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RE: 3/4 or 1 ton SUV ?

For sure. 99% of the market would come from existing full-size truck and suv buyers. No doubt. How to win over new buyers? Make something new that people want. Offer a real diesel like Ford did for a few years, not the underpowered whiny 6.0 Vortec. Offer something that people want to be seen in. Doesn’t take much. (My new work truck just because it has a 2” lift, mudders, decent looking wheels and some cool stickers and painted tow hooks has got more random complements in a week than my previous work truck which was essentially the same but not “off road.”) Take the new Burb body, which looks killer btw, toss it on a HD chassis, give it a little lift and some bling and a 5” tailpipe that begets the fire breathing diesel under the hood and watch all the guys “justify” this for their wife’s next soccermobile that also pull their boat and camper 10x a year! Put a cool looking roof rack on it and offer an attachment for a hi lift jack and some rotopax jugs. People be mall crawlin in them just like the Jeep’s, in no time. Added benefit, those that have a real need for one now have their next family truckster tow rig back, which is what this thread was all about. How many people “have to have” a big diesel truck that don’t need one? Answer? Most of them. Myself included. How many wives want a fancy SUV to drive through the Starbucks in? Answer? Most of them. (Well, not the liberal ones....different topic). I totally get what you're saying, and I personally would love a 3/4 ton, or even 1-ton class SUV. But I, and most on this board, are in the minority. Let's say they built a killer 'Burb, on a modern 2500 chassis, 445hp non-neutered Duramax + 10 speed. Then let's say it sold well, 50,000 units a year. But... 25,000 out of those came from existing Silverado HD buyers, another 20,000 from Suburban 1500 buyers. Remember, these buyers brings NO PROFIT. So if GM is lucky, 5,000 new buyers would come from crossover buyers. But even that's unlikely, as they'll upgrade to a 1500 'Burb / Expedition first. Let's just say it happens, bunch of Explorer or Highlander buys suddenly wants a big truck. How do we make enough profit from 5,000 units to offset the R&D cost?
RoyJ 03/03/21 05:21pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 3/4 or 1 ton SUV ?

Personally they're not my thing. Id take a HD truck 10 times out of 9 for my use. But given the soaring sales of full size trucks and suvs, year by year it just seems strange that a HD suv platform wouldn't be successful once again. Considering, for 1 mfg, they would only need to steal less than 5% of the overall market share of current full size suvs and trucks to sell some comparable quantities to other vehicle models. Like I was saying before, they're probably afraid of cannibalizing their own HD truck sales. If someone truly needed a Suburban 2500 or Excursion, they would've already bought a 2500/F250. The only alternative would be a Suburban 1500 or Expedition EL, but that's still cannibalism. How do they win over new buyers into the HD SUV market, that would've otherwise bought something completely different? i.e. your Highlander / Atlas / other large crossover buyer are not cross shopping 3/4 ton SUVs.
RoyJ 03/02/21 09:05pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Wonder if truck makers will start making 10001 # 1/2 tons.

I tend to agree. But those with deeper pockets may get something like Tesla’s baby semi. That would work. Depending how people tour the charge time might not be an issue. Wouldn’t be for us. Then again. A long day on the road in the Motorhome for us is 600 km. Just sayin. If we're willing to do a lifestyle change, like adapting to Euro / Aussie "caravans", then a 200 kWh tow rig could work. I'd imagine a 4000 lbs folding travel trailer (same height as the truck), will push power requirements below 50kW. That's 4 hour or ~280 mile range @ 70 mph. Drop cruising speed to 55 mph and we may squeeze out 350 miles. Then, as long as you stay in an RV camp, you'd have roughly 4kW of charging power. Stay 2 - 3 days and you can travel again. But getting North Americans to accept a smaller trailers and 55 mph speeds would be the hardest part...
RoyJ 03/01/21 04:20pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 3/4 or 1 ton SUV ?

