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RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

Your claim that v engines require more cooling capacity than inline engines is confusing me. I might believe that heat management in a V engine is more involved. I can see why a v engine might tend to run a little hotter (which could mean less demand on the cooling system). What exactly do you mean saying a V engine require more cooling. Are you simply meaning that the greater surface area of an inline engine can radiate a little more heat directly into the engine compartment vs a more compact v engine? I think you might be on to something regarding the difference in the engine compartment. My father in law just came by to pick up a trailer and I looked at the engine bay of his F350 versus mine. I took that plastic upper piece off of mine a few years ago. Without it, you can get a better look at both sides of the engine. The driver side has a ton of room between the block and wheel well. I can literally stick a soccer ball or maybe even a basketball between there. The passenger side has the turbo so there is less room, but still has a lot of daylight. My father in laws truck was the complete opposite. I was hard to see daylight from either the top or bottom. So maybe it does have to do with more air circulation under the hood being able to removing heat off the longer and thinner block. How much of a difference that makes? Not sure. EDIT: I was easily able to fit a regulation sized football between the block and fender well long ways (11 inches). https://i.postimg.cc/6Qpd2dQK/Engine-bay.png height=500 width=475
ShinerBock 12/16/20 02:29pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

Your claim that v engines require more cooling capacity than inline engines is confusing me. I might believe that heat management in a V engine is more involved. I can see why a v engine might tend to run a little hotter (which could mean less demand on the cooling system). What exactly do you mean saying a V engine require more cooling. Are you simply meaning that the greater surface area of an inline engine can radiate a little more heat directly into the engine compartment vs a more compact v engine? It's actually not a claim. It is the truth according the PB/KW/PACCAR engineers and is one of the reasons why engines CAT 3408 or Detroit 8V92 is no longer around in the class 7-8 trucks anymore. The cooling system requirements were greater than the comparable inline 6 engines and added more weight which is a hot commodity on a commercial truck. The other main reason was that it was a fuel hog. As far as the exact or scientific reasons why V engines tend to run hotter, I have am not 100% sure. I would still check that cap and the system for boost leaks.
ShinerBock 12/16/20 12:54pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

That is a cool pic. I am not certain how the ECM determines when to defuel to keep your engine from melting down but my suspicion is that your not making 385 hp on a 100 degree day pulling a long steep grade. Shiner can probably set me straight here. I think safe temperatures are controlled based on things like charge air temp, boost pressure, rpm and the amount of fuel being injected. (Basically EGT can be calculated without being directly measured). So it is likely that defueling occurs based on indirectly measured EGTs. Because the engine defuels on long hard pulls in hot weather the radiator is not being taxed the way it would if the engine was able to put out its full power all the way up the hill. I would be very interested in knowing what it takes to get these trucks to defuel on a long hard pull in 100 degree heat. I think when our pickups defuel it might not be that apparent ...we don’t feel a sudden power loss ... rather the power tapers off. (Im not aware of a time that my pickup defueled but then I’ve never pulled a long steep hill in 100 degree temps) I’ve never witnessed my Peterbilt defuel on account of EGTs ... The 15 litre engine will put out 550 hp and pull like a freight train until the coolant gets hot. At 220 degrees a red light comes on but there is no reduction in power. I believe it’s 230 degrees where the engine light comes on and the power is suddenly and severely backed off till the coolant drops back down to 220. (It very seldom happens that 230 degrees is reached but 220 is fairly common) 1) There are many variables that cause an engine to defuel, not just EGT's. On a 100F day, he might be closer to 360 hp depending. 2) Not all engine are designed the same and may have different cooling needs especially V engines that generally run hotter and need more cooling capacity than inline designs. Even with two I6 engines, you may have slightly different cooling needs depending on whether it is a closed/semi/open deck design. Diesels generally have a closed deck. 3) When was the last time you replaced or checked the pressure on your radiator cap? If it has been on there for a while and lost it's holding pressure, then it will cause the engine to run hotter under heavy load like that. It is probably a 16 lb cap. Adding 16 lbs of pressure to the system raises the boiling point of water from 212F to 260F. For every 1 lb in pressure that is lost, due to the cap wearing out over time, that boiling point drops by 3F. I would also recommended a boost leak test if you haven't done one in a while. Boost leaks cause higher EGT's which will cause the engine to run hotter under load.
ShinerBock 12/16/20 09:54am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

