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RE: Will a 3/4 ton do
And this is where it all goes hay wire. We don't want to accept the ratings.
We want to challenge them and re-rate the ratings.
We want to decide which are valid and which are not.
Which ratings apply to our scenario and which can be ignored.
At some point it boils down to either you abide by them or you don't.
I undersrtand some are tax,ratings and registration ratings but in the end they all serve a purpose.
I don't believe your combo is going to explode if you exceed a rating.
However I firmly believe a combo that is within all of its ratings will ultimately be safer and out perform a combo that is within some of its ratings.
In the end 1500,2500,3500 SRW,3500 dually, MDT,HDT basically step up in performance ratings and capabilty.
Stick with all the parameters and your combo will be fine. Or you can Pick and choose the ones you like and pretend there is no ratings system.
It did serve a purpose at one point in time about half a century ago when the class system was created. However, the magical 10k GVWR got imbedded in many state laws as the toping point between commercial and personal vehicles so even if the US DOT and EPA were to alter the truck classes to increase class 2b or have it break away into its own class, there would still be many different state laws limiting it to 10k.
This the main reason why most 250/2500's are limited to 10k and many 350/3500s can have their GVWR altered free of charge through fleet services to 10k. GM actually just recently broke away from this 10k GVWR limitation on some of their 2500's and they are actually class three trucks just like the 3500's. They still offer 10k trucks for fleets, but have higher GVWR limits for those buying a 2500 for personal use.
Also, as Grit stated, it is not always black and white. There are many laws and limits that have grey areas. Take Texas prima facie speed limits(Transportation code 545.352). Even though a county road may have a posted speed limit of 55 mph, I can legally go up to 70 mph(65 at night) if it is safe to do so(ie little traffic, dry road, etc.). Many people and even police officers do not know about this law. So to many who are ignorant about the law and only look at things as black and white, they see the posted speed limit as being there for a reason and is the max safety limit when in reality it is not. The prima facia speed limit is. Same goes with the GVWR the manufacturer is forced to give the 2500 under 10k. It is not binding to the consumer in the eyes of the law, the registered GVWR is and you can even register your vehicles to exceed the manufacturers GVWR in many states.
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ShinerBock
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06/14/22 06:53am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Will a 3/4 ton do
Exactly and is more of OPs waiting for what they want to hear...
Selective adherence to ratings...even the most anti-rating advisors revere some ratings
Well, as I stated before, it depends on what is limiting the rating. If it is actually hard parts limiting the rating then I would be more inclined to abide by them. If it is half a century old laws and regulations(like truck class GVWR limits) forcing the limits then I am less inclined to abide by them and then refer to the limits of the hard parts. If I am ignorant to what the limiting factor is or I am not 100% sure then I generally abide by the rating and treat it like a hard part limitation.
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ShinerBock
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06/13/22 02:37pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Will a 3/4 ton do
What’s really funny and to share, while protecting the identity of the guilty, is one person, who fits the bill in the above category apparently, got so wound up over their position, or maybe my position which was contrary (and correct btw ;)) they cussed me out privately!
To that person and those like you, you should take a step back and if something like this thread causes you enough anger or frustration to lash out like you have turrets, then maybe find something else to do, as it’s not healthy for you to participate in this game!
Btw sorry _______. I only try to provide the best info for folks who are asking a question and admittedly aren’t well read. The collateral damage comes with choosing to dis spell the uninformed wrong answers, objectively and with fact, in an effort to steer the person with the honest question in the right direction.
WOW! I don't think I have ever been that into an online convo to cuss someone out in a PM. Don't get me wrong, I will post massive posts to prove my point(if I have nothing better to do at work) or if I feel I am right about something, but to spend the time to cuss someone out in a PM is on another level.
In regards to the previous comment about tires. I had a family member who bought a 3500 especially for the added payload rating over the 2500 and a week later put large 20" rims and tires that had a load rating about a thousand pounds less than the factory rims and tires which essentially made his truck a 2500 since the tires were the limiting factor.
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ShinerBock
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06/13/22 07:05am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Will a 3/4 ton do
Show me a truck that IS rated to tow 4 times its own weight.
Any DRW 3500 that's rated to tow 30k+ is pushing 10k empty these days. I'm talking about the bare truck fresh off the dealer lot. Puts you down in the mid 3's.
Now I'm going to blow your point clean out of the water: The only thing limiting a Class 8 truck is THE LAW. 80K is a legal limit. The truck is capable of far more. You can get overweight permits and tow at 102K gross easy. That gets you solidly into the "3's" with your Class 8 truck strawman. Far more is possible, all you need to do is pull the permit and have enough axles on the ground.
