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RE: SiO2 Batteries and High Amp Draws

StirCrazy, you are right about the cost etc. And LFPs do better for high draws. I got sort of sucked in--sad tale of woe follows: I got one for the camper when the scenario was to be 1 day trips to local dog things so DW has her own hideaway and bathroom. (Class C too big for that job) and I wanted the MW to work for her off the inverter. At the time the 100AH SiO2 was $700 and a 100AH drop-in LFP was $1400. (They still are around here!) Then DW said the new plan was to use the camper for weekend dog things so 100AH was not enough. Goal posts moved. Oh well. So I decided I was stuck with having to get more battery and it had to be the same type (perhaps wrong on that, don't know). So got a second SiO2 for $500 this time on sale. (They must have wanted to unload some inventory before Xmas maybe) So now that is 200AH for $1200 vs 100AH for $1400.(200AH for $2800 yipes!) I also stole a solar panel off the Class C for the camper. But now with 200AH bank the 55 amp draw of the MW could have been done by ordinary AGMs. 200AH AGMs about $500 then (700 now) Drat. Water under the bridge and I do get to use the kettle at 90 amps as reported. That other guy on here wanted to start an SiO2 club, but there was no T-shirt so I didn't join. Maybe it was really a "support group" :) haha, weird that they are so expensive there for LFP. you had to order the Sio2 and just doing a quick search a drop in bought online from alberta lithium is 550ish this one but ya it makes sence if you alreay had one to get another , after all what are you going to do, throw it out. Steve
StirCrazy 05/22/22 08:12am Tech Issues
RE: SiO2 Batteries and High Amp Draws

They say you can run them down to Zero SOC many times no problem, but I have seen ads for AGMs saying the same thing. So you can run them down past what would trip the inverter to just run ordinary low amp RV loads ok The voltage drop is also from wiring not just from the batteries, so if I had fatter wiring and all that, the inverter could go lower in battery SOC before tripping, so my result could be different from another guy's with the same battery I count the "0.45C" as using the C at the time, not the rated C when at 100% SOC, so watch for that when reading my numbers. Eg the 90 amps when the 200AH bank is at 110AH is 90/110 = 82% draw the way I do it. I only took it to the inverter alarm at 11v not to the cut off at 10.5v so I don't know how much farther down in SOC it would go to get to 10.5 They have a somewhat higher voltage per SOC than Flooded batts so that helps with going lower in SOC before tripping the inverter too. ya they say you can ocasionaly run them down to 0, but for maximum life stay above 50%. I do like this as it is a saftey net for the average person that kills batteries by acadently letting them get down to 0. but I have to be honest , I am not that impressed with the current draw you got on them. yes it is the same as the four, 6V I have in my 5th wheel, maybe a tiny bit better, but two 100amp LFP will handle the same voltage and stay above 12V to aproximatly 10% capacity so I don't see an advantage there against LFP, but ya it is definatly a step up from normal batteries. there is a place for SiO2, but I think there price now puts them out of reach for most, aside for the people who actualy do need them like PT, but even there he has been saving for 3 years. I think they are now the most expensive per AH of the main battery types, last time I checked. I guess the way I look at these, and yes I did look at them and weigh the pros and cons when PT first started advertising them. I looked at upgrading to them but the only advantage I would have got is the cold weather usability and a slightly higher amp draw capacity. at almost 700 bucks per 100 AH battery x 4 it was just way to far out of my price range. I thought about them again when I went to upgrade the camper so I would have paid 1400 buck for 200ah capacity and to get maximum life I could use 100AH of that capacity so no gain over the cheep GC2 i stuffed in there as a temp measure. I ended up going with 300AH of LFP with a 100Amp BMS. I didnt need anymore amp draw capacity , there was an option for a 125amp or a 150amp BMS. but in the camper I am also worried about weight and size so about 1000 bucks I did the new camper setup. but like I said if weight , size are not a concern and you do really cold weather camping its a option.
StirCrazy 05/21/22 09:44am Tech Issues
RE: Is there an Air Conditioner using Inverter Compressor

