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RE: Am I being greedy?

I spent my career for many decades as a new car dealer. What you are describing is ridiculous unless it is a part of the written agreement involving the transaction. If not, and you have already taken delivery of the new unit and given the dealer the trade...you are done. You owe him nothing after the fact! He is the dealer and the expert here. It is his responsibility to inspect the trade and to evaluate it before the transaction is consummated. It was not something that was hidden and was in clear sight. If your responsibility was listed in the buyers agreement originally, it is a whole different story and both parties made a clear mistake. The time for an agreement is before the papers are signed.
JALLEN4 03/09/20 06:09am General RVing Issues
RE: dealer advertising

Of course it is a good starting point. That is exactly why dealers put the information in the ad. While paying cash for the RV is a wonderful thing, most people will never own one if that is the way they have to buy it. It is surprising for all vehicle sales how many people show up to look at them without a clue as to what the payments will be. Having a good idea of what you can afford under what terms before you arrive at the dealership will help you stay on point and keep from falling in love with more RV than you can really afford and making a huge mistake. The key is to know your limitations, do your research, and setting your parameters before starting to look. I have watched far too many people get carried away and decide it is only another $100 a month more to get exactly what we want. Often that $100 is the difference between practicality and falling into the deep end. Decide what you can comfortably spend in cash and payments before you go and stick to it.
JALLEN4 02/15/20 05:23am Class A Motorhomes
RE: How much do dealers pay for the RV's they sell

As a retired new car dealer, I can assure you that it would be extremely rare for some part-time dealership gopher to actually have a clue as to what the dealer is paying for product. He might well think he does. I can assure you very few people working for me did and none of them were part-time lot boys.
JALLEN4 02/02/20 06:02am General RVing Issues
RE: Camping World Get Best Price button

I think it would be rather naive to think any dealer is going to post on their website the very best price they are going to sell any unit. Factually, they most times do not really know themselves. I can't tell you how many times I have said "This is the lowest price I am going to take"...not one penny less...and meant it. Then, only to be made a real offer by a real customer with real money.
JALLEN4 01/23/20 05:29am Camping World RV Sales
RE: Truck warranty

The dealer making the warranty repair is subject to audit on his warranty repairs and can be charged back for his submission. If you are taking a new truck to a dealer other than the selling dealer immediately after purchase, it is not hard to understand that dealer's hesitancy. If the manufacturer calls for the replaced part and determines in their opinion it is not warranty, the dealer will eat the part and the labor. You did not buy it there and that dealer would be prudent to make sure they are going to get paid.
JALLEN4 01/05/20 04:45am Tow Vehicles
RE: Sticker shock

I gladly take my F150 to the local Ford dealership. They properly service my truck and get it back to me when promised. They are not the cheapest here in town, but, I had problems with a couple of other shops getting the work done. One other shop had one of my vehicles for 3 weeks because they kept doing other jobs while my truck sat on the lift. The Ford shop gets my work done and the vehicle back to me asap. They beat all of the other tires shops when I needed new tires. Great service. Stick with that dealer then. They have obviously earned your business. All the dealers I've dealt with the past 30 years sucked big time and would never use them for any repair other than warranty work You truly need to think about what you are saying. If, over a 30 year period of time, you have never received proper treatment from a dealer's shop...you might want to reconsider where the problem actually is. Perhaps he actually checks the work and is in touch with reality. My last dealer visit resulted in a damaged hub cap and a brake hose pulled tight across the coil spring. I have had bad and dangerous worked performed by dealers and other shops since I started driving many decades ago. But go ahead and always blame the victim. Nobody is "blaming the victim" but that is a good attempt to shift the conversation. It is just ridiculous to state that over a 30 year period of time no dealer ever did anything other than poor work. There are millions of satisfactory reviews of shops on the internet including on this forum. Sounds good though to those who want to think everyone is taking advantage of them always!
JALLEN4 11/11/19 05:13am Tow Vehicles
RE: Sticker shock

