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RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

That should allow enough room to install some hinges, and still allow the door to swing without sticking. Next was to glue the outside skin on to the frame of the door. I glued this together and then gave almost all of the inside of the skin a coat of Por 15. As you can see, I did not remove the extra, temporary brace yet. I'll pull that out tomorrow, and finish the Por. Hey, nothing like adding some extra Por to the "Por House". Lol. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/newdoor10.jpg
fulltimin 10/16/19 09:55pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

Next was to add the piece at the bottom, and while I was doing that, I forgot to take pictures. Had my mind on other things while I was doing this, so I'll have to take them later, on how the bottom piece is fastened, assuming I remember. I then removed the extra plywood inside the steel door frame, and again test fit the door itself. There is roughly 1/4" all around the door, which is what I was going for, as you can see here. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/newdoor9.jpg
fulltimin 10/16/19 09:49pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

After screwing the temporary piece in place, I again test fit the frame portion, and as they say, "it fit like a glove". http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/newdoor8.jpg
fulltimin 10/16/19 09:45pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

I pulled my partial door frame out and added a temporary bracket towards the bottom. This will be removed later, but I wanted it there to hold the lower area in place until I could get the bottom piece in place. The bottom piece will be glued and screwed into place. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/newdoor7.jpg
fulltimin 10/16/19 09:44pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

Good news and bad news tonight. Bad news is, I had a loooonnnngggg day with my niece working. Good news, I still managed to get just a touch of work done in preparation for the beginning of the door assembly. I have glued all but the bottom of the door, into the shape that I wanted. So, tonight I finished cutting and gluing some plywood to length that I need to finish the bottom of the door frame. The red area, shows the pieces that will form the bottom of the door. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/newdoor6.jpg Tomorrow, I plan on cutting the piece above to length, and gluing/screwing that in place, and then I can put the outside skin on the frame. Yeehaw! Looking forward to getting a door in place to keep the elements out. That will also allow me to see how this puppy will perform in the cold weather over the winter. Wahoo.....
fulltimin 10/14/19 10:03pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

I can only hope this posts. I've been having problems getting into the site, so I'll give it a try. Wahoo!!! Got the first part of my door frame complete. This part is about 1.5" x 1.5", which is where I wanted it to be. Even with all the laminating of the layers of plywood, there is a small amount of flex in this, which is not surprising. I plan on adding a second layer inside this one, with the grain running a different direction for extra strength. Hey, it won't be too long until we have a door in place, and will be able to seal them door up properly. Yay! We'll see how it goes with my niece tomorrow, as to how much, if any I get to work on the door. YeeHaw! http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/newdoor5.jpg
fulltimin 10/13/19 09:41pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

If you are using the frame to make an exact copy of the opening and using that as the door, where is the room for the swing the hinged door going to come from? It's one thing to pull the door straight out but another to create a door with the room for hinges and swing. Before I started gluing up the door, I added 2, 1/8" strips to the steel frame the door goes into. That will give me nearly 1/4" on each side and top for extra space. Here is the pic I posted about temporarily adding extra plywood, that will not be part of the door, nor part of the frame. Once the door is built, these pieces will be removed, and I'll have, hopefully, enough of space for the door to swing open and closed. Should it turn out that, I need more space, I can trim a small amount off of the door itself. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/doorstrips2.jpg
fulltimin 10/13/19 07:19am Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

I want to bring this picture back. The red arrow points to what the outer edge of the door will look like as far as plywood direction. The yellow arrow points to the orientation of the plywood grain that I will be adding on the inside. Then again, maybe aluminum angle would work well in there. Just thought of that. Anyway, I want the plywood grain as shown with the red arrow along the edge of the door. Why? Any screws that I need to add need to be able to grab into something without splitting the wood. Going through the plywood grain as the red arrow shows, will work with screws, nicely. You know, like hinge screws. If those same screws are screwed into plywood as shown on the left with the yellow arrow, it tends to split the plywood, and has less holding power. That's the reason for gluing this up that way. This will give me the strength I am looking for, to keep the door straight and sturdy, compared to what was on her to begin with. Oh, by the way, ignore the mismatched plywood here. This is to explain grain/screw direction only. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/screwdirection.jpg
fulltimin 10/12/19 09:41pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

