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RE: Water saver for shower.
You do not have to be in the middle of nowhere to have issues with water. The last time I visited the Cutbank campground in Glacier National Park, the water had been shut off for a couple of years. I visited another campground in Canyonlands NP and even at the end of September the water had been shut off until next season. At Great Basin NP, the water system was shut off due to some sort of emergency repair. All of that happened on the same camping trip.
Addendum: Oops I forgot about Mesa Verde NP. Campground was still open and due to close for the season in another week. Water was shut off.
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JimK-NY
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03/27/23 01:26pm |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Rv loan rates!
So when the market tanks and you need cash to pay the loan, you just locked in your losses.
Yeah, you can be you but just pointing out for others some of the risks of investing on margin.
I have the same issue with a $350K mortgage. The money I would have spent on the house has made me about $150K since 2013. I also saved a bit on taxes with itemized deductions.
Now that the markets have slowed down, I may not break even for a few years but I am in no hurry to pay off the mortgage. Long term my investments are highly, highly likely to cover the 3.2% mortgage and give me even more yields.
That said, I would agree this is a very poor time to borrow at relatively high rates to finance an RV. In fact, IMO, potential buyers need to think twice. If we enter a period of recession and higher unemployment, how safe is your income? If you need to stop the payments and sell your RV, how big of a loss are you willing to accept?
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JimK-NY
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03/27/23 01:16pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: How long should a battery last?
I have plans of getting a generator in a year or so, so it is not that I bought the wrong equipment, but that I am not yet prepared for what eventually I will be for.
You have other issues besides just getting a generator. First you need a battery bank of appropriate size for your power consumption. Next besides just buying a generator, do you have any idea of how much generator time is needed to replenish and completely charge your batteries? You are going to have to let that generator run for hours assuming you are allowed to do that where you are staying. For example in many National Parks some campgrounds do not allow generators. In others use is limited to a few hours a day corresponding to meal times. If you do stay where generator use is not restricted, you might be subject to listening to a campground full of noisy generators.
Or are you just willing to limit almost all of your camping to RV parks with hook ups?
Do you really think you bought the right equipment? Does it work for you now? Will it be what you want later on? If so, then great.
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JimK-NY
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03/27/23 06:09am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Insane first RV trip plan?
I love camping in the SW deserts and on the W coast. Unfortunately, I live on the E coast and am used to driving long distances.
I typically start my day at 7 am or so and hit the road after several cups of coffee about 9 am. By 11 am I am ready for a pit stop and typically also need to fuel up. My Interstate driving speed is typically about 60-65 mph so first leg covers about 120 miles. My next driving stint is typically about 3-4 hours so a total of 340 miles. At that point in the trip I take a long stop, fix something good to eat and then take a half hour nap. By then I am well rested and able to drive another 3-4 hours. So the day's total is often over 500 miles. In the Summer months, with several hours of daylight still left, I might take another nice nap and finish up with a couple more hours of driving. I have hit about 650 miles on my longest days of driving and finish the day feeling good. I never push and when I start feeling tired I look ahead for a convenient Walmart parking lot, a rest stop, or a truck stop. I can almost always find some place safe and convenient within an hour of when I start looking.
That is the way I drive on the Interstate traveling through flyover country. When I reach my designation areas I slow way down and like to spend days and sometimes weeks in the same National Park or general area. I would not even vaguely consider taking the trip the OP is planning.
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JimK-NY
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03/26/23 05:43pm |
Beginning RVing
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RE: Water saver for shower.
Our bus carries 147 usable gallons of fresh and that will last 5-7 days depending upon how many nice long hot showers we take that week. I'm OK not being out there in the middle of nowhere for an unknown amount of time.
Those who enjoy squeezing the last drop of water out of a thimble should be applauded (I suppose) but it does make interesting reading.
I am not appalled at all. Having a big bus with 147 gallons of water goes perfectly with your desire not to be in "the middle of nowhere".
In fact I am very glad there are places for you big rig guys to stay leaving some of the great background areas less crowded.
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JimK-NY
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03/26/23 01:09pm |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Water saver for shower.
John, that was a great write-up -- lots of good ideas. Thanks for posting that!
I agree. His approach and goals are very close to mine.
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JimK-NY
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03/26/23 06:39am |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Insane first RV trip plan?
If you want the blitz tour of several national parks, don't even bother with camping. Take a bus tour and leave the driving to them. The logistics of camping, and driving are going to be exhausting and you will be too rushed to see much of the parks.
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JimK-NY
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03/25/23 10:02pm |
Beginning RVing
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RE: Rv loan rates!
When it comes to their toys, which includes RVs, a great many people are caught up in dreams and desires and they want what they want and are willing to pay for it.
When it comes to RVs this has several outcomes. Again, they want what they want and are willing to pay for it. That results in a typically strong market for new RVs and a relatively weak market for used RVs. That also results in a high depreciation rate. Next when buying new, desires and skillful sales reps result in many people buying more than they really need. All those amenities and current decor mean spending more and more and often getting units that are homes away from home rather than just an RV.
