and were not charged until the BMS stopped charging before storing).
The bms is the safe guard for the battery or more likely the cells within the battery.
A properly setup system has the charging device set to stop charging before the bms needs to interact. That's like saying my emergency brakes stop my truck no need to use the brake pedal while operating the truck.
LVD is also part of the bms which does protect the cells/ battery what quality battery manufacturer doesn't allow charging to wake the bms up when it meets their parameters?
Why buy a lfp battery if you're just going to store it, stay with dead lead and buy another cheap replacement when you kill it.
Small lithium batteries are not large lfp batteries, while your experience in lithium maybe useful my 6.5+ years seems to differ slightly using lfp setup fulltime everyday.
|
Itinerant1
|
08/19/22 03:50pm |
Travel Trailers
|
|
RE: Easy Start By Micro Air
Yep, one’s own instincts often tend to default to a required 1 to 1 harvest to demand scenario, but in a broader real world context this is not necessarily the case…
What also needs to be considered is compressor duty cycle, concurrent harvesting, and the restoration of full amperage to battery charging that occurs in between each compressor ON-OFF cycle, and the ‘available’ battery Depth of Discharge (DOD) till start of the next day’s harvest cycle…Where battery storage is tight (as in a truck camper - resolved by under dinette mounting), Lithium is what makes this become viable possibility,,,
FWIW, total air conditioner run time (cycling - ending at 1915) was about 6.75 hrs…
Hope this adds some enlightenment :)
3 tons
Now add more solar and the #s really start to look good. Less from the batteries and a little charge on off cycles. ;)
|
Itinerant1
|
07/24/22 11:03am |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: Easy Start By Micro Air
From other postings I've seen where people have tested running their A/C off batteries and they are reporting that you can get about 1 hr of run time for each 200aH of battery.
I wonder how long it will be before RV manufacturers start offering an option of placing Lithium-Ion (or sodium) batteries in the generator bay, installing an inverter at least 2800W, wiring all the 110v outlets and appliances in the RV thru the inverter, and putting Soft Starts in the A/C. And with Lithium or sodium batteries, installing the second high-output alternator in the chassis in addition to as much solar as then can fit on the roof.
While recently researching for my next RV I found one that I liked which I thought could be built this way quite easily to match my camping style. (I'm not looking to run the A/C on batteries other then when I'm traveling, hence the second alternator. Plus future battery technology may improve well beyond where it is now.) I figured I could replace the generator with about 1200aH of Lithium batteries (pricey, but doable). When I contacted the manufacturer with my requested changes, they flatly refused - said the generator couldn't be eliminated and they'd never wire the A/C and microwave thru the inverter. Reluctantly crossed them off my list and moved to other manufacturers.
If you want to be able to boondock all year round and run at least one AC you will need that large battery bank 1200ah in lithium would cost you a bundle. Throw in 1500 watts of solar on the roof and some nice Victron electronics and you into a 25k+ solar system not counting labor. Now if I had a little piece of land somewhere where I could park when not traveling maybe the price would be worth it.
I'll respectfully disagree. 500ah & 1,280w solar, I boondock fulltime with over 1,000 days in a consecutive stretch. I don't scimp on power, live like I'm pluged into the grid. ;)
|
Itinerant1
|
07/20/22 07:37pm |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: Gray Tank Smell (Seriously annoying)
Excellent that you found the culprit. ;)
|
Itinerant1
|
07/17/22 11:45am |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: Gray Tank Smell (Seriously annoying)
Do I understand there are no odors unless the A/C is running? If that is the case, I don't see any connection with the grey water. I would check the A/C. Maybe a dead critter in the unit. As mentioned the A/C does not pull any outside air so the offending item would be inside in the A/C or ductwork if there is any.
The AC does not pull outside air but it does circulate interior air if the break or smell is present in the roof line or attic area it will drift into the AC duct system which is not 100% air tight.
Once the smell enters the AC duct the AC system blows the foul air into the interior of the RV where it becomes a noticable bad smell.
Why I mentioned to check vent pipes at roof line if everything else isn't curing the issue, can't hurt to check.
|
Itinerant1
|
07/15/22 09:44am |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: Gray Tank Smell (Seriously annoying)
If your black or grey roof vent pipes coming from the holding tanks aren't tall enough to protrude through the roof into the vent covers you might be getting some smell in between the roof and ceiling.