Grit, no half SUV made after 2013 has payload to support a family or 6+ and 1000 pounds of TW, regardless of "tow ratings" and engines/transmissions that are far more capable than my 3/4 ton. Van's are unpopular/unfashionable, but that does not make them less capable. I understand the OP's request for 3 rows of seats and not needing the truck bed. Why pay for the truck bed if not going to use it? Except, that 3rw row of climate controlled comfort and storage costs even more and has less RV towing capability. Even towing capable vans are on their last legs, thanks to the rise of fuel efficient Euro vans. The GM and Nissan are the last of their kind. Both the Transit and Sprinter maxes out at 7500 lbs. If you have a family of 6, that's 6500 lbs. Plenty of payload, but short on power. Even with the GM vans, a 6.6 Express can only tow 10k lbs. Compared to a 3/4 ton crewcab which can easily tow 15k lbs WITH a family of 6 on board.
RoyJ 03/01/21 02:00pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 3/4 or 1 ton SUV ?

Another reason could be shrinking family sizes. Compared to the 80s / 90s, very few families are having 3+ kids. In large cities with much very high living costs ($1.5M for tear-down house here in Vancouver), people can barely afford 1 or 2 kids. Then factor in how many crew cab, highly capable towing trucks are around that gets decent fuel economy and all the luxury needs you'd want. Yes, there're niche markets with niche demands, but OEMs are after volume and profit. How many 2500 Suburbans and Excursions can they sell today? And is it purely at the cannibalization of Silverado 2500 and F250 sales? Same reason we don't have Land Cruiser trucks, Unimogs, heavy cabovers the rest of the world gets. Lots people want them, but too much a niche market.
RoyJ 03/01/21 01:53pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Off Roading with the 2021 Bronco

2021 Jeep Wrangler from $28,475 The Can Am is the top of the line and the Jeep is the bottom, but I think its the OHVs that are ridiculously priced and not soo much Jeeps. I do agree OHVs are also highly over-priced. But most have very high performance components compared to on-road vehicles, hence why a dirt bike can cost $10k. To be fair, we need to compare top end Jeeps. Here in Canada a Rubi Gladiator diesel is $80k Cdn on the lot. Why not, they have the market 100% to themselves.
RoyJ 03/01/21 01:32pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Wonder if truck makers will start making 10001 # 1/2 tons.

I wonder what will happen to the resale value of Class 2/3/4 diesel trucks when the Big 3 announce they will no longer spend R&D funds on future FF development. No more torque wars :( No doubt this will probably be announced sometime in the next 10 years or so. Will the resale value of these Class 2/3/4 diesel trucks 1) go up because they will be prized for their range and power, or 2) will their resale value drop because battery technology will provide the same range and power? Or, will large RV's be a thing of the past? Will the RV industry be forced to copy the European model? I'm afraid of the latter. It'll be a while before an affordable battery pack can replace fossil fuel for towing / constant power applications. A Model 3 may take 10hp (7.46 kW) doing a slow 55 mph cruise, which is why EVs will quickly replace all commuters. But an 18k toy hauler probably requires an average 100kw at freeway speeds. Even with 200 kWh pack, we're talking 2 hours before recharging. Then factor in the fact that commutes are nearly always less than a hour, while annual camping trips are almost always further than 2 hrs. HD pickups may be a niche where EVs application doesn't work so well. You'll need a
RoyJ 03/01/21 01:24pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Off Roading with the 2021 Bronco

I'm just glad we get any new off road capable SUVs today! 40 years ago every "SUV" had off road capability. 30 years ago they started domestication, birth of the soccer SUV. 20 years ago we had a 50:50 split of offroad capable vs crossovers. Every Jeep still had solid axleS, Xterra, ZR2 Blazer, 4runner, Montero, Trooper, all LRs had solid axles. 10 years ago truck based SUVs were dying fast, only the 4runner & Jeep in the midsize market, Xterra on deathbed, and LC in the premium market. GM and Ford full sizes have grown too bulky for off roading. I don't expect a full re-birth of the market, as demand is too low. But any challenge would drive Toyota to some innovation, and Jeep to be a bit more humble with their prices.
RoyJ 03/01/21 12:59am Tow Vehicles
RE: Article on Rivian Electric half ton. Charging network.