All those desires and dreams often end up in disappointment. Often the buyers have very limited experience and later find they are less interested than they thought. Taking the kids camping sounds great when they are younger. As they approach teenage years, forget it. The last thing they want is a vacation cooped up with the parents. Again more used RV supply.
For those willing to use some reasoning when buying there are strong lessons. First don't buy until you are sure the big expenses and commitment will be worth it. Next don't overbuy. Buy something smaller, easier to use, and less expensive. Really consider buying used. You will take advantage of that massive initial depreciation. You might get a unit where the warranty repairs have taken care of some of the shoddy construction and poor materials.
As to paying: with rising interest rates it becomes way more expensive to borrow. The idea of borrowing at low rates and investing that money is not reasonable at this time. It is easy to become overextended. Now it not the time for that. In fact those who think they can afford to borrow or to pay with cash need to really think it through. We have had a great many years with low inflation, low interest rates and a booming economy. There clearly are going to be some adjustments in the economy.
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JimK-NY
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03/25/23 05:02pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: How long should a battery last?
Why use the fridge? you are talking just 1 weekend, use a cooler for your food. Use minimal lights, minimal water (pump).
Problem solved.
This has been suggested numerous times but somehow does not meet the OPs requirements.
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JimK-NY
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03/25/23 01:36pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: How long should a battery last?
This thread reminds me of a friend who bought an EV and wanted to take a road trip. In theory they should be able to drive a couple hundred miles before charging so not much of a road trip. To make it worse they wanted to travel in the winter months. The batteries are less efficient in the cold and battery power is needed to heat the interior of the car. So no road trips in that car.
They had great intentions. First they thought they would save on operating costs. We live in an area where electric rates are way, way over the national average so that is not going to happen. Next they thought they were helping to keep pollution down and doing their part to reduce global warming. That electric power did not come free. It comes from a power plant burning natural gas or an older plant burning oil.
Sometimes there just isn't a good fix after buying the wrong thing.
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JimK-NY
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03/25/23 06:59am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Water saver for shower.
We are way out on the lunatic fringe of water conservation -- we have 30 gallons of fresh water, which lasts us six days. It is used for showering (every night), cooking, dishwashing, and toilet flushing.
The real limiting factor for us is the gray water -- we only have a 25 gallon gray tank, and it fills up in six days. So we have to dump every week.
...
I am on the same lunatic fringe with 30 gallons of water to last 6 days including nightly showers.
In theory I have a bigger gray water issue since my tank only holds 15 gallons. I do have a 5 gallon bucket I use for a kitchen trash bag holder. When needed, I use it to haul off some grey water. It is typically pretty easy to find a place where tent campers are supposed to dump water. Worst case, when boondocking in the middle of nowhere, I would lug it into the woods and dump. It's probably cleaner than rainwater running off the side of the camper so I really have no concern about causing any sort of pollution.
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JimK-NY
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03/24/23 07:40pm |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Water saver for shower.
So exceedingly correct! I used to boon dock for a week, on what I believe was a 35-45 gallon tank. Showering was out of the question. We'd be looking for water after 5 conservative days. Now-a-days, we have 60 gallons and we pretty easily go 12 day's and take a shower or two each. Buying 10 each one gallons of drinking water to make coffee and have for drinking really helps keep the water in the tank. All kinds of ways to make it work and it's neat to see other campers ideas.
As previously discussed, water conservation techniques can be extremely important. If I had 60 gallons, I could take a shower every day and still go about 12 days before needing water. The way my wife and I do it, a shower is 1 gallon/day/person.
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JimK-NY
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03/24/23 01:37pm |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Water saver for shower.
It seems obvious that there will never be any sort of universal agreement or even understanding on this topic. There are just too many differences between the rigs we have, the type of camping we do and the access to water where we camp. Someone who has a big rig with a 100 gallons of water, or who takes short trips, or has ready access to water, is not going to understand camping in remote areas for many days with a small FW tank. I have seen plenty of people camping in van conversions or other small rigs and getting by for days with 10 gallons of water or less.
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JimK-NY
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03/24/23 01:22pm |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: How long should a battery last?
They don't install absorption fridges anymore.
Who is "they"? There are plenty of makers who install 3 way, absorption refrigerators. You bought the wrong unit for any boondocking. You need to camp with hook ups always.
In fact the situation is even worse than that. It seems you have a fairly large compressor refrigerator and a puny battery. Totally depleting the battery in 24 hours means even an overnight stay at a rest stop or Walmart while traveling is going to be a strain and shorten the life of your battery. You better also hope that when camping with hookups, the power never goes out for more than a brief time.
How much cold food and drink do you need for a weekend trip without electricity? Use an ice chest or get everything cold before your boondocking and then turn off the refrigerator.
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JimK-NY
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03/24/23 01:12pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Water saver for shower.
I carry lots of water because I eat on real dishes, take daily showers and I don't want my black tank clogging up.
I don't know what you mean by lots of water. I am limited with a 30 gallon FW tank. On rare occasions I also fill one or two 5 gallon folding jugs.