Semi tractors with Split system air? Just google it. here, for example is a link to a you tube video on the installation. https://youtu.be/GUQAj7dTsSo Not sure where the link takes you. I see some yeahwho cobbling some snot together in his yard. I know my experience is a decade out of date, but when I retired 3 major options; A)Sleep where idle restrictions did not apply/where not enforced, idle engine.(My choice) B)Add a Auxiliary Power Unit, which is a small diesel engine that powers a second AC compressor and a second alternator. I think all also have inverter to power high voltage loads. (If had not retired, my old Pete would have got this upgrade) C)New trucks could be optioned with a AC unit that was advertised to maintain cab temp for 10 hours on power stored while working the truck. Now I'm not at all opposed to DIY, but if, like you say, he has to idle his engine to run the AC, what has he gained? To talk about the RV world; I often read "solar will take care of all power needs, unless I need AC. IMHO, a ICE powering the AC compressor directly instead of a genset might make more sense. Idle engins, APU (still a engin running and so on. I have a few friends who retired from the military and are trucking.. the lack of maintenance or cheepness of the companies boil down to the apu's are not installed or seldom work. when I pick them up for visits as they are passing through almost every truck at the truck stop is still running. I am aware there are other means aside from running the truck but they are seldome used. could we do it in an rv? hell ya but people whine about the cost of a second battery, how about that 5th or 6th I was looking into this option a few years ago but decided against it as I would have to tow a trailer around with fold out solar and a huge battery bank as I would need to run it 24/7 if I camped around home in the summer.. the most efficient one I found was about 78amps at half speed. and full speed was comparable to what we already have when you convert the wattage, just 12V is easier to tie into a system. what I decided to do instead is camp elsewhere out of this desart I call home and go to higher elavations, west coast or a different provence, and camp with the camper more in the spring and fall. the 5th wheel if we need to stay around this area we just get a place where we can plug in so the dog has AC if he isnt with us and we can sleep at night.
StirCrazy 05/18/22 06:36pm General RVing Issues
RE: Lifepo4 float setting?

"I never mentioned any spicific vendor", Here is what you said. Me: I got that from the Solacity guy. You: ya that is how a lot of the misconceptions around here got started. prople taking a sales pitch as gospel To prove your knowledge that something is a misconception, you need to show your own measurements or a link to somebody else's. that all you go out of that whole thing... and if you re read it again, maybe a little slower this time i didnt mention solacity you did, and I simply said genericaly thats how a lot of the misconceptions and yaddy dah..... sales blurbs are not data they are created to enhance certien areas of somthing your trying to sell and are very bias towards what they want to sell. a lot of time venders don't have a clue and they actualy make things up to sound important also. ran into that at a store here in town... guy knew nothing about solar panels except if he sold one he made x amount of bucks. this is why so many companies get taken to court for false advertising. If I have to prove my knowlage, wouldn't it be easier just to link my university courses and marks.... or I could maybe just find some off th wall sale pitch that matches what I want to say I guess...... sounds more like a childish game of who's the kind of the castle to me... anyways theres a more interesting thread " thinking of getting a longer trailer" that I am going to go read....:R
StirCrazy 05/16/22 06:32am Tech Issues
RE: Is there an Air Conditioner using Inverter Compressor

The only possibly downfall that I am currently seeing is the inability to cool multiple rooms. My camper has a rear bunkhouse and a front master bedroom. With the doors closed for privacy/light, it would prevent the even flow of conditioned air. Putting a cassette in those areas would take a LOT of space and would be overwhelming cooling/heating power in such a small area. There are ducted mini-splits available - Could be mounted in an overhead cabinet, with the ducting routed along the back side of adjacent cabinets. Some of the ceiling cassettes also have knock-outs for running small ducts to other areas. and pretty power hungry, 105Amps at 12V on max. That's "only" 1260 watts - Not much different from a typical 120V unit. One problem with 12V units is that the high amperage requires thick wire, and introduces electrical losses. If you have a long wire wire run between the unit and your batteries, you might actually get less loss by using an inverter with a 120 volt model instead - even taking into account the conversion losses inside the inverter. thats what I was talking about bigger wiring huge battery bank and so on. they are made for big rigs that are ideling all the time now to run off an adverage rv when boon docking. if you use a 120V model now you have inverter inefficencies to worry about also which is even a larger draw.
StirCrazy 05/16/22 06:21am General RVing Issues
RE: Gas fridge on the move?

I have read adding some fiberglass batting from a home furnace air filter to the inside of the lower vent will reduce wind buffeting when at speed. thats one thing I am looking at trying in june. I am going to actualy put a furnace filter inside the louvers and see what difference that makes. Some people speculate that it is coming from the top vent down also.. so I have to take a look at that end also. Steve
StirCrazy 05/16/22 06:17am Truck Campers
RE: Lifepo4 float setting?