I will say that the Denso HP3 and HP4 pumps are not without their flaws either. We have had some failures on them as well in the Hino(Toyota) medium duty diesel trucks. There are even a few TSB's out for them. The reason why most probably don't here about them is because Denso does not have that big of a market share especially in the personal vehicle market. Even on the commercial side, diesels powered by Denso fuel systems is very small. I think people need to understand that these pumps are pumping at very high pressures. Just as with horsepower, the higher you go, the likelihood of component failure increases as well. For all you wanting and bragging about more stock short burst power, this is what you get because the manufacturers have to increase pressure every time they have a major power increase in order to stay emissions legal. You can't have your cake and eat it too. As with VG turbos and other components, you are starting to sacrifice reliability for the pursuit of more power on engines that also have to meet emissions. Hence the reason why I would rather the engine makes have lower power, but use more reliable parts. I can easily add power after the fact that will make the truck more reliable by ditching things like electronically controlled VG turbos and so on that are less reliable than their mechanical counterparts.
ShinerBock 12/15/20 09:54am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

"however pump failures are less common in Canada" What do you base that on? I would have to ask the same too. You would have to at least have total failures data versus total diesels with said pump sold both countries which I don't know how someone would have. If it is based on the factor of just not seeing as many failures in Canada over the US, one would have to also consider the diesel truck sales volume of each country. I know that Texas and California diesel fuel regulations are better than the US standard, but I don't know much about the Canadian standard. I would have to look at and compare the scar and lubricity ratings for both.
ShinerBock 12/15/20 09:28am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

WOW..... almost 15 pages of this banter back and forth !:S Lots of banter for sure! With most forum sections being slow, tow vehicles still keeps somewhat active. I still read much of this back/forth, and have to say, that Shiner has a lot of knowledge to share, and shares it in a respectable way. Just my observation, not taking anyone's side of the issues. Jerry TRUE Jerry, I have always looked at BOTH shiner and 4ford, and MANY others here as A lot more knowledgeable than I .. It IS interesting to read each post... Thank you both! The only reason why I know a thing or two about this stuff is because it has been apart of my profession for the past 25 or so years. I am 100% certain that if I stepped into your world and what you did as your life's profession, I would be learning a whole lot of information that I didn't know from the both of you.
ShinerBock 12/14/20 12:31pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

Designing and manufacturing a fuel system is a lot more complicated than most think. Not only dos the R&D cost a lot of money, but so does the certifications/standards required. Since it is an emissions component or system, you have to attain and/or abide by many different certifications/standards wherever you sell an engine with this system. These certifications/standards will change from one region or country to the next, and a lot of it is more political than environmental. Then you also have more liability as well. This is a major reason why almost all(if not all) diesel engine manufacturers from BMW to Cummins don't make their own fuel systems. It is not just a diesel thing either, most HPFP fuel systems on the direct injected gas engines are made by Bosch or other suppliers as well.
ShinerBock 12/14/20 08:29am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

And the passive aggressive kindergarten "mine is better than your" jabs continue. Why even bother to say "sorry Shiner" when you know you aren't.
ShinerBock 12/13/20 06:45pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

Huckleberry, Just a response to your statement a while back and your comment that cummins let's the other manufactures work out the kinks before they jump on board type of excuse. And no problem as I can provide responses to those types of statements as well as cummins has some kinks to work out for themselves right now. F Yes, but you cherry picked my statement to suit your predetermined narrative to throw rocks to make this into a brand thing when it isn't. That is the difference between you and I. For you it is always about your favorite brand versus brand another and you think that others think the same way when they don't. Just like the grouping thing from earlier in this thread where you were thinking that I meant something that wasn't even the case. I don't purposely go out of my way in threads about a Powerstroke just to pi$$ on someone else's engine choice and say mine is better than yours like a 6 year old would. And yes, I think Cummins owners are being childish when they do it in PSD/Dmax threads as well. BTW, I just want to state here that I grouped PSD and Dmax together because I own a Cummins. I would have grouped the CTD and PSD together if I owned a Duramax or Dmax and CTD together if I owned a Powerstroke. I don't want you to inject your brand warfare way of thinking into my statements again. The last I checked this thread has nothing to do with a Power Stroke and a Duramax. My interest originally was the news of more power from cummins and for me it's no surprise, but couldn't put the blind folds on the other bs and yes I will continue to call people out like I've done so many times on this forum. Exactly, this thread had nothing to do with Powerstroke yet some PSD owners found a way to bring it in so I called it out just like you would..... looking at 4x4Ford.
ShinerBock 12/13/20 01:51pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

