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RE: Dino juice v Electrons....
I do not understand that graphic at all. What exactly do you mean by "energy density" or are you referring to "power density"?
Diesel burns to create heat which is used for power. Lithium is used as a material in a storage system for electricity (battery) and does not generate any power of its own. Why don't you compare the energy density of diesel to say, lead? Or sulfuric acid?
And batteries can be recharged. Can't do that with liquid fuel.
Or teachers have failed us. They really have. We have went from a "it's a law of physics" society to "if we can just hope and dream hard enough we will make it happen" society. :R
Ok, so if you don't know what energy density is here is a guy that explains it in the most simplest fashion I can think of.
Just watch this video and then see if you can come back and truly say: LI batteries will work great in "long haul trucks like the Tesla Semi or even towing a small RV trailer." And please remember, this guy is not accounting for things like extreme grades, extreme temp swings, and things like that and many more that long haul trucks and RV'ers encounter.
Just wait till these guys show the Lightning up against lets say the new Chevy baby Dmax in a towing contest. See how far that baby Dmax can go. We already know the Lightning can go about 86 miles on a charge towing a small trailer.
If they do this, they should pick a route like 300 or 350 miles (the average most RV'er travel in a day) and see how long it takes for each rig to pull into a predetermined campground. Now that would be realistic and applicable for this forum.
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Turtle n Peeps
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07/06/22 06:14pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Tesla Semi truck unveil & test ride set for Oct 26th !
Take a tour of this amazing custom 5th wheel rv made by Spacecraft Manufacturing in Concordia Missouri. Gregg from RVHaulers heard about this stunning unit, and couldn’t pass up the opportunity to have Marsha, the president of Spacecraft show us this coach.
These 57 foot custom coaches start at $186,000. That is the price for a nicely equipped unit. The price can increase as you add customizations and unique features.
57ft Spacecraft start at $186,000
Good luck with that lol. That article is about as bogus as they come.
And not to mention illegal to tow in my state and a lot of others. :R
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Turtle n Peeps
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07/06/22 12:34pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Dino juice v Electrons....
It's really that simple.There is an even more simple concept that I think you are missing in your armchair engineering tutorials. Our current use of ICE/fossil fuels is not sustainable. This isn't even debated among those qualified to have an opinion. EVs certainly have problems and may only be a stop gap until we go to something better. They may never be useful for RVing as we know it, or for long haul trucking. Nobody knows what 20 years will bring but it's a safe bet our transportation will not be the same as it is now.
I never said it was, now did I? :R
As far as "nobody knows what 20 years will bring but it's a safe bet our transportation will not be the same as it is now."
We can agree on that statement. After all, in the 50's it was predicted that we would all be in flying cars years ago. Or better yet, we would be driving around in our Ford Nucleon's.
70 years later here we are with 99 percent of use still driving cars on roads that explode fossil fuel and where do we get most of our energy? Fossil fuels; that's where.
BTW, I own an electric car, do you?
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Turtle n Peeps
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07/06/22 12:23pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Dino juice v Electrons....
I hope people realize that finding new and improving battery technology is the #1 thing being worked on by companies today. Everyone knows that Li-Ion is a limited resource, heavy, and doesn't hold much power. EV's are sill a proof of concept, and they are taking off, so the concept works. New battery technology includes Sodium Ion, fuel cell, graphene, and many more. With my limited knowledge, even I know this is the future. There are 2 things manufactures are trying to perfect, lowering the cost, and longer battery life = more power for size and weight. Even the charging systems are in their infancy. They are building more and more each day. Our Government is spending billions to add more charging stations and replace old ones. This will only get more prevalent as more and more people own EV's. Right now they are grocery getters. In my lifetime and many who are on this thread, they will be here and they will replace most common vehicles. Just look at every car manufacturer has an EV and even more are sprouting up such as Tesla and Rivian. As for the semi truck revolution, they are here and will be replacing long haul trucks, along with autonomous vehicles. It's right around the corner. Technology is evolving faster than I can write this message...