StirCrazy if your claim is that the Solacity guy's info is just a sales pitch with wrong info about LFPs, it is your job to provide links to the correct, more credible, version of that information to prove your claim. So let's see some graphs and tables you LFP guys have made from your measurements and indicate how you got those numbers so they can be peer reviewed here by guys who can see if your results are credible. I never mentioned any spicific vendor, and like I said a lot are getting better now. would be nice if you included the original quote in your replies so the whole context is there. and you'll never see me make a graph on the preformance of my GC2 batteries or My LiFePO4 bank as I just don't care enough to get that geeked out on them. I don't need a graph to tell me that just switching the batteries and profiles on my charger cut two hours off a 100% charge that used to take 6 hours. they work, I know how and thats whats important. I don't play around with partial charges, I charge to 100% then float at 13.6, when there is a float. when I come home I run them down to under 90% and unplug them... I figure i'll die before they do, or at least I won't be able to rv anymore by then so I don't care about getting 8000 cycles instead of the 3500. incase you haven't noticed the only time I realy post on them anymore is when some one is trying to use false/misleading information about them. and even now I am realy starting not to car anymore... maybe everyone should go out and buy a SiO2 that has one good quality... cold weather chrging........ I don't mind reading your posts, your actualy trying to learn as aposed to someone else, I just see you getting overly focused on things that in the end doesnt matter to the average user, but I see what your trying to learn.
StirCrazy 05/15/22 06:51am Tech Issues
RE: Gas fridge on the move?

Pilot? How old a fridge are we talking about? Modern RV fridges use electronic spark ignition. When my old Dometic had check light problems, I tried blowing the flame out in an attempt to recreate the problem. It would simply spark and reignite. A Dinosaur replacement board fixed the problem. the original poster had a 96, mine is a 91. my board will try to relight the piliot 3 times then go into error no DSI componants back then aside from the furnace. when I bought my 2006 Wave that was a luxery with all DSI apliances, was unheard of then for them to be included as standard and not just as an option. Steve
StirCrazy 05/15/22 06:24am Truck Campers
RE: Lifepo4 float setting?

You need 14.x to get those ions moving better. Once there you can lower the voltage Lower charging voltage than 14.6 needs more time so keep Float voltage same as Bulk longer too till desired SOC is reachedI respectfully disagree. I got that from the Solacity guy. ya that is how a lot of the misconceptions around here got started. prople taking a sales pitch as gospel. you don't know how many stores and websites I have been to where people are giving the information for older nickel cadium batteries and saying that is for LiFePO4. they are starting to get better but for a couple years it was just horrable. there are a couple handycaps to workaround with LFP like cold weather use and charging, but this is very easily solved by moving the batteries into a conditioned space or insulating them and useing heateres (weather there home built or come intagrated into the battery) if some one is unwilling to do the work then the batteries shouldn't be blamed but rather the person who shills them as bad because they are not willing to do the work nessasary. not saying this is you in anyway, I think you are just trying to read to much into sales papers.
StirCrazy 05/14/22 09:09am Tech Issues
RE: Lifepo4 float setting?

Stir find me an Li battery that provide 9C for 5 seconds, 4C continuous, and be charged at -40. You may find that is unobtainable. As to size, I have room for 7 Group 31, so that is not an issue.Why would I need 9,000 amps, or even 4,000 for that matter?? If my battery actually drops to even -20 my energy and heating systems have failed to the point I am already rolling out. I mean propane does not even vaporize at -40. I would have to assume utility power is available at these temperatures(no battery required). Temps at -40 is an expedition vehicle and preparation is far beyond virtually all RVs. No reason to proclaim this as an ordinary criteria for an RV on this forum. Better suited to an expedition vehicle forum. https://www.globalxvehicles.com/uxv-max.html dont want to go there, I went there and searched SiO2 and here is a quote from the first post that came up . "With the exception of cold weather charging, the specs on these are almost identical to any other flavor of lead acid battery. They are not really comparable to lithium with regard to cycle life, energy density, recharge rate etc. There do appear to be some folks shilling these on some RV themed sited that are making some very unrealistic claims about their performance. In the end, they are just extra jellied gel-cells. The low temperature charging 'issue' with lithium is a bit overstate and fairly easy to address if it does apply." Steve
StirCrazy 05/14/22 08:59am Tech Issues
RE: Is there an Air Conditioner using Inverter Compressor

Here are a few battery powered air conditioners. Fairly pricey. https://www.nomadiccooling.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4PKTBhD8ARIsAHChzRI3SRbre56BRTRN3t54f5dHLaKSO1GMjaSCR2eba9xZzSOgYyTqhv0aAtbXEALw_wcB and pretty power hungry, 105Amps at 12V on max. I was looking at several of these last year, couldnt find any that were actualy deicent with power usage aside from the swamp cooler types, but then your pumping moisture into your rv..... Steve
StirCrazy 05/14/22 08:38am General RVing Issues
RE: Is there an Air Conditioner using Inverter Compressor