Why don’t they design and manufacture their own fuel system .... or at least pump? Do you really know what that entails and how much it would cost? There is a reason why all three opt to get their pumps from suppliers rather than making the fuel system themselves. In fact, most of the stuff on the engine comes from suppliers. The same goes for all three. Take the Powerstroke for instance, Ford may make the block and many of the other hard parts in their foundry in Mexico, but the pistons likely comes from Mahle. The ECM probably still comes from Continental. The fuel system comes from Bosch. The turbo has come from different suppliers over the years like Garret or Borg-Warner. Same goes for the Cummins except that Cummins owns its own turbo manufacturer, Holset. I have no idea what it would cost. Apparently too much for a little company like Cummins. Maybe Ford will have to step up to the plate and show them how it’s done.:) Seriously, why the constant passive aggressive jabs and pi$$ing on other people's engine choice? You guys act like my brother's vindictive ex-wife who always had to get her jabs in with every statement. And statements like this is the reason I call BS when you say you are not a fanboy or bias toward certain brands.
ShinerBock 12/13/20 11:23am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

Huckleberry, Just a response to your statement a while back and your comment that cummins let's the other manufactures work out the kinks before they jump on board type of excuse. And no problem as I can provide responses to those types of statements as well as cummins has some kinks to work out for themselves right now. F Yes, but you cherry picked my statement to suit your predetermined narrative to throw rocks to make this into a brand thing when it isn't. That is the difference between you and I. For you it is always about your favorite brand versus another brand and you think that others think the same way when they don't. Just like the grouping thing from earlier in this thread where you were thinking that I meant something that wasn't even the case. I don't purposely go out of my way in threads about a Powerstroke just to pi$$ on someone else's engine choice and say mine is better than yours like a 6 year old would. And yes, I think Cummins owners are being childish when they do it in PSD/Dmax threads as well. BTW, I just want to state here that I grouped PSD and Dmax together because I own a Cummins. I would have grouped the CTD and PSD together if I owned a Duramax or Dmax and CTD together if I owned a Powerstroke. I don't want you to inject your brand warfare way of thinking into my statements again.
ShinerBock 12/13/20 11:01am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

Why don’t they design and manufacture their own fuel system .... or at least pump? Do you really know what that entails and how much it would cost? There is a reason why all three opt to get their pumps from suppliers rather than making the fuel system themselves. In fact, most of the stuff on the engine comes from suppliers. The same goes for all three. Take the Powerstroke for instance, Ford may make the block and many of the other hard parts in their foundry in Mexico, but the pistons likely comes from Mahle. The ECM probably still comes from Continental. The fuel system comes from Bosch. The turbo has come from different suppliers over the years like Garret or Borg-Warner. Same goes for the Cummins except that Cummins owns its own turbo manufacturer, Holset.
ShinerBock 12/13/20 09:56am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

Yes, the Cummins 6.7L is in MANY more applications than just the Ram pickups. We just bought a new sweeper at my work and guess what, it is powered by a Cummins 6.7L just like one of our other sweepers is, along with many of our standby generators, as well as some of our older Ford F-650's. They all get worked hard and all have been extremely reliable. Are any of them 2019/2020 models? A few months ago Shiner reported here that Cummins is late to the game with updates because they thoroughly test their product before making changes in which I got a eyebrow raise event. Link Yes and no. I said Cummins generally doesn't make changes to new parts until they have thoroughly tested or are forced to due to having to meet new or future emissions regulations. The CP4 is a case of the later and also since Bosch will not be making new CP3's anymore so they kind of don't have a choice regardless. We can hardly buy new CP3's from our suppliers like Diesel Forward and so on. They are still available in inventories, but new pumps are not being produced, only reman. However, if your point is to turn this into "find every youtube video or link of the others person truck", then I will be your huckleberry cause I can guarantee that I can find a lot on your favorite brand.....
ShinerBock 12/13/20 09:32am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