I gladly take my F150 to the local Ford dealership. They properly service my truck and get it back to me when promised. They are not the cheapest here in town, but, I had problems with a couple of other shops getting the work done. One other shop had one of my vehicles for 3 weeks because they kept doing other jobs while my truck sat on the lift. The Ford shop gets my work done and the vehicle back to me asap. They beat all of the other tires shops when I needed new tires. Great service. Stick with that dealer then. They have obviously earned your business. All the dealers I've dealt with the past 30 years sucked big time and would never use them for any repair other than warranty work You truly need to think about what you are saying. If, over a 30 year period of time, you have never received proper treatment from a dealer's shop...you might want to reconsider where the problem actually is.
JALLEN4 11/10/19 05:50am Tow Vehicles
RE: Sticker shock

Here is an idea. Why don't you guys who obviously know everything about how these service shops should be run, start your own. You will obviously be rich nearly overnight and us dummies will never have to wait to make an appointment again while we enjoy your cheap prices!:R
JALLEN4 11/09/19 05:46am Tow Vehicles
RE: Diminshed Value Claims

The reality is that those vehicles repaired improperly and presenting a potential structural risk can be discovered by a competent automotive inspector. Please explain how a consumer is supposed to inspect a vehicle after it has been repaired? Where are these competent automotive inspectors? Determining if a vehicle has been in a accident is easy. Determining if it has been repaired right is not easy and an incorrect repair can easily be hidden by bondo and paint. I was never talking about a cosmetic repair. I clearly mentioned a unibody with a replacement quarter or rear end when talking about diminished value.. I assume that you have not viewed "my profile" when you decided to call me uneducated and inexperienced when it comes to vehicles. I have now read your profile. I congratulate you on being a general contractor and having a hobby of working on old things. If a question comes up about a commercial building we will know where to go. On the other hand, I am a retired new car dealer who owned numerous body shops. I dealt with these questions for a living daily for decades. The consumer has a number of options when looking for an inspection of a potential used vehicle. There are usually dealers, independent garages, body shops, and other professionals in any community that offer the service. Yes, for the amateur, bondo and paint will cover up a lot of things. People who actually are involved in these things see the bondo and know then what to start looking for. As a person who has been involved in the sale of tens of thousands of used vehicles, not having a potential purchase inspected by an independent professional is really dumb!
JALLEN4 09/25/19 05:44am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Diminshed Value Claims

JALLEN4: I'll just keep it simple.....how is a buyer supposed to inspect a "repaired" vehicle and tell if the repair was done properly or if it was just done to look pretty? How can any inspection done by a potential buyer tell if the repair is as strong as it is supposed to be as originally designed? I doubt if you can tell me how someone can inspect a vehicle after it has been repaired so this is exactly why this has to do with diminished value of an accident repair. With no way to properly inspect a vehicle, a buyer has no idea whether the repair was done by the best mechanic, or the worst mechanic, that was fired the next day. For that reason why would someone pay the same amount of money to buy a "repaired" vehicle when given the chance to buy the identical vehicle that has had no accidents? Thank you for proving my point. The CarFax reports have opened a can of worms where they have made the vehicles with previous damage suffer unnecessary loss of value. The inexperienced and theoretical consumers, such as yourself, automatically assume the worst case scenario hoping to get an undeserved windfall of either buying the used vehicle at a greatly lower value or diminished value in their pocket in case of accident. By far the majority of reported accidents involve cosmetic only damage. Very few involve actual structural damage that would compromise the safety of the repaired vehicle if not repaired properly. This number of vehicles of potential concern would be reduced further by the ones that are actually repaired by competent shops. By your uneducated scenario, damaged and repaired unibody vehicles should be summarily destroyed...not sold to an unsuspecting consumer at a reduced price. There is no reduced price that would justify putting lives at danger. The reality is that those vehicles repaired improperly and presenting a potential structural risk can be discovered by a competent automotive inspector. While it is true that they are not tested for structural rigidity after repair, neither was the vehicle tested after the original manufacturing. The engineering models are tested in the design phase and we all hope running changes in the manufacturing process do not compromise the original design. But, at the end of the day, folks are entitled to believe whatever ridiculous article they read that was designed to sell views. Negative thoughts always sell better than reality and people just absolutely love the idea that some shining knight will put newly found money in their pocket because they factually know everybody is out to get them to begin with.
JALLEN4 09/24/19 06:25am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Diminshed Value Claims