I also almost always use "real" dishes. I can still do my cooking and kitchen clean up with about 1 gallon/day. My 3 gallon use is pretty evenly spread with a gallon each for showering, kitchen use, and drinking. Fortunately I don't have to worry about even more for the BW tank.
With some thought and experience there are lots of techniques that can help conserve water. Fortunately my wife is onboard with this. The alternative means short stays in remote areas where we would really like to stay longer. It can also mean driving long distances just to fill the FW tank. Even with care my stays without water are limited to a week or so. I don't want that to turn into just 2 or 3 days.
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JimK-NY
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03/24/23 08:28am |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Water saver for shower.
Just one more comment on use of FW for showers. I often camp in the desert SW when temps are relatively high and access to water can be limited. A daily shower is almost a necessity.
When I really want to extend my trip, there are some options. First is to give up on washing hair every day. A quick rinse without using soap works pretty well at least for a day or two and cuts down on the 1 gallon of FW I typically would use for a shower.
Next is a sponge bath to substitute for a shower. With proper technique you can do really well with less than a quart of water. You can even use "body wash" instead of regular soap. Just be sure to get an appropriate product. Typically they will be advertised as "hospital grade, no rinse" or some similar description.
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JimK-NY
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03/24/23 07:04am |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Water saver for shower.
FWIW, I did a little testing with our Oxygenics showerhead a couple years ago and found that keeping the flow as low as possible but still getting a spray effect, it would consume .6 gallons per minute.
Now, as far as toilets go, I read about people saying "use plenty of water " for the black tank, as well as many saying that they can go 2 weeks before dumping the black tank. How much should you put in the toilet between flushes?? We put about a quart of water in (I've measured it!). Too much? Not enough? With a 41 gallon tank, we can go a week max before the dreaded burp.
JK
You are in a whole different category from some of us who are concerned about saving a few cups of water. For example I am trying to get by for a week or so with a 30 gallon FW tank. It seems that you use more than that just flushing your toilet.
My RV is more boondocking oriented. It has a built in cassette toilet. The water tank for flushing is a separate 6 gallon tank. Flushing is very efficient and only requires a very small amount of water from a high velocity jet. Flushing uses maybe 2 gallons a week.
Even with a built in toilet you should not need a lot of water to keep the system working. Even a very minimal amount of flush water should work. Chemicals and sloshing during travel should avoid any build up and most RVs also allow you to use GW when dumping to break up any remaining sediment.
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JimK-NY
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03/24/23 06:48am |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Water saver for shower.
For what it is worth, here is how we save water while waiting for the hot water to arrive: Every night, DW is the first to shower. She takes a four-cup plastic measuring cup into the shower. She runs water from the hot water faucet into the measuring cup until the water coming from the faucet is warm enough.
The measuring cup usually contains about two cups by the time she decides the water is warm enough.
Then, she showers. (And yes, these are very serious Navy showers -- we mostly boondock.)
When she is ready for a final rinse, she adds a little hot water to the measuring cup and uses the warm water for rinsing.
Then it is my turn to shower. The water in the hose is already warm, so I don't need to use a measuring cup.
Someone mentioned Oxygenics. We got one for the trailer and found that it uses a little too much water -- about 3 quarts per minute, on a minimum setting. We found that a cheap little low flow showerhead consumes two quarts per minute on a minimum setting.
The Oxygenics is now in our S&B house -- it's great.
I also use up a couple of cups of water waiting for the HW to flow out of the showerhead. I just don't bother trying to save that small amount. Being careful with the rest of the shower, being careful with washing and rinsing dishes and even being careful on brushing teeth can save even more water. I can only commend your efforts but they go a bit beyond what I see as significant.
I also agree on the Oxygenics. Those who think it works well in an RV are probably using hookups. It is designed to run at about a gallon per minute, which is my entire consumption of water for a shower.
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JimK-NY
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03/23/23 09:45pm |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Water saver for shower.
Our tank is directly below our shower. We easily collect a gallon before the water gets hot.
That does not seem possible. Supply lines just don't hold much water. RV supply lines are almost always PEX plastic which does not pull much heat out of the water. I think I would start by looking at the plumbing and try to understand how a gallon of cold water could be in the supply lines.
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JimK-NY
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03/23/23 11:26am |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Water saver for shower.
We too take Navy showers, but that initial "lead" of water is COLD! Right now we are catching it in a bucket, if we remember. At that, it is a pain. Who has this and does it really halp?
Again for my situation the amount of water I need to waste getting the hot from the tank to the faucet is very small. Perhaps you have much 1/2" instead of 3/8" supply lines and a long distance from the tank. I am curious, how much water are you catching?
BTW, I maintain a clean FW tank suitable for brushing teeth, drinking after a Brita, and kitchen uses. I am not sure I would want to recycle HW back into the FW tank. After years of use, I am having difficulty keeping the HW clean. I have had issues with odors and mineral deposits even after a vinegar soak. I already spend enough effort on water conservation. Rather than recycle, I would even prefer to carry an extra gallon or two of water in a jug.
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JimK-NY
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03/23/23 10:39am |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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