We now know that the '17 truck was slower due to transmission gear selection/gearing. It was slow from the start so defueling was not the issue like you were mentioning back then. Right. Is that the same thing that happened in 2018 when they towed 28.5k on the same day(in hotter weather than 30F)? Rated at 65 more horsepower, the 450 hp PSD that got 11:43 should have mopped the floor with the 385 hp Cummins that got 11:41. 2018 Ram 3500 HD vs 2018 Ford F350 vs World’s Toughest XXL Towing Test (Video) Like I said, tow the same trailer in the same condition at temps above 60F or 80F and those high power levels cannot be sustained like they can in 30F. Although the 2020 does have the edge with the 10-speed. EDIT: Although I will say that a trans not holding gears or shifting too much is a good indicator that the engine is defueling. Yeah it's the same thing when the 2015 Ram fan kicked on at (19:20) when pulling a load but the other brands didn't. So I guess since the rams fan kicked on, and with slower times it must have defueled. Who would have thought...LOL Link Exactly, that is just what I have been stating. All modern computer controlled diesel engines have parameters to defuel the engine if different temps get too hot or things like turbo speeds get too fast. Some more than others or at different temps than others. For example, I can pull a load at a high power level in the morning with the Texas winter temps at 40F, but later in the day when the temps get up to 75F I may not be able to hold the same power level. If you read my posts in this thread, nowhere did I ever state that it is just the Powerstroke that has to defuel. This is not a brand bias thing. So I am not sure why the LOL.....
ShinerBock 12/12/20 09:03am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

It could be that Cummins sells lots of engines but I know that in days past (prior to emissions) the Cat was considered a far more reliable engine than the Cummins and in more recent years the Detroit is considered much more reliable than the Cummins. The 6.7 seems to be a good engine but I'm not aware of anything special about it. Shiner I'm not suggesting there is not more to it than size of cooling system components but when the engine that is proving to be more efficient (ie the Ike run demonstrated that the Ford used less fuel to climb the hill than the Ram) also has a greater capacity for cooling you've got to recognize there is a good chance that the Ford can sustain significantly more power than the Ram can on a hot day. Again, look at the details and stop making assumptions. The reason why Cat was more reliable was because unlike Cummins who didn't want to design an engine twice, they only designed (or basically retrofitted) their engine to just meet the 2007 emissions and would have a to redesign the engine even further in 2010. This was going to cost a lot of money so they decided to exit the market and focus on equipment which had lower emissions standards and they made more money on. Detroit did something similar and also used carbon credits earned from other areas in Daimler Group to keep their old design for a few more years. Cummins on the other hand, since it does not have a parent company to give them carbon credits and only make engines so they can't just up and leave the market for another industry, made the decision to meet 2010 emissions in 2007 so they only had to design the engine once. As with any new technology, this had a lot of growing pains until it can be perfected. Detroit finally ran out of credits meaning they would have to finally redesign their engine which had a lot of growing pains as well. All while Cummins already came out of these growing pains and started to make their units with more power and reliability. In regards to seeming more reliable, and actually being more reliable. That again is an opinion unless you actually have the repair/downtime data. I can't even make a statement saying that Cummins is more reliable than others because I don't have all of the data. If you do then please share because I would love to look at it. I am just kidding, I know you don't and are just saying so for biased reason and want to put in a passive aggressive dig on Cummins. And again, you are making an assumption based on cooling capacities without knowing the cooling requirements of each engine which will not be the same. Why do you keep posting this passive aggressive BS in a thread about a Cummins engine? You already stated that you would never buy one and think they are not a good engine so why continue to dog on other people's engine choices? What is your agenda here?
ShinerBock 12/12/20 08:44am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

