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Forum
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RE: sway
Sorry for the long post--I get excited by trailer setup!
My experience and opinion—yours will vary. Lots of good posts above, some of which I will slightly repeat for emphasis.
We towed for 7 years with an F-150. Small 4.6 V8, 4 wheeler in the bed, towing a trailer likely over 6400 lb. Never felt a bit of sway, but a bunch of bow wave. Used P XL extended load range tires aired up to the tire rating of 43 psi (not the sticker guidance of 35 psi), 800 lb. WD and double friction sway control.
1. First be sure that it is not just the bow wave that is being noticed. When 2 boxes pass or meet at highway speed (and you’re pulling a bumper hitch trailer), the bow wave will push the tow vehicle steering back and forth. A slight steering wheel tightening, first one way then the other, will be necessary to correct to straight down the road driving. This is normal. Fifth wheels and goosenecks don’t exhibit this because their hitch point is at the axle.
2. Sway is an out of control push often turning into an oscillation as the driver tries to correct, resulting in a collision if not quickly brought under control. Ford sway control is an emergency feature that kicks in AFTER sway is detected by the vehicle stabilization system. It does nothing to prevent sway, which is all about tow and trailer setup. Hopefully, it detects sway at a low enough level to avoid the collision, but you still don’t want it to ever kick in.
3. I am a HUGE believer that proper front axle weight is important to preventing sway. Easiest way to check this (and maybe more accurate than wheel well measuring) is just to mark a spot on the front bumper and measure to the closest ground point to the nearest 1/16”. You want to return the height loaded with WD back down close to the distance sitting unhitched which will confirm that the original weight is back on the front axle. You can’t move the truck while doing measurements and maintain accuracy using the bumper method. Ford guidance is to shoot for ½ of the distance between unhitched and hitched with no WD. I have always tried for 1/8 to ¼ inch up which should be very close to returning the unloaded weight back to the front axle. The WD setup for our first trailer done by the dealer was adjusted for rear squat—WRONG! It resulted in too little rear axle weight and spinning tires. Probably also too much front axle weight. Do not trust the dealer—they’re in a hurry for the next sale.
4. It is possible to have too much weight on a bumper hitch. My son hooked up a pole trailer to his F-350 dually, crew cab, long bed truck and loaded the trailer front heavy to make sure he had enough tongue weight. Out on the road at highway speed, sway shoved his truck right to left on a 3 lane interstate. He got it settled down and then sway pushed the truck back across the 3 lanes to the right. We believe that too little front axle weight was a large contributing factor. It was so scary that he started using WD and anti-sway on his 6000 lb. camping trailer.
5. If OP has any possibility of upgrading to a fifth wheel in the future, the 2021 solution should be a 350/3500 truck for adequate weight ratings for the heavier pin weights. Yes, the price difference is large for the little bit of equipment that changes, but the weight sticker will keep you out of trouble. Be sure to check licensing and insurance costs in your state as part of the decision.
6. IMHO the only thing air bags help with is rear swat with inadequate springs. OP says he is sitting level so likely not needed.
7. Ideally the trailer should be level to slightly nose down. If an adjustment is needed, then the only adjustment for that is changing the position on the shank bar, buying a different bar if needed. WD needs to be set up first and will need to be rechecked after a shank bar move.
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lenr
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07/08/20 09:09am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Should I convert my Gooseneck to a 5th wheel pin?
For less money and weight, how about developing some hitching aids? Back when I had a stock trailer I set up two potato chip bag clips with dowel rods sticking out of them (one on the trailer, one on the truck) such that I would be lined up left to right while backing. I could then get pretty close to the back up alignment by watching to distance between the sticks. After hitching up goosenecks or fifth wheels for 25 years, I still, usually, have to take a couple of swipes at it before things are well enough aligned--that back axle just doesn't want to jump side to side very quickly. There also are cameras and other hitching aids available commercially.
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lenr
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07/08/20 06:59am |
Towing
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RE: Disappointed in Disc Brakes
Thread rises from the dead--Maybe Final, final post:
Ford IBC: from my reading the Ford IBC only reduces brake signal at speeds under about 10 mph for a less jerky stop. The manual lever never reduces out for vehicle speed. Research from owner manuals over several years seem to indicate that the low, med, high aggressiveness setting showed up in the 2015 trucks. Ford makes a replacement IBC module that has an "improved" part number. Research with a Ford Service department indicated that installing the improved part would still not add the aggressiveness setting that I so desired. I really wanted to find a solution that would react to the amount of brake petal push, but finally gave up.
