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RE: Real life solar results
Our Escape came with a 170 watt panel on the roof and a GoPower PWM SCC. As long as we had decent sun it was fine, but shading would cause problems, plus the 170 watt is mounted on the back of the camper with about a 5 degree slope. Just don't camp with the panel facing north.
We have 260 ah's of SiO2 batteries.
We didn't want to worry about use, so I installed three 100 watt panels, and a Victron 100/30 SCC, so now have 465 watts in parallel on the roof (wired in parallel we lose 5 watts from the 170 watt panel, in series we lose 65 watts). We don't have a microwave (don't want or need one), and don't have an inverter (but want one for a toaster). We now have all the juice we need and an inverter for the toaster will be installed next!
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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09/23/21 02:11pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Group 24 Flooded to Group 31 AGM
Don't BattlerBorns fit in a Group 24 box?
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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09/19/21 01:10pm |
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RE: Lithium cost keep dropping!
Love the advertising:
"Local US Warehouse" that builds my confidence.
"No poisonous lead/harmful sulfuric acid" Let's see, lead acid batteries are extremely easy to recycle, whereas lithium iron phosphate is the opposite.
There is no free lunch.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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09/14/21 11:43pm |
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RE: white paper on SiO2 batteries
PerryB67 said, “ but it helps to dispel the arguments against SiO2.”
Maybe it’s slipped my fuzzy mind, but personally I don’t recall any *substantive arguments against SiO2, in fact, if my needs were like PT’s (say, a non-heated battery box, e.g. sub-zero temps) I too would consider SiO2 as a highly competitive choice…In the end, I’m quite sure you’ll experience no regrets with what seems a sage choice :)
*initial cost, but offset by longevity…
3 tonsOn another forum our choice was met by a few ridiculous arguments.
At least two insulting posts were removed by moderators and I received a couple of PM's, supporting my position, about the negative attitude shown. In the end I just left the Debbie Downers alone though.
From what I've seen so far the SiO2's were the correct choice for us.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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09/07/21 05:38pm |
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RE: white paper on SiO2 batteries
I received this and a couple of other papers last winter. This is an old paper, as are the others I found, and does not include LiFePO, but it helps to dispel the arguments against SiO2.
Our Soneil 260 ah SiO2's are still running perfectly. It's amazing how fast they charge, much, much faster than our AGM's. It's still too early for me to give a wholesale recommendation though.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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09/06/21 05:22pm |
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RE: Wondering if dealer did any damage.
Our friend's own a 23FB Airstream. They purchased three 100 watt panels and their gear from AM Solar in 2017. It easily keeps their two Lifeline AGM's topped off. They have an inverter, but it's rarely in use.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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08/24/21 12:59pm |
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RE: AGM battery question for the experts.
There are a few different ways batteries fail
Shorted cell (they never hit 12 volts)
high resistance (What you got is very very high resistance)
and as Mex said broken conneciton (Also very very very high resistance)Or your WFCO fails and decides to run 21 volts to your AGM's.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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07/25/21 07:04am |
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RE: why i call Li fussy
Sadly, a trend seems to have developed whereby certain keyboard interlopers (of the SiO2 persuasion) have found a creative way to corrupt sentient dialogue (easily evidenced in numerous threads…) by purposefully conjuring up a dogged stream of seemingly plausible (actually, implausible…) ‘Gotcha’s’!!, as well as easily demonstrable intentional misrepresentations - Unfortunately, some extreme discernment is required as this tactic continues unhindered….Note that no LFP thread has been exempted from this type of information corruption…
3 tonsYou're last 8 posts have been quite, well . . . . . .
If you don't like what is proposed you can always go play somewhere else. A forum is for information, not a place to pontificate one's knowledge. Apparently some SiO2 owners (there are three of us in this thread) upset you. That's your problem.
I asked a legitimate question for my Airstream friend about ultra-cold lithiums being used. I got my answer, but it seems since YOU can't understand the situation it can only be "implausible" in your world.
Whenever I have a question I will present it here, despite the childish insults thrown.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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06/18/21 04:20pm |
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RE: why i call Li fussy
I decided to do more research. Turns out that conversation I had with Battleborn last winter was accurate.
From Battleborn's web site: https://battlebornbatteries.com/faq/
"Storing batteries in subzero weather (-15°F or more) has the potential to crack the ABS plastic and more importantly could cause a faster loss of capacity, in some cases drastically more than the typical 2 – 4% per month loss."
"Battle Born Batteries protect themselves from charging in cold temperatures and won’t accept a charge once the internal cell temperature drops to 24°F. At this point they will continue to discharge even down to -4°F. At this temperature we recommend no longer pulling power to avoid damaging the batteries."
Guess I'm not starting that furnace!
We camp to much in all kinds of weather and I'm not getting into moving batteries back and forth from heated storage. That was Battleborn's suggestion last winter.