It really isn’t about favourite brand truck for me. I realize that had Ram not stuck the 5.9 Cummins under its hood back in 89 we might not have seen the Duramax. Had we not seen the Duramax or the Cummins in Ram and Chevy who knows what Ford would be trying to pass off as a diesel in their pickup. So I really appreciate what competition amongst the three has done. I am not impressed with Cummins in the big truck arena where the newer Cummins engines are referred to as boat anchors.... that might prevent me from placing the 6.7 Cummins on a pedestal like many Ram guys do. I am kind of placing the Powerstroke on a pedestal, not because it’s Ford, but because I believe the 6.7 Powerstroke has almost done for the pickups what the 5.9 Cummins did in the 90s and the Duramax did in the 2000s. It was first to introduce the compacted iron block, Ford was bold enough to incorporate reverse flow heads, they are first to have steel pistons. I believe the Powerstroke has raised the bar as far as cooling is concerned. Until I looked into it in the last few days I didn’t realize how large the radiator and charge air radiator were on the Ford. There is a huge difference in the physical size of cooling system components between the Ram and Ford. (Unless Ram has very recently upgraded?). The heat soaking is not going to be an issue when the intercooler has its own radiator.... and the secondary radiator is significantly larger than the air to air on the Ram. The Ford primary radiator has double the surface area as the Ram rad. With steel pistons Ford might even be allowing hotter egts than they did in the past. The 2020 Ford might not defuel as much as you think on a hot day, In the big truck arena, Cummins actually sales a lot more and has a lot larger market share than the others by far. Especially for our customers looking for high horsepower for their application. These are not based on my beliefs or opinions either. They are based on sales data provided by HDAA along with sales data from our 130+ medium and heavy duty dealerships. So don't confuse your bias opinions as facts. I will also say that the 6.7L Cummins has been the highest selling engine in medium duty truck and buses since it has been out. Mainly because it makes more sustained and rated power than the other engines, like the 6.7L Powerstroke, in these applications. You still have a lot to learn about engines. For one, it is not just how big their cooling system is, but also how cool the incoming air is, how quickly it can move that air through the system, and how much of that heat is retained. That is different between each engine along with intake and emissions system design. One design may get hot enough to need things like steel pistons while another may not. One design may have a more restrictive turbine housing on their turbo for quicker spool causing higher EGT's while another may not. It is not as simple as you think it is and one system can be effected by multiple systems so basing assumptions off of the specs of one system is only telling part of the story. For example, due to the reverse flow design of the 6.7L Powerstroke, it may need that larger cooling system to accommodate for the high localized heat on the upper portion of the engine like the heads. Or, also due to the reverse flow design, you may have a more restricting intake manifold like some of the earlier 6.7L did to to fit the 6.7L in the engine bay. This restriction will cause higher EGT's. Then there is the engine design itself. Certain engine design generally run hotter than others. I will say, that heat and cooling system requirements/design is one the reasons why V8 engines like the Cat 3408 never made it in the heavy duty truck industry and it is dominated by inline engines. Same with larger generators. The inline systems do not require as big of a cooling system to keep them cool. So just saying that one engine is better based on cooling capacity is really an ignorant way of looking at it. Also, heat soaking is an issue on all water cooled intercoolers under sustained loads regardless of whether or not they have their own cooling system. The benefits of a water cooled system is better short burst power like in drag racing/tractor pulls or posting high power numbers on the dyno.
ShinerBock 12/12/20 07:46am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

Now imagine each tune going up the Ike at 80F. What would happen? Would I need to back down the 400 rwhp heavy tow tune? No, and I could not back it down even further even if I had to. Would I need to back down the 475 rwhp tune? Yes, I would probably have to back it down to my 400 rwhp heavy tow tune shortly after starting. I may be able to utilize the the 475 rwhp on the onramp at the start of the test to get a good 30-60 mph head start, but I would eventually have to back it down to my 400 rwhp as temps got hot. Now, will the times of my 400 rwhp tune at both temps change that much? How about my 475 rwhp tune will it's time change that much between the two temps? I’m not sure what you’re trying to say .... if you ran your 400 rwhp tune up the Ike with 30000 lbs in tow on an 80 degree day vs a 30 degree day, do you think your times would change much? Not nearly as much as it would versus running the 375 hp tuned engine at 30F and then having to back down to 400 rwhp at 80F run. I am not trying to bash your favorite truck or anyone else's Super duty. I am just saying that from my experiences and knowledge of electronically controlled diesels, the high power rated engines generally back down to the same power levels as the lower power rated units under sustained loads. A plus for the Powerstroke is that unloaded or loaded with really cold temps, it will be quicker since the Cummins(even though it is the slightly bigger engine) cannot make more than 400 hp do to the max amount of fuel allowed in it's tuning. The PSD can make up to 475 hp due to a higher amount of fuel allowed in its tuning. However, that changes as temps rise. The Cummins is already at the conservative safe limits while the PSD will have to decrease its fuel to get to safer limits. Tuned and deleted, the Powerstroke and Cummins make about the same amount of horsepower at the wheels which is roughly around 525 hp (@ 600hp at the crank). They both have the same fuel pump now and deliver the same volume of fuel, but both are limited by their turbo. The CP4 can get you up to around 600 rwhp until you start running out of fuel. The older CP3 on the Cummins was able to pump more volume of fuel and limit out around 700 rwhp. Change the turbo on either engine(like I did) and you will more hp and/or be able to run the same hp at safer temps. The new L5P Duramax tuned and deleted, can get up to around 550 rwhp deleted, again due to it's turbo and intake design.
ShinerBock 12/12/20 04:48am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

