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RE: Anyone try Road Armor suspension system?

I am working through some major issues with my trailer right now with the dealer. The frame is cracked above the rear spring hanger on both sides. I am thinking once I finally get it back (3 months and counting) I might look at a major suspension upgrade. I have watched some videos on the LCI Road Armor. They review well but saying that all the reviews I have seen have been sponsored by LCI which really leaves me with doubts about how unbiased they really are. My cracked frame in the end is a Lippert/LCI frame (Heartland trailer) and they have really dropped the ball. I am not sure buying more LCI parts to fix a LCI trailer that is **** is the right answer.. Sorry for the vent ;-)
bedpan 10/22/20 12:49pm Travel Trailers
RE: Need help on winterizing RV with residential fridge

I searched for "winterize lg fridge with ice maker" found this: Winterized my unit today couldn't find any info on line (web) on how to winterize an ice maker. Called my local dealer they stated to disconnect the infeed line and drain it. This would be fine for the water up to the valve located in the rear of the unit, after the valve and up to the ice maker would still be full of water which would result in freeze damage. So I called LG that was a joke, got 2 different techs not from the US they stated to do the same thing as my local dealer stated to do drain the line and if I wanted to go further to pull the refrigerator out drain the valve and the lines by disconnecting all lines from the valve unit. I figured this out before I talked with them, not so easy to do. To make a long story short I removed the ice tray and lower tray out of the freezer it's a French door with bottom freezer. I then took a mirror and found a test button near the front of the ice maker about 1/2" from the front on the underside, pushed it and out came the antifreeze, its a button that opens the valve for a cycle, only took 2 cycles and it was winterized. I'll do the same to dewinterized next spring a few cycles and the antifreeze will be gone. Taken from here: link
bedpan 10/19/20 10:33am Tech Issues
RE: Back tire stuck in wet ground

I would be inclined to get a couple good jacks and some large 2x10's or something similar. Jack things up until you can get board in place to hold everything at ground level. From there it should be easier to get it pulled out.
bedpan 10/19/20 10:28am Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

Well folks, I thought I owed an update... It seemed like things were moving along towards having things fixed. The dealer had a welder in who feels comfortable with the repair and parts were finally on the way from LCI. LCI provided shipping details with an ETA of Sept 27th. I stopped by the dealer last week to check the status (Its about an hour drive but I happened to be up that way). The dealer never received the parts. Well as it turns out those parts never shipped. The dealer did show me a few emails back and forth, the latest indicating that LCI just received parts and now needs to manufacture parts to ship to me? I was a little frustrated with the dealer for not providing me updates but at least he appears to be on the ball and was following up on his end. So Friday I tried to contact heartland. There phone system sucks. After waiting on hold for about 30 minutes to speak to someone it bounces you through to a voicemail. Well three Voicemail later (yes 1.5 hours on hold) heard nothing back from Heartland. So friday night a send them an email... I was a little harsh in my wording but polite throughout. I did get an email back from them Monday Morning (today). I followed that up with a phone call. Super nice Lady who seems to have genuine interest in helping bring this issue to resolution. She has promised to follow up by today with an update from LCI on the status of the parts. I vented a little with her and brought up my concern about the safety of the trailer moving forward. She has suggested a Structural inspection that she believes Heartland will pay for once the repairs are complete. She is going to confirm that she can authorize the inspection and going to advise. All said I think I will let the welder complete the repair and try and get this inspection done. I am not to sure where in Canada (Toronto West to Belleville) I should bring it but I should have some time to source someone for this. I think at the same time I will talk with them about a full suspension upgrade while its in there. This may negate the warranty from LCI/Heartland but we can cross that bridge a little later. Thanks again to all the folks who took time to suggest idea's. I do appreciate everyone's insights! Mike
bedpan 10/19/20 10:24am Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

I am not sure 5 hours is enough for replacing the 2 hangers and welding patches on the I beam as well as repairing the lower flange of the I beam. As well I want the axles aligned and I will be asking for 2 replacement tires. Its a start ;-) Just got word that Lippert has approved 5 hours of work plus parts for the two hangers. Now to see what that translates to the Dealer and if the dealers welder is competent.. While the 5 hours is generous for the repair of two hangers and it may be good as new when done. The problem is that it was less than acceptable when new. You need to know exactly what will be done to YOUR trailer.
bedpan 09/01/20 06:19pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