Actually diminished value came about primarily because the auto industry switched from vehicles with frames to unibody construction. With a vehicle with a frame it was easy to tell if a vehicle was repaired properly. With a unibody type vehicle they will cut off entire sections of the body and ATTEMPT to duplicate the same rigidity that the factory obtained with their robots and in a carefully controlled environment. When a unibody type vehicle is sent to a repair shop, that is working with the insurance company and has time limits and a budget, there is almost a 100% probability that corners will be cut and once put together and covered with body filler and paint, you cannot tell if ALL of the welds were done and if they meet the same(they don't) quality as those that came from the factory. I am sure there are some here that work at body shops that will swear that their repair is just as good as what came from the factory. That is a myth put out by the insurance companies to convince owners that their vehicle was properly repaired. There is not one single body shop anywhere in this country that can cut off a section of a unibody vehicle and install a new section that is as good as what came from the factory, with the amount paid by the insurance company. There are too many points of contact that cannot be properly attached/welded by a human after the vehicle has left the factory. They can look pretty after the repair but the damaged vehicle will never be the same. That has exactly what to do with diminished value? If we are going to accept your theory as accurate, which it is not, then at a certain level of damage every unibody vehicle should be destroyed and we start over. While this would be very expensive for insurance costs, it would at least protect the consumer from a potential death event when the car is wrecked the second time... by your theory. The current process of arbitrarily awarding the owner 10% of value would seem to be simply a windfall event for the greedy owner and attorney. I owned body shops as part of new car dealerships for decades. In the process, I witnessed far more repairs of modern vehicles than most people will ever see. While I absolutely never tested a repaired unibody vehicle to determine its post repair integrity, I also never saw one come back because of the vehicle "strength". To assume that if a body shop repaired it "corners were cut" is to disparage a number of good people. It would be ludicrous to assume everyone but you has no pride of workmanship. As a warranty provider for a number of manufacturers, we sure did get the opportunity to correct many mistakes created by your revered "robots and controlled environment"!
JALLEN4 09/23/19 05:45am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Diminshed Value Claims

Diminished value is a joke. So if I had an accident that damaged a front axle on a vehicle or a fender. And it was replaced with new? How is the vehicle worth any less? The vehicle is repaired to how it was before the accident. So how is it now worth less? The only way it would be worth less is if the repair wasn’t done properly and corners were cut. I don't think you understand the meaning of diminished value. Try this, you go looking for a vehicle. You find two of the exact same year, make, model, color, miles, etc., etc. They both drive and were maintained in same shape. Now, you pull a vehicle history report and notice that one has an adverse notation of "Accident - Front End - Major" showing. Are you saying you would not value the one without the accident higher and the one with the accident lower? Take a car/truck into a dealer to trade it in that has had damage that was reported and on a car facts and see what happens. You will not be offered as much as a car with a clean car fax. That's what I have been saying. Car fax was originally conceived to give a potential buyer a heads up that the car was repaired and to have it inspected before purchase. It is not intended to devalue a vehicle. It is up to the customer to decide if a vehicle is worth any less after it is inspected. Actually, CarFax was conceived purely to make money. They invented their own market and ultimately exploited the consumer. They have reported damage to vehicles and driven the value of the consumer's cars down drastically with the idea that if there was ever damage it must be worth thousands less. There were laws in place to protect the consumer from flood damaged vehicles, salvage titles, bent frames, etc long before they came along. The intelligent buyer who now uses Carfax is the same buyer who before researched their purchase and had them inspected to make sure the vehicle was worthy of purchase. The careless buyer doesn't look at the CarFax or doesn't do the still necessary inspection. CarFax is far from capturing all the information. Right behind the CarFax ploy along comes the lawyers selling the diminished value concept as another money maker from the consumer. While insurance companies are the ones writing the checks it takes very naive people to not recognize that ultimately we are all paying for the nonsense with increased insurance premiums. Another case of people inventing their own industry and then selling people on the idea that their $40,000 vehicle loses 10% of its value if it suffers a $1,000 damage and is reported by CarFax. Again, it takes a very naive population to believe that concept is valid and we are the ones suffering the loss. People are taught that CarFax is protecting the consumer from the big bad dealer. Really? The dealer simply follows the market direction and starts subtracting major money from your value when you show up with a car with reported damage. Since people can't tell the difference between minor and major, every incidence starts costing big money. The only people losing and winning nothing in this deal are you and me.... the average consumer!
JALLEN4 09/22/19 06:22am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Diminshed Value Claims