You seem to think battery's are new? Battery's and battery powered vehicles have been around since the 1800's. They even pre-date ICE vehicles.
In reality scientists have been working on improving the battery for over a 100 years.
Hell, even LI battery's have been around since the mid 70's to early 80's. Even with the best of technology we have out today I still have to plug in my phone in every night to charge. And my phone uses very little energy compared to a big energy user like a truck. All of those battery's you mentioned have their pluses and minuses. Some are energy density, some are cost, some are they just fail over a short period of time.
As far as the Semi goes, you're in dream land, and here is why. In a few words it's "energy density"......or lack there of.
Let me put up a picture for you that may bring it a little bit better into focus for you:
https://i.imgur.com/GByLBu6l.jpg
See the problem now?
It's really easy to compare electric to gas or electric to diesel. It's not magic. We know how much energy in in a KWH or electricity and we know how much energy is in a gallon of diesel. To get the same amount of energy out of diesel you need the same amount of power electricity. It's really that simple.
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Turtle n Peeps
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07/06/22 10:01am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Dino juice v Electrons....
You failed to notice the EV didn't tow but half way home as he stopped to drop off trailer. This explains difference.
Details Details pay attention to the details.
If you notice I ran the figures from the start of the trip to the charging station which was 86 miles for both vehicles. Another way to look at it is this: The electric Lightning cost was about .38 cents a mile and the gas Chevy truck was about .53 cents a mile to run.
The Lightning took 27 bucks to fill. (In total reality it took somewhere around $33 or $34 bucks to fill because they said they only put 3/4 of a fill into the battery because it too so long to "fill.")
It would take longer to fill the battery than to the brim than to actually drive the trip towing the small trailer. :E :E Plus on the next leg of the trip you could only go about 65 miles on that 3/4 of a charge. :E :E :E
An interesting note is 3 years ago it would have been a lot cheaper to drive the gasoline truck / mile towing. You see, it's hard to sell electric vehicles when gas is cheap. :B
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Turtle n Peeps
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07/06/22 09:22am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: New Travel Trailer
Prices are dropping fast !
A 1 or 2 year old similar trailer would be 1/2 as much !
^^^ this.
As far as towing, my good friend has a 1/2 ton Chevy diesel and tows his 7K trailer just fine.
As far as brakes. The truck does not stop the trailer; the trailer brakes stop the trailer and the truck brakes stop the truck.
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Turtle n Peeps
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07/05/22 10:29am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: First hand F150 hybrid experience anyone?
If you are towing a trailer, hauling a heavy payload or drag racing your buddy's Raptor, the F-150 Hybrid's torque is your friend.
It's garbage statements like this is why I dismiss this whole article.
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Turtle n Peeps
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07/04/22 02:39pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2023 Ford Super Duty
Looks the same to me? Except for the camouflage.
Is it supposed to be a new body style?
I heard one change is they are going to start casting the door skins in 1/8" plate to keep up with other manufactures. :B
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Turtle n Peeps
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07/01/22 09:17am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Dino juice v Electrons....
I thought it was a MW maybe 1.2
Link
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Turtle n Peeps
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07/01/22 12:57am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Dino juice v Electrons....
I think there is a chance that EV Semi's may be on the road and ready for prime time within my lifetime.
The problem is energy density. GM, Ford, Tesla or whoever, they all have the same problem; energy density with LI batteries. They just don't have enough energy to tow very far at all. It only gets worse with the bigger the tow vehicle.
Watches and phones and motorcycles and small cars; LI batteries are pretty good. The bigger and heavier the vehicle the worse it gets.
This Lightning has a 131kwh battery in it. It got to the 86 mile mark towing a small 6K trailer on pretty flat ground.
Lets have fun with a little math. Lets put a 500kwh battery in the lightning truck and see what that gets us.
BTW 500kwh battery is the size of the battery that the CEO of Tesla says they are going to use in the Semi.
500 / 131= 3.8 So we are going to have to put almost 4-131kwh batteries in the Lightning to get 500kwh.