I can see it now the dorks will be trying to figure out how to make it make noise and smoke. The price of playing cards and clothes pins will go up. The dorks offspring will be trying to find the catalytic converter and will finally just saw into the main power line. All of this while the fights are going on over the power pedestal. lol, WHAT!?
RoyJ 02/26/21 03:29pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Chevrolet exits all ICE production by 2035

I wonder how earthmovers, or other very large construction machines will be adapted to work on battery, how many hours will the operate and just as important how long will it take to recharge them, especially out in the middle of Nebraska. EVs are the future for personal transportation, but the need for ICE’s is here for a long time. Electric construction equipment is being developed as we speak Electric Construction equipment https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/01/electric-caterpillar-excavator-e1548740266295.jpg?w=2000&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1 width=480 Heavy mining excavators have had electric powered models for a few years now. Big difference - they are corded, with 3 phase primary voltage feed. I think this Cat will fill a niche market, where there's a load of idling (trenching, etc.). In a production environment of loading dump trucks, the engine runs nearly 100% duty cycle. At 122 kW and 300 kWh, we're talking maybe 3 hours before recharging.
RoyJ 02/26/21 03:22pm Tow Vehicles
RE: The Future of Chryslers SRT Division

That's what Im saying, the AMG decals tacked onto regular cars ruins the real AMG cars....of which are very few left that are produced. Ah, gotcha. I agree, just like they shouldn't tack a "Z06 performance package" on to a regular Vette. A Z06 is not a regular Vette and it's performance proves it. What I meant is if they had a "Z06 appearance pkg" on a regular base Vette, like the M-Sport pkg vs real M2/3/4/5
RoyJ 02/26/21 09:55am Tow Vehicles
RE: Wonder if truck makers will start making 10001 # 1/2 tons.

Most of you guys are just amazing!!!!!! You sit there in your smugness, declaring that there will be no electric vehicles, that battery technology will never be adequate, that the grid does not have the capacity,that this won't work and that won't work 1964 your high school graduation. They would yank your diploma and lock you up if you started goingon about a device the same size as a pack of cigarettes,( which you are familiar with because everyone smoked)that could make phone calls, do calculations,display maps and directions, receive broadcasts, and put the knowledge of the world at your fingertips. Tell them about that oven your mom has that can heat a can of soup in 3 minutes. Tell your classmates about adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance,lane assistance. Tearfully shout your goodbyes as they load you into the nut wagon. Some of you guys really need to think past the end of your nose! You can easily make the opposite argument - there were those, in the 60's, that thought by 2000 we'd colonize the moon, and by now, we should have mega-cities all over Mars. Heck, even the stubborn old mules that refuse to leave the big blue marble would be zipping around in flying cars going Mach7 from LA to NY. Could it be, gasp, they forgot to look at the total equation: the chemical energy it takes to defy gravity and enter Martian orbit to haul a billion tons of construction equipment? The ultimate limit of near-term propulsion technology? The burden of air traffic controlling 200-million flying cars, even with exponential computing power? Or, the near-term battery construction technology to replace every internal combustion engine, from John Deeres to Mercury marines...
RoyJ 02/25/21 11:37pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Wonder if truck makers will start making 10001 # 1/2 tons.

Do you have any idea what it takes to make a battery? Lithium, Cobalt, Nickel, and Magnesium are all MINED; largely in third world countries. The mines for these rare metals are huge; they burn vast amounts of DIESEL fuel to power the mining machines and trucks. There is lots of ground water contamination. There is lots of child labor being used. Further, unlike lead acid batteries, lithium batteries are not very recyclable; they are mostly just a throw-away battery. Current recycling "technology" for lithium batteries includes basically burning them to smelt the precious metals back out. Further, all these electric cars being recharged from a grid that is still 63% fueled by fossil fuels. Anyone who thinks electric cars are "saving the planet" or keeping the air and water clean isn't looking at the whole picture. THAT is what I'm concerned about; a lot more so than grid capacity. So far I've never seen a conclusive study on global CO2 and other pollutants if EVERY car is converted to EV. We need to study the cradle to grave effect of electrification, not just the immediate city streets that get cleaner air.
RoyJ 02/25/21 11:27pm Tow Vehicles
RE: The Future of Chryslers SRT Division

Depends on the vehicle. I just rented a BMW 530i last week. It had "M" badges all over it. It wasn't even a trim package really, just some badges. Other than the colorful badges it appeared to be a normal run of the mill 530i. It's marketing. They didn't need to call the fast Dodges SRT's or festoon the Z06 nomenclature on the high perf vettes. He!!, they stole that option code from the 1970 (first year I believe) Chevy Chevelle and possibly other models. And apparently marketing works, because people buy it. Yup, the M-Sport pkg needs to go. Waters down real M-cars. The SRT / Z06 / GT350 / GT500 / ZL1 though, at least they're putting in completely different powertrain, suspension, brakes. In fact, only the bare unibody is in common with lesser models. I'll let that slide, let's say it's paying homage to the originals.
RoyJ 02/24/21 01:41am Tow Vehicles
RE: The Future of Chryslers SRT Division