Here is a section of the outer frame. I've gotten 9 layers glued together, in between the red arrows, and only need to add a few more in this direction. That means I have about 1" of the outer frame glued together. I think I'll do about 1.5" or so. Even though this looks like it should only take about 15 minutes, is doesn't. Until I get the plywood cut to length, adhesive applied, then fumble around trying to get everything lined up and clamped, it just takes a while. Longer than you would think. Then again, that's nothing unusual. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/doorplywoodframe.jpg
fulltimin 10/12/19 09:34pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

Wahoo! Pulled the partial door frame out today, and continued to add layers of plywood to build up the outer section of the door. I laid it on a small table and just had a great gluing time. Twice, actually. Earlier in the day, and later in the day. Fun at it's finest? http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/newdoor4.jpg
fulltimin 10/12/19 09:29pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

Well, today, I started gluing, once again. This pic doesn't look like much, but I spent some time early this afternoon gluing more strips together, and then tonight, I glued some more. The glue only takes 2-4 hours to cure. The curved portion is now nearly 3/4" thick, so it won't be long until I can pull this off and continue gluing on the table, which should make things go faster. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/newdoor3.jpg Hey, I didn't even have to use all my clamps today. Yay! Lol. Why am I doing this like this? Well, I figure if I build the outer edges of the door in place, it has to fit when I am done, right? Famous last words, I guess. Anyhow, This keeps getting stiffer with each layer, so it should not be long until I can skin the one side, then insulate, then skin the other side. The door frame, (steel portion), is not 100% identical on both sides at the curved portion. It's close, but not quite. That's why I am taking a little extra time to get it, hopefully, fitting correctly. I can always trim a little off here or there if I need to. Like I said, it doesn't look like much, but there was a lot of progress today, that the pic just doesn't show. Wahoo!
fulltimin 10/11/19 09:25pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

Why would I do that? Because I could. Lol. Next step was to add some more strips on the inside of those and glue them together. That will create an exact replica of the upper door frame. After adding a few extra layers, I needed to add some clamps. So, that is what I did. Unfortunately, I ran out of clamps. What is the one thing every woodworker needs? MORE CLAMPS! Yea, even with all these, I still only had about about 1/2 of what I needed to do the entire door frame. Sounds like another run to Harbor Freight coming up. Lol. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/doorstrips3.jpg Yea, that's what I did today, and it took a while. Longer than you might think. Need more clamps, Capt'n.
fulltimin 10/10/19 09:40pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

This first step, was to tape a couple of layers to the inside curve of the door frame, like this. That will take up nearly 1/4" of space on the inside of the curve. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/doorstrips2.jpg
fulltimin 10/10/19 09:31pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

Today I took some 1/8" thick plywood that I had left over from the plywood that I put on the inside walls, and cut some of them into strips that are a little over 1.5" wide. Like, so.... http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/doorstrips.jpg Why, you might ask? Because they bend easily, and I need to bend a bunch of them.
fulltimin 10/10/19 09:29pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

Oh, NO! He's at it again.... Thinking. Lol. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/elephant.jpg
fulltimin 10/10/19 09:27pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

You do realize you can get other work done while the glue is curing, don't you? It's ok to multitask. You do realize you can get other work done while the glue is curing, don't you? It's ok to multitask. Haha....I was thinking the same thing, just didn't say it! My wife claims men can not multitask well. She tells me this while I'm working a project and talking on the phone at the same time....go figure.... Al WOW! What a concept! Why didn't I think of that? Lol. Actually, I did. I was multi tasking, just the other part of what I was doing, had nothing whatsoever to do with the motor home, so I didn't post anything about it.
fulltimin 10/10/19 09:25pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