Now the problem is the lightnings battery is rumored to be 1,800 lbs. And that is just the battery weight!
Now, the ER Lightning weighs 6,600 lbs. So, if we take 6,600 lbs and add 3.8- 1,800 lb batteries to it we now have a 13,440 lb 1/2 ton truck.
[email protected], that's not going to work!! It doubles the weight of our haft ton truck and then some!!! All well, lets plod on.
So lets see how far our new cool electric truck can go shall we! So, if we get to go 86 miles with a 131kwh battery we now get to go? 131 x 3.8= 413 miles!!! Not bad!!! That's better than my diesel truck!!!
Oh [email protected], I forgot about the weight thing. :o We are now dragging around another pickup and then some along with our 6K trailer. Shoot, now we are down to like 300 miles. Not too bad still? Right? Oh shoot, here comes a 3,000 foot mountain I have to get over!!! Dang!! Now I'm down to 250. Then the AC or heater is going to gobble up another 10 to 20 miles.
Well that didn't end well. Missed it by .. much. :B
This is with a 19K little tiny truck and trailer.
Does anybody seriously think that a big ol 80 thousand pound Semi can go 621 miles with a 500kwh battery pack?
Remember a 500kwh battery can hold about 12.2 gallons worth of diesel energy. 2x 12.2 (because motors are twice as efficient as ICE's) gives us about 25 gallons of diesel worth of electrical energy for our Semi.:E :E :E
Sorry LI batteries "as they are today", are not going to be used for long haul trucking......EVER. For towing a tent trailer with your Lightning a few miles to the lake CG? Maybe.
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/30/22 09:41pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Dino juice v Electrons....
So this is just a troll thread post?Yep. Since virtually nobody is considering an EV as a tow vehicle, these threads are just an opportunity to bash EVs in general. Kind of like whining that your Cheerios suck because they don't taste like Corn Flakes.:S
What are you talking about? There are several people on this very forum that say their BEV tows better than their gas counterparts. Here is the conservation just the other day: I have bolded where "he" thinks towing with a BEV is "superior" to towing with than any other vehicle.
EVs at this point are totally viable for most daily driving purposes around town or even reasonable rural distances. They are not viable as towing vehicles or long distance road trip vehicles - until battery or charging technology changes that's going to be the case.
I don’t know. I would say they are not viable for any kind of commercial tow vehicle. But for us RVers they work for many of us who are okay with a 20 minute break every couple hours on the road. Heck. It’s rare we do 600 kilometres at a pop when RVing. 200 to 400 is more common for us although we just blasted thru Manitoba and Western Ontario in a few longer days. Meh. For many RVers it’s probably manageable. We’ve got over 5000 kilometres behind us on this trip and 7000 to go. The actual towing experience is superior to any comparable gas SUV and trailer combo. To each his own of course.
Cheers and safe travels all.
Here is how the math works out: There is about 33 thousand watt hours of power in a gallon of gasoline.
The Ford Lightning extended has a 131 thousand watt hour battery in it.
So you take 131 and divide it by 33 and you will get the equivalent amount of "power" that truck can hold in gasoline.
In the Ford Lighting's case it comes out it can hold about 4 gallons of gasoline. Since electric motors are about twice as efficient as a gasoline engine you can get a little over 80 miles towing with the Lightning.
Well would you look at that!!! Amazing how math works out almost exactly like it was predicted.
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/29/22 11:05am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Dino juice v Electrons....
A completely pointless video. No one with any towing knowledge expects current EVs to come even close to towing with an ICE engine. Video hints at being anti EV and leans toward being a GM promotional video.
I don't know about that? :? There are several people on this very forum that think there will be a Semi out any day that will haul 80 thousand lbs and go 621 mile on some sort of magical pixie dust LI battery.
….. ….
And some day they will. But not today or tomorrow or in the near future. Probably not in my lifetime. But the day will come.