I had a stink occasionally and couldn't figure it out like you till I finally pulled the vents covers off, grey pipe was 1" shorter than the roof line. I added an adapter on problem solved.
|
Itinerant1
|
07/14/22 10:43am |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: More on LFP Charging
Actually 7.9 kwh is one of the better days. Longer daylight hours and sun shining the more power I can purposely use (waste) in the way of the air conditioner. As you know being a veteran to solar... late spring, summer, early fall really isn’t a challenge for off grid living with solar/ batteries. Winter with shorter days, low sun arc and flat mounted panels can be a little more challenging but nothing that a generator can't handle with a 1 or 2 hours run for a hold over charge (20-40% SOC boost) using the lfp batteries in a partial SOC for long periods. 175-225ah is a normal daily use anything over that is air conditioner running, fridge turned over to electric instead of propane, just using any excess power that solar is producing because it's there. :)
|
Itinerant1
|
07/11/22 12:54pm |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: More on LFP Charging
I believe because the industry is still stuck in dead lead thinking and why not the vast majority of rvs still believe in killing the lead batteries and go buy cheap replacements. Nothing wrong with that because it fits their needs and wallet.
I think once you enter into larger battery bank and want to power high draw items you can't beat a programmable inverter/ charger. Yes it cost a little more but the user has entered into a higher cost battery that could be a truely set it and forget system if that fits their wants. Some folks like to tinker with the system.
With my system which has been powered on for 2,279 days (inverter/ charger never been turned off), 2,095 days have been boondocking. The 184 days that were hooked up to a power pole I would turn off the 120v charger but leaver the loadshare set to 15a, 30a or 50a depending on incoming ac power and let the 12v loads be powered from the batteries, solar would top off batteries and float at 13.6v while the 120v is passing through to power the rig. Doing it this way if the rv park did lose power I still have full batteries and I go on enjoying the convenience of everything in the trailer uninterrupted. Which has happened a couple times, once the rv park owners came around and apologized for the power lose but we didn't even know it till I looked at the displays.
Nice having choices.
|
Itinerant1
|
07/11/22 09:24am |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: More on LFP Charging
Itinerant1,
How do you manage on less than 2304 watt-hours per day? Are the panels actively running the RV during daylight hours? Do you know the total electrical use per day?
I don't know now what you mean by how do I manage on less than 2304wh, 175ah +/- daily? Batteries
Yes, solar is always running loads during the day and the balance of power charging the batteries if needed.
Do you mean electrical use per daylike this?
https://i.imgur.com/yMuljaJl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JVYRcoVl.jpg
|
Itinerant1
|
07/09/22 01:20pm |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: More on LFP Charging
Pick your posion for setting and move on with other daily activities, let it do its thing quietly in the back ground. Just have to have confidence in the equipment...if you don't you might need better equipment. ;)
|
Itinerant1
|
07/09/22 10:34am |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: More on LFP Charging
Years ago I use to use 14.2v absorb and 13.6v "float". For the past 3 or so years just been using 14.1v absorb and 13.6v "float". 14.1v is the lowest I'll go fo the reason my SOC will reset the capacity to 100% whenever the pack voltage reaches 3.49 to 3.52 V per cell on average.
Packs performing just fine. Depending on batteries/ cells and what bms it has might dictate what voltage is needed for balancing of cells and resetting soc capacity.
If someone wants to use full capacity of the batteries or just partial it won't make a difference as long as the cells stay in some sort of balance with a periodic recharge.
Nothing better than individual choices, one size doesn't fit all.
|
Itinerant1
|
07/04/22 09:05pm |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: More on LFP Charging
I have a 100a pass-thru charger and a PD 9245 - the highest combined amperage I ever witnessed is 82a (usually a bit lower as it tapers down), this feeding into 400a/h of LFP (cylindrical cells = air gaps), mfg’s ‘C’ rate is 1.0, but I can’t even get close…With just the lowly PD, I can’t hardly imagine exceeding most other mfg’s C rate…
3 tonsWould seem like a charger issue or the wiring is inadequate more than a battery limitation.
I agree.
I know if I had to combine my solar and Magnum charger it would max around 175a charging (with good sun) and have seen 165a when running the generator one time to see what it would do combined. Makes for some quick charging. ;)
As far as charging I can feed the batteries 100a (.2c) my with the eu2200i till 98% SOC when absorbs kicks in for 6 minutes and tapers to 99% SOC.
I mentioned this in previous post that I could just about put a stop watch to the minute for how long it takes to use the generator to charge batteries to full if need be.
|
Itinerant1
|
06/29/22 11:17am |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: More on LFP Charging
Their info reads the same as others. It looks like they need 14.4 for 3hours to balance the cells with what ever their bms is inside.
|
Itinerant1
|
06/28/22 11:48am |
Tech Issues
|
|
RE: Converter voltage drop
My personal choice is a programmable inverter/ charger but my use is much different than most.
If I was downsizing and was going to stay with a converter than it would be one that Time2roll suggested in the 3rd post of this thread. I do have one of those converters hanging in the front compartment just disconnected from the system.
|
Itinerant1
|
06/24/22 07:16pm |
Tech Issues
|
|