Diminished Value is not a term that insurance companies like to hear unless it is in thier favor. Example: I had a rebuilt title 98 Buick Riviera that I used as a daily commuter. I bought it at an insurance auction, it had a damaged front bumper cover, left headlight and fender. I repaired it, less than 2K for parts, (this was a few years back). I drove it for years and then gave it to my son who was promply rear ended by someone talking on their phone instead of paying attention to what they were doing. They had no insurance, ours covered it on the uninsured motorist coverage. At the time it was worth about 4500 per the blue book, they paid 2k! The reason?? it had been totaled before! Did they give me a 50% discount on the coverage costs all the time I had it insured with them? NO!!! Rant over.... Get a lawyer. That is the only way to fight it. IT will not be worth it. The legal fees are going to more than surpass any gains you will get on the diminished value claim. Did that car not have a salvage title? If you bought it at an insurance auction with a branded title, you knew exactly what you were buying into. The "book" value does not reflect the salvage title. As well, obviously your insurance coverage costs are not based exclusively on the value of the vehicle involved. Liability, comprehensive, and several other factors weigh in to the ultimate cost.
JALLEN4 09/21/19 06:34am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Diminshed Value Claims

There is an inherent danger in non-disclosure of accident repairs when selling even though the accident doesn't appear on Carfax. Putting the moral issues aside, a subsequent collision to the same area that was repaired could cause a structural failure resulting in injuries, possible lawsuits, etc. If an insurance adjuster should deny or low-ball your claim because it isn't on Carfax, ask them if they are saying that you should withhold the repair info from any prospective buyer. Not one of them will answer yes. Therefore, the "not on Carfax" claim denial approach is easily challenged. I have through my businesses sold tens of thousands of cars with that never being a "thing". You are just making up scenarios trying to justify your business.
JALLEN4 09/16/19 05:34am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Diminshed Value Claims

So what kind of damage was sustained in the first place? How much less in value (perceived) has the rig incurred? These things have very poor resale value as it is, so how much worse could the “fender bender” make it? Yes Sir, the diminished value happened the day the sales contract was signed. More fitting to sue the dealer and RV manufacturer. You are confusing Diminished Value with Depreciation. Just a quick question. Do you own a rv or are you here to promote your business? I just noticed there was no mention of one in your profile. He is here to promote his business which I understood to be against the forum rules. I have encountered him on other vehicle forums.
JALLEN4 09/15/19 06:02am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Diminshed Value Claims