Maybe, maybe not. My point is there is a thread on this forum that is currently 376 pages long. One of the forum members posts weekly, or more on how the Semi is coming along any minute. Several people said 2019 was when the magic Semi was going to roll down the road and kill the bad dino oil semi." Well, it's 2022 and I keep on hearing it's going to be made "soon."
Soon has been going on for years and years, and years and...
The fact is LI batteries put out about 10% the energy of gasoline counterpart. Right there says LI batteries will NEVER make it for a long haul Semi.
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/28/22 09:13pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Dino juice v Electrons....
A completely pointless video. No one with any towing knowledge expects current EVs to come even close to towing with an ICE engine. Video hints at being anti EV and leans toward being a GM promotional video.
I don't know about that? :? There are several people on this very forum that think there will be a Semi out any day that will haul 80 thousand lbs and go 621 mile on some sort of magical pixie dust LI battery.
If that happens, an electric pickup that tows 20K gross for 750 miles should be a piece of cake.
Maybe Ford doesn't have the magical pixie dust that another prominent EV manufacture has? But yet again, Ford actually has an EV pickup that can at least go to Home Depo and pick up a few 2x4's and a few bags of concrete without using a drop of gas. That's something at least?
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/28/22 08:05pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Dino juice v Electrons....
Roughly $40 difference in fuel cost.
Hu???:h :h
They both went 86 miles. Correct?
The EV was essentially out of juice. Correct?
It cost $27 dollars to "fill" the Lightning. Correct?
The Chevy got a hair less than 9 miles/ gallon. Correct?
They paid $4.80 a gallon for gas. Correct?
To go 86 miles the Chevy used 9.5 gallons of gas. Correct?
9.5 gallons of gas at 4.80= $46 bucks. (all numbers rounded)
The Lighting took $27 bucks to go the same distance.
So $27 bucks from 46 bucks= $19 bucks. Correct?
Not even close to $40 bucks. Correct? :)
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/28/22 01:34pm |
Tow Vehicles
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Dino juice v Electrons....
Towing just got longer....A LOT LONGER...(and harder)
Well....I guess it would work.....if you're retired....and like to wait around at charging stations half of your life.....and like to play solitaire on your phone while waiting... and have a gen set in you tow rig to run your AC for 14 hours while your truck is charging.
Yep...it's a win!!!! (I'm sure some would say):R
PS, I've driven on this road many times and I don't remember it being steep at all. Wait till someone buys a Lightning and try's towing the Ike. Good luck with that!
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/28/22 12:02pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Old tow rig about ready for duty again!
Looks killer Grit Dog!!!
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/27/22 03:41pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Is It Worth It?
Diesel will net you 25 to 30% better mileage. Just do the math in your area and find out if diesel wins out in the cost contest or not.
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/23/22 12:53pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: 2019 Kodiak water in wheel well
How to post a photo
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/18/22 11:02am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Will a 3/4 ton do
When I first brought this up 15 some odd yrs ago, folks swore I was wrong. Then a fellow named wadcutter showed, a retired CVEO and told them folks they were wrong. One mod even tried to say RVs were different rules than commercial. He was told any over 10000 has to follow the same laws.
You will not keep yourself out of trouble, Murphy's law, just being under sticker limits.
IMHO, best people know good vs bad habits. There are a multitude rules and laws that will get an unsafe person off the road. ALL of them are moving violations, way the heck worst than being over wieght! Which is a non moving violation.
Oh the stories some of us can tell! Lol
Marty
Oh good lord, I can only imagine.
Heck, I've been on this board for almost 10 years and there are still PLENTY of members who still refuse to or aren't smart enough to understand this.
Grit don't forget about the "insurance will never pay off if you cause a wreck and are overweight" The NTSB will pick up every single can of soup and bottle of beer and weigh it all and give the info to your insurance company and it will go on your permanent record for the rest of your life!:B
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/15/22 03:54pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: TT Roof Treatment
Yes, Henry's Tropical Cool roof coating. One and done for life.
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Turtle n Peeps
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06/14/22 09:40pm |
General RVing Issues
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