The guy who installed my house inverters explained that to operate properly an inverter requires a certain minimum length run between the inverter and the heat exchanger to operate properly. Something like 20’. He has done 3 installations for me so I tend to accept what he says. Dave Interesting. I have three in my house. None are that far apart. The line runs are - IIRC - 12 and 16' with the excess line coiled up behind the outside unit.As I said, something like 20’, it was a couple of years ago. And he said he would have to coil any excess near the inverter. He preferred to bury it which is what started the discussion. Our shortest run was just long enough that there was no excess. Dave its probably because the standard lenth of precharged line is 20'. if he had to cut his own line, add the fittings, solder them then purge and charge them the cost would be several times more so a lot of installers are going to the precharged lines and trying to lay it out so there isnt any excess that just looks bad and showes how they did it.
StirCrazy 05/14/22 08:35am General RVing Issues
RE: Practicality of non-propane Camper

While I can appreciate the ability to do this I am still amazed at how much power people use when they are camping.. Maybe I am just the not normal one. in my truck camper with the furnace running most of the time my AH consumption is about 35AH a day. in my 40 foot 5th wheel it is only up around 85 at 28 degrees F so running the furnace, letting the kids watch 1 movie a night and using my kureg in the morning and after supper and the odd microwave use.. popcorn... so your supper alone is almost my entire days use , but I am using propane not power, and same for my fridge and furnace.. I recently upgraded to LFP batteries in the camper, and I am still playing to see what I can do with it but my rough capacity is 9 to 10 times my daily use, as I use it a lot in the real early spring and late fall when there is or could be snow on the ground still and we get a lot of overcast days so I want to be able to go until the sun comes back out and can charge everything up again. I plan on switching the 5th over also , just watching for screaming sales again.. I guess my thought process is that by leaving the furnace, fridge, and stove on Propane, I can focus my power on the lights, furnace fan, pumps etc which maximizes the length of time I can go.. with the solar set up in the summer water and take capacity are my limiting factors now as I can go a couple months on the propane and I'll never run out of power with the solar panels.. Would be interesting to do an energy audit - am I using the same amount of energy, regardless of source. As my camper is considerably smaller than a fifth wheel, I suspect so. I am just using electricity as opposed to propane. My objection to propane is mostly the challenge of finding the right adapters outside of the US, getting a certification that there is no propane left before shipping, compressor refrigerators tend to work better than absorption, and, finally, a 60 gallon diesel tank will produce more heat, longer than a common propane tank without the need to refill. But if you never travel outside of the US, none of this may be worth it. Ironically, we have a gas stove at home. :D I have no issues with a diesel heat system at all, aside from having to carry a third power source haha. I was looking at going to one in the camper but decided the benifit for me wasn't worth the cost. still looking at hydronic systems though... I guess if you ship your unit and travel overseas then there would be some issues, but finding an adapter is a one off thing, once you have a european adapter you have it and so on... I cant speek to compressor fridges as I have never had a adsorption fridge not work well. any issues I have found is from manufactures not following directions properly when installing them.
StirCrazy 05/14/22 08:28am General RVing Issues
RE: Gas fridge on the move?

dometic used to have a problemm of the flame blowing out while driving. I have this issue curenty but its only in very gusty conditions at higher speed. they did put out a baffel system to help with this. I have been doing some reading and am working on my own setup to prevent wind gusts from blowing the pilot out. it is also more comon when it is cooler and the flame is on low. Steve
StirCrazy 05/14/22 08:16am Truck Campers
RE: Drill motor for stabilizers

Impact drivers are loud. Be prepared to get dirty looks from your neighbors! for the 10 second on each jack, I never had anyone complain when I used mine, most people that saw me doing that would come up and say "thats a heck of an idea" and noise wise people running generators is more anoying than that.
StirCrazy 05/14/22 08:11am Travel Trailers
RE: Lifepo4 float setting?