Just got word that Lippert has approved 5 hours of work plus parts for the two hangers. Now to see what that translates to the Dealer and if the dealers welder is competent..
bedpan 09/01/20 05:27pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

For sure.. I see a fair number of people looking for help on similiar issues. I will do my best to share the whole story including the repair. Please show images of the fix :)
bedpan 08/31/20 05:32pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

Further update for those interested.. I spoke with the dealer today. They seem to acknowledge that this is taking to long and that Heartland is not providing any help. They are scheduling a Welder they use to come have a look and provide some insight. They are planning on contacting Lippert once they have some direction from the welder. I contact Lippert anyways.. Just the front line support. Turns out Heartland had not created a ticket with Lippert as I was told. Oh well. I provided all the details they needed and photos. The dealer needs to forward on a few more photos as they want photos of the VIN and photos of the 4 sides of the trailer. I am told 24 hours and they should be back to me... Time will tell! Cheers, Mike
bedpan 08/31/20 12:32pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

Thanks there Dedmiston. Legal advise was certainly not why I started the thread. It has been suggested but I have been pretty clear it was not my goal. I do appreciate everyone's advise though. Hey everyone. This is an interesting discussion and I appreciate how constructive the feedback has been so far. Unfortunately there's one taboo angle to this topic and it's non-negotiable: Legal Please refrain from any discussion of lawyers, lawsuits, or consumer agencies. Any further Legal discussion will result in the thread being deleted for good and without further warnings. Posts are not allowed in which a local, state, or federal consumer action board and/or legal counsel is/have been involved. This includes posts related to future, ongoing or past lawsuits.
bedpan 08/31/20 12:24pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

Thanks Joe, I posted a link to the same document a few pages back.. How was your cracks compared to mine? How are things holding up? You happy with it over all? There IS a procedure for repairing frames at the spring hanger. Ask how I know. Everybody's different but if it were me, I'd take the procedure to my local welding shop and get them to do it. Won't be more than a few hundred dollars. Yes, I know it's under warranty, but sometimes... Lippert Frame repair procedure
bedpan 08/30/20 06:05pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

Thanks Doug, I will see what my discussions tomorrow bring. Your suggestions are likely my backup if they do not come to task. LCI DOES NOT build any RV's. They just supply a LOT of the components that are used in the build. LCI will stand by the Frame. It is just getting LCI and Heartland to get together and get it done for you. I will tell you, to get the best result, you HAVE to do this 1. Type up a letter with your PIC of the VIN sticker included and all pics of your problem. Your letter states what is wrong and you cannot get any help from Heartland or LCI 2. DO NOT GET NASTY (at this point) 3. Try to include all pertinent info in your letter. Include copies of your Sales agreement. 4. Send the same letter and pic copies to the President of Heartland and the President of LCI. 5. Send the same to Heartland Customer service referencing your copies to the Presidents. 6. Send them Certified----This IS important. You will have a record of them getting the letters 7. Just ask that they take care of your problem without you having to jump thru all sorts of hoops. 8. TRUST ME. This will get a response. Doug
bedpan 08/30/20 04:53pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

I agree with Doug. The repair document(s) appear to be prepared by Lippert. Clearly, Heartland/Lippert are both aware of the fault(s), hence, the repair documents exist. However, in the world of engineering, sometimes one company gives another company, (usually a supplier) whats called a "performance spec." These are general specifications which lack detail and require the supplier to provide some design work. If that's the case here, both companies could share some partial responsibility. Just a guess. Was this RV built AND sold initially in the USA? As I understand, it's now in Canada. Without reading the terms of the warranty, there could be "across the border" legal issues which are further described the the text of the warranty. Per the drawings, Lippert provides a part number for the repair parts. If you could get the repair parts package in full, I wouldn't have problem finding a certified welder to install them. (you should be fully reimbursed for your expenses in doing this) This isn't rocket science. You will be possibly opening a can of worms should there be additional issues, but at least you could safely move on from your present stalemate. Good luck to you. Chum lee Missed this one in my big reply.. The trailer was Bought in Canada new from a Heartland dealer. There should be no issues as far as Warranty is concerned. That said I have not found a definitive answer as to how long the frame is warrantied. My next step is to try and talk to Lippert and the Dealer tomorrow and see if we can get things moving. Lippert may come to bat and have some suggestions on qualified repair places and we can sort out how to get the trailer there. We shall see.. I am just hoping I can find time in my work day to actually make some phone calls.
bedpan 08/30/20 02:49pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