I realize that altitude, ambient temperature, barometric pressure and humidity make a difference to power output and that goes for both Ford and Ram. You claim at warmer temperatures, say 80 degrees, the Ram might make more HP than the Ford .... maybe, but why? I am saying I am not aware of a reason, are you? Like I said it seems reasonable to me to expect the more efficient engine with a larger cooling capacity to make more HP at hotter temperatures, especially when it has already proved to make more hp at lower temperatures. Let's take the brand bias out of the equation here and think about what would happen to my truck running its 475 rwhp tune versus the heavy tow 400 rwhp tune. In very cold 30F temps going up the Ike, my truck can probably sustain the 475 rwhp tune or at least more horsepower that the 400 rwhp tune. Remember, the 400 rwhp tune is just that. It is tuned conservatively for a reason and will not inject more fuel to make more power than that now matter how well it can sustain that power. Adversely, the 475 rwhp tune will inject more fuel to make more power allowing it to go up the hill much faster. Now imagine each tune going up the Ike at 80F. What would happen? Would I need to back down the 400 rwhp heavy tow tune? No, and I could not back it down even further even if I had to. Would I need to back down the 475 rwhp tune? Yes, I would probably have to back it down to my 400 rwhp heavy tow tune shortly after starting. I may be able to utilize the the 475 rwhp on the onramp at the start of the test to get a good 30-60 mph head start, but I would eventually have to back it down to my 400 rwhp as temps got hot. Now, will the times of my 400 rwhp tune at both temps change that much? How about my 475 rwhp tune will it's time change that much between the two temps? I would also not be soo sure about the larger cooling capacity thing. For one, the Superduty has two separate cooling systems, one for the main cooling system that cools the engine, EGR cooler, and so on. The other is for the water to air intercooler which these types of intercoolers tend to get heat soaked under sustained loads very quickly. I know with my truck towing the cattle trailer or tractor between properties versus my father in laws 2019 F350, his fan will kick on way before mine will. Sometimes, mine does even need to kick on while his has already kicked on half way through the trip.
ShinerBock 12/11/20 06:45am Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

I realize that you believe the Powerstroke will defuel more than the Cummins, maybe your right ... but there is certainly reason to think the Powerstroke will always be making more power than the Cummins. According to TFL the Powerstroke made it to the top of the hill on less fuel than the Ram. The extra fuel that the Ram used was lost as heat through its cooling system and/or out the tailpipe. Because the Powerstroke is more efficient it would require less cooling to make an equal amount of power. Unless Ram has very recently increased the capacity of its cooling system I believe the Ford has a significantly greater potential for cooling between its radiators and charge air cooling system. So although it is possible that the Ford will defuel more than the Cummins does on an 80 degree day, I'm not aware of any reason to expect there to be an outside temperature where the Ram would make equal power to the Ford. It really would be interesting to see how warm the outside air temperature could get before the trucks start defueling. Given your knowledge and assumptions of vehicles thus far, I can see how you wouldn't be aware of a reason. Because to you, things like ambient temperature, air density, barometric pressure, humidity, and so on have no effect on an engines power output, and you believe that an engine should make the same power at 10k ft that it does at sea level.
ShinerBock 12/10/20 07:06pm Tow Vehicles
RE: 2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

We now know that the '17 truck was slower due to transmission gear selection/gearing. It was slow from the start so defueling was not the issue like you were mentioning back then. Right. Is that the same thing that happened in 2018 when they towed 28.5k on the same day(in hotter weather than 30F)? Rated at 65 more horsepower, the 450 hp PSD that got 11:43 should have mopped the floor with the 385 hp Cummins that got 11:41. 2018 Ram 3500 HD vs 2018 Ford F350 vs World’s Toughest XXL Towing Test (Video) Like I said, tow the same trailer in the same condition at temps above 60F or 80F and those high power levels cannot be sustained like they can in 30F. Although the 2020 does have the edge with the 10-speed. EDIT: Although I will say that a trans not holding gears or shifting too much is a good indicator that the engine is defueling.
ShinerBock 12/10/20 06:58pm Tow Vehicles
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