I also glued up some foam insulation with the Great Stuff adhesive. In this pic, you can see I am applying a lot of pressure with the putty knife and it will not budge. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/checkinggreatstuffadnesive.jpg Applying pressure from the end, instead of the side, yielded different results. It still took a good amount of pressure, but it did separate. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/checkinggreatstuffadnesive2.jpg After it separated, I was able to pull the adhesive off of the foam without damaging the foam, so overall, it's not as strong with the foam as I had hoped. That should about wrap up the adhesive testing, as far as I know. Looking forward to getting other work done instead of that.
fulltimin 10/09/19 10:00pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

I'm sure you will all be thrilled, I am about done with the glue testing! Yay! Lol. This first pic is of 2 pieces of plywood that were coated with Por 15. As you remember, the Great stuff adhesive did not adhere well to the coated plywood. These 2 pieces of plywood were also coated with Por 15, but I used Chemlink in between them, and after curing, I tried to pry them apart. As you can see, by the bend, there is a lot of pressure on the putty knife, and the plywood is still is not coming apart. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/checkingchemlink.jpg Eventually, I used a claw hammer to get them apart. This was the result. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/checkingchemlink2.jpg
fulltimin 10/09/19 09:51pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

Well, I am trying to follow what you intend on doing. I see you cut our two blanks for the door a few pages back. The radius you intend on bending the strips of plywood is going to be difficult as plywood resists bending due to the adhesives used to bond all the layers of wood, i.e., "Plywood". Further, the door will be subject to swelling depending on the weather and humidity. Knowing how you are obsessed with insulation and fitment, you might not be happy with the results. Exterior doors are solid for a reason. They don't swell. They use solid wood, not necessarily plywood. Interior doors can be hollow and skinned with veneer since they are indoors and not subject to the weather. Can it be done the way you intend? Probably, but there are other ways to accomplish your needs that are simpler. For the radius, I would probably use several Maple strips that are laminated and possible steamed to get them to bend without breaking. Then you can use any one of the glues you have tested, however, a simple wood glue will work just fine as it has less viscosity than the foam glues you are playing with now. You could look for guidance under boat building for suggestions on how to make a door with the radius you desire. I think you will find, it is not all that easy. Yea, I guess I didn't explain that very well. My primary goal with the door is to stiffen it quite a bit and keep it from twisting and racking. The original door was impossible to seal because it would flex so much. It didn't take much pressure to do that either. The drawing below is a little more in line with what I am trying to accomplish. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/doorframewood.jpg The rectangle part of the door is what I am trying to stiffen. the black and red parts indicate the plywood which is run different directions in order to stiffen the door frame, which will also be skinned by plywood on both sides. I also will insulate the center, inside the framework of the door. The upper portion, which is rounded, will be dealt with differently. I have no intention of trying to bend any plywood up there, as that would just be an exercise in frustration, and futility. Thanks for the post.
fulltimin 10/09/19 09:40pm Class A Motorhomes
RE: Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

I am happy with those tests. That stuff does a very good job at holding wood together. Moving on to my wood framed door. This is not an exact representation of what I want to do with the door frame, but it will give you an idea of how I want to create the frame. Since plywood will bend easier one way than another, I want to use that to create the outer frame. This pic represents a couple of ways of how plywood will bend. http://paddleupstream.com/mohorebuild/plywooddoor.jpg If I take a 3 foot long piece of plywood, say 3/4" x 1.5", the red arrows indicate the direction that the plywood will bend easiest. The yellow arrows, indicate the direction that the plywood will be stiffer. I figure if I combine the 2, that should make this very stiff for a door frame. These are not exact dimensions, but by gluing some plywood together I should get the best of both worlds. Should be less flex and twist this way, without having to worry about it warping, like it would if I used a solid piece of wood. Then I can glue insulation in the center, and glue plywood on the inside and outside, and have a stiff, somewhat insulated door. My next question is, can anybody think of a structural reason why this would not be a good idea? If so, let me know. By the way, I have up to 2.5" that I can use for the thickness of the door. I don't plan on making one that thick, but could if I wanted to.
fulltimin 10/08/19 09:40pm Class A Motorhomes
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