And there you have it......Lippert even has SOP's and assigned number parts in place. Sort of makes one think why the reinforcement plate and tubes are not used when fabbing their junk to begin with. They're simply gambling on folks not using the rig enough during the warranty period for the issues to crop up. This... Based on what I have seen and read its just letting the problem fester and hope warranty is up before it has to be fixed.. Thats how I see it but maybe I am wrong. Seems people want to blame Lippert. WRONG Company. It is Heartland. LCI just builds the frames to the SPECS that the RV Maker engineers supply. So, LCI gets the gauge metal(Heartland specs) and installs the crossmembers and hangers where the HEARTLAND engineers state to install. When LCI goes out in the field to repair frames, they Charge Back the cost to the RV Maker(Heartland). Doug I may well be wrong but I would would assume (I know its a dangerous word), that this is a lippert designed trailer. Lippert has there own warranty on it outside of heartland which leads me to believe that heartland i just buying and reselling the trailer. If it was made for heartland on spec it would have a heartland sticker on it not lippert. Just me guessing though. I finished the frame of my bus in red Rost O Leum primer, three coats then BODY SHOOTZ, four gallons worth. Zero rust 100% adhesion after 33 years. It's been on a pad for the last 12-years. I have some questions about this but I will leave it until I get this major issue resolved first..
bedpan 08/30/20 02:44pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

I had never thought of the flex going all the way up into the frame but I guess that makes sense... The amount of flex you can see in the tires during a sharp parking lot turn is scary. To be honest I never thought of it as an issue. I turn the wheel as much as I need to to compelete my turn. I never put thought into the flex wear and tear on the axle hangers, frame etc.. It makes me want to re-think how I approach some parking lots, getting gas etc. Lets hope Monday see's me back in action. I missed last week of holidays in the trailer and I have another week coming up late September that I am not holding my breath on. If you look at the frame rails from the end, imagine what happens on a curve. The two upright I-beams will tilt forming a sort of parallelogram, continued flexing like this will fatigue the metal and cause the failure you see. Here is my crude example to illustrate the problem: I------I I------I
bedpan 08/29/20 03:34pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

For those interested here are some documents from Lippert that I believe apply to the repair needed. Saying that as I was looking for links to post for them they appear dated.. Heartland Document - Lippert Repair and here is one from the NHTSA but the document date is 2009 https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2011/RCRIT-11V486-1111.pdf
bedpan 08/29/20 01:30pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