That's what Im saying, the AMG decals tacked onto regular cars ruins the real AMG cars....of which are very few left that are produced. Ah, gotcha. I agree, just like they shouldn't tack a "Z06 performance package" on to a regular Vette.
RoyJ 02/24/21 01:37am Tow Vehicles
RE: Light Japanese Trucks used as Tow Vehicles here

That Fuso is only a 3 Litre Diesel, these are 5.2 Diesels Fuso can go to 480hp, 2300lb ft of torque I don't doubt they can make that on a dyno, but unlikely to hold up at those power levels. Even the Euro tractors with twin/compound turbos need 15L+ to make those torque numbers reliably. I'd leave it stock, we buy Japanese for reliability afterall. Japanese very from 13 to 15 litres. top horsepower is 520hp I totally mis-read your message, I thought you meant the 5.2 diesel can go up to 480hp / 2300 lb-ft :S
RoyJ 02/24/21 01:34am Tow Vehicles
RE: The Future of Chryslers SRT Division

You guys may want to do your research. The AMG badge has been tacked onto just about ever Benz there is with no real performance difference. AMG used to be built in a separate factory. Now it's done in house which makes it very easy to ruin the brand. Look it up and tell me I'm completely wrong! Yes they may have a couple different motors, but the majority is just badges and some trim! Are you talking about real AMGs, or an "AMG performance pkg" offered on regular models? BMW has real M-cars, and M-sport Pkg, the latter is watered down. As far as I know, every real AMG car is a decent step-up in performance, mostly with unique engines. From the lowly C230 Kompressor, to the C36, the early NA E55, the supercharged variant, including hopped up Black Edition versions, the NA 6.2 V8, bi-turbo 5.5/4.0, the insane 4 cyl CLA450. Then the top dogs like bi-turbo V12s, the AMG-GT, and of course SLR. That's not even including all the chassis component differences. But if there is just a badge-job AMG I'd like to know about it.
RoyJ 02/22/21 11:08am Tow Vehicles
RE: Ford EV F-150 battery source in jeopardy .

A rock and a hard place - veto the decision, and it sets a very bad precedence for selling stolen property. Allow it to go through, SK may simply turn towards the Chinese and other large EV markets. In the end it'll only hurt electrification in the US, though upholds IP protection.
RoyJ 02/22/21 01:31am Tow Vehicles
RE: The Future of Chryslers SRT Division

Yeah, calling AMG / BMW M a "trim level" is pushing it. That's like calling GT500s, Z06/ZR1s trim levels. In fact, SRT is probably the most extreme "trim level" engineering. I've never seen a platform offered with both a 250hp V6 (early Challenger), and 840hp 9s 1/4 mile V8.
RoyJ 02/22/21 01:21am Tow Vehicles
RE: Light Japanese Trucks used as Tow Vehicles here

LOL.... then the bass boat crowd with 300 hp...21' bass boats running 90 mph to catch a 6 lb bass. Seriously tho LTL size trucking industry in the USA uses the newer gen one ton DRW trucks pulling at 35k-38k GCW and carrying 6500-7000 in the bed payloads. Moving up to a 450/4500 diesels cab/chassis can give the hauler a 8000-8500 lb on a custom haulers bed payload and 45k+ GCW. Or a 550/5500 diesels cab/chassis for 50k plus GCW and over 10k on the bed payloads. No need for a Japans trucks here in the USA to pull a RV trailer or a commercial trailer. We see very few Japans trucks around here but the few in operation are mostly fleet trucks. We have to admit the hotshot industry is a small slice of the HD pickup market. But yes, used that way they're very good at what they do. I think where the Japanese cabovers excel are expedition builds. If you get a 4x4, you can build a camper shell, and still have decent offroad performance. With a 1 ton pickup, unless you get a single cab, it gets too long. With Class 4 - 5, good luck without a serious lift and 40+ inch military tires.
RoyJ 02/22/21 01:17am Tow Vehicles
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