ST Lucie Appraisal. Yes, you are correct, opinions seem to be what you must gather. However, in the eyes of the insurance company you are dealing with for the claim, we at least have been told, "statistical" data presented is not sufficient....basically all opinions you gather and present are not enough to satisfy your claim. So if not acceptable, what is?? What makes you think that the unbiased opinions of six professionals in the business of buying and selling RVs aren't enough to satisfy your claim? I'm pleased that some of those who posted on this thread aren't magistrates. Ultimately, if the insurance company attempts to low-ball a claimant, the RV owner can obtain satisfaction (as well as reimbursement of costs) in a court of law. I should add that your obtaining these dealer quotes will likely get you nowhere because the dealers could be considered "interested parties" whose objective is to make a profit. If an independent appraiser queries the dealers with the understanding that the RV isn't available for purchase or trade then they are unbiased opinions which has evidentiary value. You are going to disclose to these folks you do these diminished value claims for a living and your answers might be a bit biased?
JALLEN4 09/14/19 05:49am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Diminshed Value Claims

I think diminished value is a wonderful thing. The more claims paid the higher everyone's insurance rates will be which ultimately means my insurance stocks will go up in value. So, a big thanks to the trolls registering new on this Forum and many others to spread the word about diminished value...a growth industry!
JALLEN4 09/13/19 05:33am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Confessions of an RV Salesman

I've often thought about being an RV salesman for real, because I like rv's and talking to people about rv's. The problem I would be to honest and therefore either have small paychecks or fired.;) Dan I can assure you it is far easier to be successful in the business with honesty. It actually leads to larger paychecks and longer term employment.
JALLEN4 08/13/19 06:15am General RVing Issues
RE: Confessions of an RV Salesman

Over the years, I had two salesmen who worked for me that wrote books on the salesmen cheating people buying vehicles. Neither of the two were at all successful selling and I ultimately had to let both of them go. Ironically, neither of the two were at all honest and their files contained specific instances where they were less than honest with a customer which led to their demise. Sometimes it is easier to write a book about cheating than to make an honest living.
JALLEN4 08/13/19 06:13am General RVing Issues
RE: MN new laws August 1st

There's plenty of times that we move into the left lane because the right lane is terribly bumpy. The law keeping people out of the left lane is insane. I like the law in Arkansas, don't impede traffic in the left lane. So that makes you somehow exempt from the law because you think your rig doesn't ride to your liking on certain roads? What is in fact insane is the thought that somehow we are above the law and it is ours to ignore!Not insane, common sense. Rote obedience is ridiculous. Blindly obeying ordinances even when there's no good reason, is absurd. If there's no cars around, I will even cross the street against the light. How's that for being a scofflaw! It is so heartening that we have so many "common sense" people who make up their own minds as to what is right and wrong. So grateful people can decide independently when obeying ordinances they disagree with is absurd. We seem to have a lot of that going on lately.I'm curious what you do about the long-forgotten laws that are still on the books in places. Do you make sure you obey those too? What about Jim Crow laws? Don't forget to obey all of these: In Cleveland it's illegal to catch mice without a hunting license. Columbus archives say that it is illegal for stores to sell cornflakes on a Sunday. In Ohio it's illegal to kill a housefly within 160 feet of a church without a license. Oxford law states it is unlawful for a woman to appear in public while unshaven. This includes legs and face. And don't forget "Ignorance of the law is no excuse". I'm sorry, but you must know what a dumb post that really is. The laws you mention are all very old and simply examples of outdated ones that have not been repealed. What is being discussed here is contemporary and problematic. These laws are being passed in many states to reaffirm what has long been safety concerns, common sense courtesy and reasonableness of slower traffic keep right. All this... I watch and move over when I see traffic approaching is BS and even those stating it know better. The closing speed of modern traffic where passenger cars are over taking slow moving and cumbersome RV's, often 50 feet or more in length, represents a problem. But, here we have a representation of those ignorant of the problem and thinking they are more important, choosing to ignore the law because they don't like the "ride". It is great you choose to meander down the highway causing problems, ignoring the rights of others, and considering yourself far more knowledgeable than the general public. You, Sir, represent the attitudes that cause the general public to dislike the RV users.
JALLEN4 08/05/19 05:28am General RVing Issues
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