Lots of replies. Thanks to everyone for taking the time and providing their opinion. I will try and reply to each of the suggestions here... In the end my plan is as follows. Monday I will touch base with Lippert and see if they can provide any clear direction and if they are willing to take ownership of the problem. I will also follow up with the dealer and get there suggestions as to how to proceed. I guess one place I am unclear is on the Warranty... Heartland provides 1 bumper to bumper coverage. We are now at just under 18 months since I purchased. They also however have a three year structural warranty. Trying to read the T&C's of the 3 year it seems to be targeting more the structure of the trailer box and does not specify the frame. I cannot find specifics of the frame warranty. Sorry this has happened. Highly recommend no phone calls. Email. Then there is written accounts of all correspondence. Pretty gross customer service requesting YOU deliver the unit to them in the States. But poor customer service from some US companies is par for the course for Canadians. There's no reason they shouldn't be doing 100% of the leg work. Picking up your unit, finding a certified (this is important) welding shop, giving them the repair specs, and returning your unit with an apology for the trouble. Be thankful your local RV shop didn't do the repair. Likely they don't have a certified welder on payroll and would hose any warranty you had left. As a metal worker and weldor, that, to my eye, looks like a pretty pathetic piece of metal for what it's job is. You should also read carefully your warranty fine print for your unit as sold in Canada. And also look into rules regarding warranty on products sold in your Prov. Email the parent company. Shoot for the top. Include previous correspondence. If still no joy, then inform them your lawyer will be in touch. And post pic's and your story on every relevant social media outlet you can. Bad PR can be deadly and the only thing that gets some results sometimes. Sadly. Keep us posted. Hey Bert.. I have logged every phone call and the general nature of the discussion since it started. Saying that I know it only goes so far. As I start digging into the issue even more I am not entirely sure where the warranty lies and who has warranty on the frame at this point. After the next round of phone calls if there is not a drastic improvement in the ownership of the problem I will be sure to start recording calls and sending emails. In Canada I able to legal record the calls. You may find it more cost efficient and less stressful to do the job on your own. Measure from outside axle center to exact hitch center. FOUR measurements. Then exles centers left then right. Axle to axle. This will orient your axles correctly. I like the low heat needed for ?" ALL STATE 275, also known as SUPER MISSILE WELD DC REVERSE POLARITY ARC WELDING ROD. Drill crack ends with an ?" drill to blind the crack stress end. Run the rod at 110 amps. One pass. This will pass minimum heat into the channel. Recheck your measurement alignment on the frame orientation points. Cover the weld points after you are satisfied the repair is permanent. I have run cracked in two Jeep frames through the Rubicon, after such repairs and found the work satisfactory The low heat of the weld avoids a lot of enbritlement issues. . Hey MEXICOWANDERER. Thanks for the direction. Although I am very handy welding does not land in the world of things I can say I am proficient at. I appreciate that it is not rocket science but it is major structural component and could have a major repercussions if(when) I screw it up. I will leave this to the experts and do my best to have the manufacturers pay for it! Take the trailer to a heavy duty truck-trailer shop and have it done right. Show them the X-Factor crossmember product. Providing lateral support with the purchased product or simply adding steel will help greatly. You can play around with RV dealers, frame manufacturers or the RV builder, but it will only be fixed right when you make it happen. Yes, I was thru this but gave up when Lippert showed me a scrap of paper with an incredibly poor sketch of the proposed repair. I made crossmembers and did 100% of the work myself. Hey Lynnmor. This in the end sounds like what I will need to happen. I am hoping that Lippert/Heartland will pay for the bulk of the repair through. I guess tracking down one of these shops is the next hurdle to figure out. Thoughts on what to look for and how to find a competent shop? Regarding the X-Factor crossmembers... The little reading I did on them seem to be positive for re-enforcing the shackles. It sounds though like they may in fact put more stress on the frame. This is where it would be nice to have a good shop to provide some direction. It may be possible to get it to the USA but it will cost. Basically you take it to the border and drop it Then a Towing service picks it up. You do not actually enter the USA.. And the towing service only enters canada a few feet (not past customs) .... but of course they are gonna want to get paid for the delivery. I would have to either have some welding done before transport or pay for towing to the border as well. When I talk to Lippert I will ask if they are willing to do this maybe.... Those cracks are from insufficient strength of the structure itself, welding them back up without a LOT of additional metal will result in the same cracks developing in the future, likely out of warranty. Before any changes are made I would recommend you have a licensed engineer have a look at it, if the design is inadequate you will need a lot more than just some welding. Hey JaxDad. This is really my major concern is making the structure safe for the life of the trailer. In the end I will only own it for another 3-5 years then I will be selling it. Saying that I want to be sure I can sell it in good faith. What would one look for to find a licenced engineer specializing in trailer structure? I don't even know where to begin looking! It seems to be an inordinate amount of rust on the frame. Do they salt the roads up there? Do you do any off roading with this rig? I read an article by an RV chassis engineer who said they are not designed for off road use; can't handle the stress. You got free advice from an attorney here, I would take it. Sorry you have to deal with this. Find out how Lippert would repair it, have it done, then seek reimbursment from Lippert. T18skyguy, Ontario uses lots of salt. The trailer has traveled for 2 March Breaks down to Florida. After the first trip I washed the trailer as soon as I was home and by mid summer this is how rusted it was. I talked to the dealer and showed him and was told its just the way it is. My plan was to wire brush the entire exposed frame, paint and then get it undercoated this fall to try and slow things down. Absolutely no off roading. We have drove a few dirt roads but nothing nasty. No modifications to the trailer or frame and nothing heavy in the rear of the trailer. All questions the dealer asked me when I dropped it off. In Saskatchewan, to weld on a vehicle frame requires a special license. I would imagine the same would be true in Ontario. I would suggest that without the licensed welder, if a repair is done--you have made the unit uninsureable. Do things by snail mail. Any correspondence you send--keep a copy--and mail a copy to yourself. Do not open the copy letters to yourself. The post mark makes them a legal document. pianotuna, good point on it needing to be a licensed welder. This does make sense!
bedpan 08/29/20 01:22pm Tech Issues
RE: Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