I'm asking these questions for my Airstream friend with a battery box located outside the camper on the tongue. His Lifelines are starting to lose capacity.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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06/16/21 07:05pm |
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RE: why i call Li fussy
Yes you can.
It sounds like your batteries are within the heated space, then you don't need heated batteries, which brings the price down to ~$500 per 100Ah. Or you can add an adhesive heater (about $25) to a regular battery to make it a heated battery if you want.You misunderstood.
The camper is winterized and in storage. The furnace hasn't been running since it went into storage. It's anywhere from -20 to 0F INSIDE the camper. Everything in the camper and the batteries in a box outside are -20 to 0F. There is NO 110 available.
Can I just flip the switch on the -20 to 0F Battleborns, wait until they get nice and toasty, and then turn on the furnace?
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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06/16/21 06:15pm |
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RE: why i call Li fussy
There is something up with BB website - the heated batteries are normally ~ $1000 not $2000. The other batteries don't need a switch - they only heat when it is both cold and they are charging, any of them will work in the situation you describe.
You can also just mount regular lithium batteries inside the camper and use your furnace to warm them up. Or add a cheap heating pad to the batteries. This is not the unsolvable problem that folks make it out to be.So at -20 to 0F I can use the batteries to run the furnace to heat the batteries? Apparently I got some really crappy info from Battleborn last winter.
Then there's the price. Even $1,000 for a heated Battleborn is too much for only 100 ah's.
I'm good for now with 260 ah's of SiO2 batteries, but just want to give accurate advice to friends. I'm currently adding three 100 watt Renogy panels to the existing 170 watt panel on the roof. We have a site in a great campground on the Root River. It seems I'm spending just as much time explaining what/why to neighbors as time spent adding more solar to the roof. :)
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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06/16/21 12:21pm |
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RE: why i call Li fussy
There is something up with BB website - the heated batteries are normally ~ $1000 not $2000. The other batteries don't need a switch - they only heat when it is both cold and they are charging, any of them will work in the situation you describe.
You can also just mount regular lithium batteries inside the camper and use your furnace to warm them up. Or add a cheap heating pad to the batteries. This is not the unsolvable problem that folks make it out to be.So at -20 to 0F I can use the batteries to run the furnace to heat the batteries? Apparently I got some really crappy info from Battleborn last winter.
Then there's the price. Even $1,000 for a heated Battleborn is too much for only 100 ah's.
I'm good for now with 260 ah's of SiO2 batteries, but just want to give accurate advice to friends. I'm currently adding three 100 watt Renogy panels to the existing 170 watt panel on the roof. We have a site in a great campground on the Root River. It seems I'm spending just as much time explaining what/why to neighbors as time spent adding more solar to the roof.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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06/16/21 12:12pm |
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RE: why i call Li fussy
Yes.
Relion Heated Battery
Battleborn Heated Battery
Renogy Heated Battery
Or you can use your furnace to heat any old lithium battery.
We use our camper year round in the Rockies with lithium batteries without a problem.Thanks for the links!
Looked at your three linked batteries and only Battleborn has a switch.
When I called Battleborn last February they did not inform me of a switch and the person I talked with felt their battery would not meet my needs. Obviously I talked to the wrong person.
If/when my SiO2 bank fails hopefully the price will have come down. At $2,098 for only 100 ah's it's a no-go for me. EDIT: I see the site price has changed to $1,049.
I will tell my Airstream friends about this battery, but at that price I don't think they'll bite.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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06/16/21 07:34am |
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RE: why i call Li fussy
I don't want to build a battery.
Where we store our camper November to February there is no electrical hookup.
Does Battborn, Renogy, etc. have a LFP battery with a heater that can sit for months without charge, without the built-in heater running, and then two days before leaving can you turn that heater on?
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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06/16/21 06:30am |
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RE: why i call Li fussy
With all those extreme limiters in mind, sounds like a lifestyle change may be in order??…Either way, it would seem that extended periods at -30 degs does help to rationalize your inclination towards Sio2 (this, supposing they’ll do the job adequately?)…FWIW, I view this as an outlier scenario…
3 tonsThose in the northern climates who leave in January understand pianotuna. Had this discussion in a hot tub last March with a guy from Montana who understood this outlier postition. It's real and happens to those who's camper doesn't sit over winter.
Count us in as another outlier. Count our friends near St Cloud, Minnesota with their Airstream as another outlier. In fact you can count anyone in northern climates using a storage lot with no electrical outlet, but like us leave in the middle/end of January when it's well below freezing, as outliers.
Besides, many of us camp at 0F (-18C). I'm not going to be hauling batteries in and out of the camper in that weather when it's really not needed. YMMV.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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06/16/21 06:16am |
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RE: 24 V Solar Panel(s)
In the end I only have room for one 24v panel and did not like how the panel would be mounted. I failed to account for the large overhang of the Maxx Fan, reducing the available space to less than 22" so the second panel was not possible.