You might want to mention the advantage of weight. It is the only area where LiFePo4 clearly wins over SiO2. Li banks are wonderful where it doesn't get cold, or if one is full time so the bank is in a temperature controlled area. you also forgot size, cold weather capacity and so on. yes I said cold. at -20 degrees C SiO2 only have 60% of there capacity when fully charge, where LFP have 80 to 85% so if you take a 200AH SiO2 and you use it to get maximum lige (so they recomend a 50% depth of discharge max for maximum life) so you have a 100AH battery but due to the cold can you use all 100AH and stay with in your 50% DOD? probably more realisticaly 60 to 80AH available. a 200AH LFP you would have 160 to 170AH you can use at that temp. remember its only charging that is a no no. even then once your using the batteries they are making there own internal heat and if you have them insulated it can be enough to bring them above 0 degrees. I know mine with just a wrap around them at -6 were well above 0 degrees and thats in a uninsulated outside cabnet. when I move them inside they will be in a heated space so who cares how cold it is. then you forget the speed of charging. if I have a 45 to 50Amp charger it has to be limited to 25amps for that SiO2, but I can pound the full 45 to 50amps into the LFP which works out to over twice the charging speed more likly 3 to 4 x as there is no taper above 80% with the LFP. and yes I charge all my batteries to 100% I don't play games and try skew numbers by staying in a spicific range an never fully charge.. GC, or LFP the aim is to be at 100% before I go to bed each day with enough reserve that I can go 5 to 10 days with out sun depending on battery type. I do not envy the people down south that have to include AC use in there builds, that would drive the price up quite a bit. I also don't think it is sour grapes I just think its a lack of understanding of the actual use of the LFP battery. we can read resellers websites all we want and take there word on some stuff , which is what causes have the confusion on here. I wish some of these resellers would just stop trying to put out information about LiFePO4 batteries as they are putting out half truths and in some cases outright BS and then certian people take it as gospel and spout off on the internet. anyways I digress .....
StirCrazy 05/13/22 09:10am Tech Issues
RE: 6 Volt RV batteries

Perhaps CHINESE NOODLES Turned out to be an UNDERPERFORMER? Kirkland Signature "No holds barred" return guarantee Kicked Sam Walton right in the REPRODUCERS It's exactly the same south of the border. Comparing Kirkland Signature to GREAT VALUE... Is like comparing a BMW to a KIA (Korean Imitation Automobile) I don't know about in the US but the kirkland batteries here have changed. they lowered the time on the replacment warenty, and they look like a different manufacturer but you cant tell as all it has is a kirkland label. Steve
StirCrazy 05/13/22 08:49am Tech Issues
RE: Tripping solar panel breaker

I don't know why you have to fuse panels. Apparently you don’t if wired in series. The amps are not high enough to damage the wires if there is a short circuit. That’s what the windynation site that was shared explained. I still did for mine, I did both the panel side and the battery side of the controler with manual tripable breakers so I can use them as a disconect if I have to do any work. Steve
StirCrazy 05/13/22 08:43am Tech Issues
RE: Tripping solar panel breaker

I am looking at changing the controler to a MPPT so I can put them in series. in parralel with a 8 ga wire you are looking at losing up to 0.38V over 10 feet, in series that would be a voltage drop of 0.19. doesnt sound like much but it adds up..Series also has greater shade tolerance/power with panels that have bypass diodes (most have them). My 3 series 30V panels have 3 bypass diodes, so 10V per panel section. I've seen charging at 20V increasing in 10V increments to 90V due to a leafy shade tree. ie The 20V can be from 2 different panels. Parallel would require sun on the entire panel and hence charging would occur with 1, 2 or 3 panels with sun. yup, I know that also, was just looking at the efficiency of voltage drop in this senario. also lowering the amps on his line.
StirCrazy 05/13/22 08:41am Tech Issues
RE: Tripping solar panel breaker

Last fall I installed two Solarland 180w PERC panels. I had ordered three 100 watt but changed my mind and bought the two 180’s. Unfortunately I didn’t resize my order for the panel breaker which is 15 amps. The 100 watt panels were rated for five amps each but these are at 9.42 each. So now that we are getting really sunny days my panel breaker is tripping. I thought ok I’ll have to replace it with a 20. But I was watching the power when I was trouble shooting and thought I might have briefly seen more than 20 amps. Would a 30 amp fuse of these two panels be too high? The MPPT controlller is Victron. The system side breaker is 40 amps. can you change the wiring to a series setup instead? this will keep your incoming amprage low but raise the voltage, so you'll be able to get a bit better efficency out of that MPPT controler. I have a old PWM controler on my three 180 watt panels on my 5th wheel and I see 22amps quite often, I am looking at changing the controler to a MPPT so I can put them in series. in parralel with a 8 ga wire you are looking at losing up to 0.38V over 10 feet, in series that would be a voltage drop of 0.19. doesnt sound like much but it adds up.. Steve
StirCrazy 05/12/22 07:51am Tech Issues
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