Very good information.. And to be fair I have not talked to Lippert.. How does this cracking compare to yours if you don't mind me asking? Covid is throwing a wrench into things for sure. It just seems that no one is jumping up to help. In my mind I have warranty. I brought it to the dealer I bought it from. Things should be taken care of from there.. I don't know if this will help you but we had a cracked lippert frame on a coachman trailer that we noticed while on the road. I contacted lippert and they paid for spot welding to get us home. once there, they found a local metal shop and overnighted the specs and instructions for the shop to perform. sent us in the mail an official new three year warrenty on the welded frame. this was awhile ago, but they were really good to work with under that stressful situation.
bedpan 08/28/20 06:54pm Tech Issues
Cracked frame Heartland/Lippert - Warranty but no help!

Hey folks.. asking for some advice and direction. We bought a Heartland Sundance 24bh brand new in March 2019. We have had a number of issues with it since we bought. All of which we have taken care of on our own. Mainly because we were travelling at the time and it would take to long to involve warranty. The most recent issue is fairly major and Heartland is choosing not to help. In July we drove on a 4000km, 2400mi road trip around northern Ontario. I am fairly attentive to wheels bearing and suspension issues checking things over on most stops and breaks. On our second last day I noticed some sever wear on the inner edge of the rear drivers side tire. I looked it over and my initial thought was bearing despite having been professionally repacked earlier in the summer. When we got home I figured out what the real issue was. The frame is cracked above the rear spring shackle. I assume this is causing a change in alignment and causing the tire to wear. I brought it the 40km up the road nice and slow and dropped it off at our trailer dealer. Initially I was told it's out of warranty but I pointed out the 3 year structural warranty. The service manager came out and looked at it and agreed it should be under warranty. He agreed to contact Heartland and get things started despite the fact they don't do welding at the shop. During further inspection he also notice the frame on the opposite side is also cracked! Awhile later I got a call from Heartland asking if I could bring the trailer to the USA for repair. I kinda laughed and explained how this was not an option for a few major reasons. First Covid means I am not allowed to cross the border and second the trailer is in no condition to be towed. I tried asking questions about what would happen, concerns about how major this is and the fact it was wrecking our family holidays. They had no info but agreed to dig into it and call me back. I informed our dealer about the call and he informed me that the repair is outside of the scope of what they are able to repair even bringing in a welder and that he has pushed back on Heartland saying he refuses to accept any liability from the repair. He has not said it but seems to be inferring this is beyond welding on a patch. So another call from Heartland yesterday and they advise me I need to find my own company to repair it and have them contact Lippert for instructions on how to. I pushed back on them telling him that I should not be responsible to find ways to farm out there repairs for them. Heartlands solution? He sent me an email with 3 other trailer dealers in the area and lipperts phone number. I suggested that if they really want to see the trailer it would not be overly expensive to have it flatbedded down to Indiana. Based on the number of trucks I see coming up here with new trailers I would assume they are running back empty. No dice. Charlie says talk to Lippert. So Heartland is refusing to help at this point and when I tell Heartland this I get "Well I sent you an email..." So we are camping this week. Sleeping in a tent instead of our brand new trailer. So calling anyone is tough with very limited signal on the park. Tomorrow we are heading home and I need to call everyone involved to try and find an action plan.... Lippert is aware of the issue. In fact they have a white paper on how to repair it. My dealer is of the mind that the shackles used were to small and putting to much stress on the frame. I understand the position he is in but as the end customer I feel very stuck right now. In reading around it seems Lippert usually sends out there own welders flying them to sites to make the repairs when this comes up. I am at a bit of a loss as to how and who to push to fix this.... For info sake we are in Canada on the east side of the GTA and the dealer is in Peterborough. Your thoughts as appreciated! Crack I noticed - https://i.imgur.com/Pab8cTLl.jpg Note the rust on the 18 month old frame. I am told its normal.. Crack the dealer noticed - https://i.imgur.com/oo3RtZBl.jpg I wire brushed and painted this side of the frame earlier in on the trip...
bedpan 08/28/20 06:17pm Tech Issues
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