I decided on using three, 41" x 20" 100 watt Renogy panels wired in parallel along with the existing 170 watt GoPower panel. The four together, allowing for the slight mismatch of VMP, will give us 463-465 watts on a perfect day that never happens. The two rearmost panels can easily be shaded by the AC and Maxx Fan in January/February preventing wiring in series, but two of the new panels will never be shaded by the AC or the Maxx Fan, giving at worse case 200 watts.
I really did not want to add a second set of wires to connect the 24v panel to one of the Victron controllers, especially since I could only add one 24v 200 watt panel to the roof for only 370 watts. If I could have added that second 24v panel the choice was clear, but in the end that was not possible.
Thanks for your input,
Perry
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PerryB67
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06/04/21 07:24am |
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RE: 24 V Solar Panel(s)
Not clear, but the OP must know he can't put the 12v 170 in with the 24v panels. I think he wants to keep the 170 with PWM and get a 24v set with an MPPT and use both controllers in parallel on the battery bank.
That's what we do in the C. Two controllers, one PWM and one MPPT. Just set the Vabs at the same voltage in each controller so they add their amps.The 24v panels would be controlled by our Victron 100/30 controller that is currently hooked to our 170 watt panel. You can't/shouldn't combine 12v and 24v to the same controller.
I would pull another set of wires to our dinette where the controllers live to the original factory installed GoPower PWM controller for the 12v 170 watt panel.
I also have a 100 watt portable that is controlled by a Victron 100/20 controller. So I would have three different panel types run by three separate controllers. As you know, it works.
The first thing I would do is install one 12v 200 watt panel and hook it to the Victron 100/30 controller, leaving the 170 watt panel on the roof. Then a month or so later, pull wires for the 12v 170 watt panel and reinstall the GoPower controller.
I have more room for controllers than extra real estate on the roof for panels.
Down the road I would install the second 24v 200 watt panel and parallel with the other 24v panel to the controller. And yes, I will buy two 24v 200 watt panels at the same time.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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05/08/21 01:47pm |
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RE: 24 V Solar Panel(s)
maybe instead of getting ignorant you should have worded the question a bit more clear, I read "I am thinking", not "I am getting" so for your original question, go with the 200's instead of the 100's also if your not going to jump down my throat I would also sugest you look for a split cell design panel as you said your going to be camping in the shade and they are the most efficient in shading.
SteveI suggest, not "sugest", you look up the definition of the word "ignorant" and then consider the context you chose to use "ignorant". PM me if you wish more discussion on this subject.
With more watts on the roof, and 24v to gather sun longer in the morning and evening, a 24v panel makes more sense to me than a 12v split cell design. YMMV. Our panels (two 24v 200w and one 12v 170w) would be situated in the front, middle, and rear of the camper. Location on the roof also helps with shading.
Enjoy,
Perry
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PerryB67
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05/08/21 09:07am |
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RE: 24 V Solar Panel(s)
Perry,
You may want to look for panels that have by pass diodes between each and every cell.I'm having a hard time finding panels that fit, much less pass diodes between each and every cell. I'm constricted by less than 64" long and/or less than 24-25" wide.
My 170 panel, when in the sun, does just fine. I'm thinking 350 watts is overkill for our needs, but as we all know, needs change.
What panels have diodes between each cell?
Interesting read on bypass diodes.
Perry
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PerryB67
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05/07/21 08:09am |
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RE: 24 V Solar Panel(s)
no thats what I mean though, if you can fit two or three pannels on there why stop at a 200 watt? a 350 isnt much bigger and two of them would be better than three 200watt panels then if you need a third you can add it later. down in the staits whats the difference between a 200 and 325 -350 down there 30 bucks? its only about 50 bucks up here. bang for your buck it just seams a better option.Are you listening? I specifically gave the panel. That's what I'm interested in. Is it a good idea or not. I never asked for opinions of other panels and don't feel like getting into a minutiae of everything solar discussion.
...........................................
At this point I'm thinking of buying two 24v Rich Solar panels, running new wires to an additional controller and calling it a day. I have plenty of room for another controller (already have two), but don't have room for bigger roof panels. Not taking off the existing 170 watt panel would give me 570 watts on the roof and a 100 watt portable. Money, within reason, is not a problem.
OR add three 100 watt Renogy panels @ $109 a panel (one on a tilt mount), run wires to the Victron 100/20 controller already in place for the Renogy portable (Vmp and Imp are nearly identical). I would then have 470 watts on the roof and 100 in a portable if needed. Perhaps I should just stick with 12v.
It's my SIL's 70th birthday this weekend. After that we take the camper to the North Shore for four nights, biking, hiking and mushroom hunting, then babysit our two grandkids for another three days. When we get back on May 17th I'll have made a decision. I'll check in to see if there are any other opinions.
Perry
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PerryB67
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05/06/21 08:12pm |
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