The Class 8 truck will do 4-5 times its own weight all day every day with a smile. A DRW 3500 at 4 times is going to start showing fatigue and wear quite early in its life.
https://www.ramtrucks.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/ramtrucks/en_us/towing/Ram_HD-3500-D2_Trailer-Tow-Weight-Chart_MY21.pdf
Page 7 of 9.
Ram 3500 DRW Regular Cab 4x2 with 8' bed
Base weight(according to Ram's Chart): 7,433 lbs
Max Trailer: 37,100 lbs
37,100/7,433= 4.99
https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/dam/aem_fleet/en_us/fleet/towing-guides/2022_Ford_RVandTrailerTowingGuide.pdf
page 30 of 53
Ford F450 DRW Regular Cab 4x2 with 8' bed
Base weight(according to Ford's website): 8,012 lbs
Max Trailer: 37,000 lbs
37,000/8,012= 4.62
https://es.chevrolet.com/content/dam/chevrolet/na/us/english/index/vehicle-groups/trailering-and-towing/trucks/02-pdfs/MY21%20Trailering%20Guide%20eBrochure%20v2.pdf
Page 37 of 46
Chevy 3500 DRW Regular Cab 4x2 with 8' bed
Base weight(according to GM's website): 7,469 lbs
Max Trailer: 36,000 lbs
36,000/7,469= 4.82
Also, I know class 8 trucks because I have worked in the heavy duty industry for over 20 years and my point being is that it is not always hard parts that limit a trucks actual capacities. Like class 8 is limited by laws and regulations, so is class 2b that most 2500 trucks are in that the OP was asking about. And also just like class 8 trucks, you can register a 3/4 ton to be able to carry more than the class 2b limit of 10k GVWR, but I would have to pay double the registration. Manufactures will continue to make class 2b HD trucks because fleets demand them so they don't have to pay added taxes/registration along with limited CDL requirements once you get past 10k GVWR(Class 3 and up).
So it is not the actual hard parts that is limiting 2500's these days. It is laws and regulations of class 2b trucks just like the laws and regulations that limit class 8 trucks.
And no, you will need a special truck to tow 4-5 times the weight. These are called heavy haul spec'ed trucks and they are heavier than your regular on highway tractor with a GCW of 80k due to the added pusher axles and other beefier components. We made a lot of these heavy haul trucks when I worked for Peterbilt/Kenworth, and also made engine for them when I worked at Cummins. Now we sell them at my current company.
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ShinerBock
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06/10/22 12:12pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Will a 3/4 ton do
Only in the RVnet forum would we boast about our favorite brand’s 3500 DRW being rated to tow more than 4 times its weight yet freak out when someone asks about an 8k lb HD 2500 truck towing 1.75 times its weight.
DUDE, don't you know the HIPS make all the difference???????
No other class of truck is rated to tow more than 4 times it's weight even those with double "hips" like the 25k lb class 8 semi that is maxed out towing 55k lbs (GCW 80k). That is only 2.2 times it's weight. Those must be some super special "hips" to allow it to tow more than 4 times it's weight yet a 2500 not able to tow less than 2 times it's weight or a class 8 truck only able to tow less than 2.5 times it's weight.
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ShinerBock
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06/10/22 06:51am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Will a 3/4 ton do
Only in the RVnet forum would we boast about our favorite brand’s 3500 DRW being rated to tow more than 4 times its weight yet freak out when someone asks about an 8k lb HD 2500 truck towing 1.75 times its weight.
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ShinerBock
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06/09/22 12:27pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Will a 3/4 ton do
If you are person that feels that they have to be within all of the manufacturers numbers even though they are not legally binding to you and are only for the manufacturer to be within outdated US highway truck classes and emissions regulations, then get the 1 ton. If you are not one of these types and have enough common sense and experience to not need stickers like "Do not touch engine fan while engine is on", then any of the current 3/4 tons(which are terms that are outdated as the truck classes) will be fine for a 14k trailer.
I have been pulling a 5th wheel around that weight since I bought my truck new in 2014. I have never felt unsafe, unstable, or any of the other things that these weight police alarmist are telling you what will happen. It only squatted about .5 inch more than a family members 3500 of the same model which is about right seeing that my rear axle weight rating was only 500 lbs less than his while my front axle rating was exactly the same.
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ShinerBock
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06/09/22 08:21am |
Tow Vehicles
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