Prodigy P3 report: so I finally decided to try the P3. I could use the Prodigy adapter cable for a smooth plug in but I would need to have a Ford Service department deprogram the computer so it wouldn't through an error message for a missing IBC. So, I decided to manually install the P3 parallel to the IBC. I had to run all 4 wires to the sources and tap into the correct brake petal wire. Since I have the inside bed trailer wire connector in addition to the typical one mounted at the bumper, I split the brake control wire between the too connectors with the bed side to the P3. I now have two complete trailer brake systems that work depending on which connector that I plug into. Measuring the IBC max voltage back to the trailer (set just below tire skidding), I set the P3 gain to match. I found that the B1 boost setting would turn on the actuator at the slightest petal push--what I've been looking for! On the first test drive yesterday, I found the B3 highest boost gave the best balance between truck and trailer. It is not as smooth as IBC, but the more aggressive braking at a low petal actuation is also what I was looking for--this is the best solution that I've tried. And, I feel that I'm going to have the best emergency braking from this setup. Maybe someday I can afford the $70,000 fix--a new truck.
Bonus: I have a backup brake controller in the IBC if something goes wrong with my P3 installation.
Anyone interested in installation specifics may shoot me a private email.
Thanks for all the help along the way.
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lenr
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07/07/20 06:20pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need some help with equipment to boost internet
Part 2: We have a couple of techniques for streaming on weak WiFi. They both involve mirroring to a Roku plugged into the TV and apps installed on the cell phone such Netflix, CBS All Access, or Sling TV. I've found the Google Chromecast impossibly complicated to use and the Roku a piece of cake. Our "unlimited" Verizon plan doesn't slow down unless the network is congested and never slows down below 50 gigs--they have even bigger plans available. So, this works by streaming straight to the cell phone and mirroring it to the Roku. And of course this doesn't work if the cell phone signal is too weak. This does not use our Winegard Connect 2.0 4G because it uses a data plan with strict limits. If the cell service is weak, then I'll walk around the park looking for decent strength on their WiFi. Then I'll download straight to the cell phone. Not all shows allow downloading but many do. Then when we're watching TV in the evening, we just play back on the cell phone and mirror to the Roku.
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lenr
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07/05/20 10:08pm |
Technology Corner
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RE: Need some help with equipment to boost internet
We are finding campgrounds with decent WiFi including decent speed, but they are hit and miss. Some campgrounds are dropping cable TV and putting in better WiFi. We installed a Winegard Connect 2.0 4G which mounts up on the RV roof for better connections. It picks up either WiFi from the park or connects to a cellular 4G signal with data plans from AT&T, Verizon, or a pre-paid plan from Winegard that is a little more expensive. You have to program it to tell it what you want it to connect to, but the instructions are good. Regardless of the connection the Windgard re-broadcasts its own WiFi signal down into the RV. It works well, but still depends on some outside signal strength. Connected to a 4G signal, the data plan will determine your Gigs and speed. Our "unlimited" Verizon plan slows down to unusable after 15 Gigs so we almost never stream over it, but still use it for data.
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lenr
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07/05/20 09:47pm |
Technology Corner
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RE: RVing with no mechanical capability
My opinion--your may vary:
If OP has the money, go for it. A good place to find a reliable mobile RV mechanic is ask the campground management--likely they'll know good or bad. Anyone who is not mechanically comfortable should stay the heck away from gas or electric work. I would suggest anyone starting this adventure for the first time, stay with new or late model. Remember if shopping for new that the profit margin is 35% with a lot of room for negotiation.
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lenr
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06/19/20 02:37pm |
Beginning RVing
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RE: What's with Bio diesel?
When OP is considering trucks, in Ford land there were significant improvements in 2015 (better turbo and EGR cooler), 2017 (aluminum body), and 2020. The 2020 has improved torque and HP along with a 10 speed transmission. For the gas enthusiasts, the 2020 7.3 gas engine puts out almost as much HP with a very flat torque curve as long as you're willing to listen to a high revving engine. And, you get the 10 speed transmission along with no biodiesel worries.
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lenr
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06/15/20 06:13pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: What's with Bio diesel?
My opinion--yours may vary.
Ford and GM both modified their engines to be rated for 0% to 20% biodiesel in 2011. I believe that Ram Cummins went a few more years before that rating. B5 is generally thought to run in anything and Mercedes Van diesel carried that rating for a long time, maybe still. 2% to 4% biodiesel is thought to be very good for lubrication.
There have been many debates on the differences between F-250 and F-350. For single rear wheel vehicles, the only difference since 2012 Job 2 has been the price, the auxiliary spring in the rear, the chrome badge on the side, the spacing block on the rear axle (F-250 had 2" while F-350 had 4") and the VIN sticker. The weight rating is intentionally down rated to 9900 or 10,000 on F-250s so that some folks can get cheaper insurance and license tags. The early 2010 1/2 model of the 2011 F-250 may have used a lighter weight axle left over from the prior year--since then the axles have been the same. Sometime around the middle of the decade, Ford starting putting in taller spring spaces blocks so the F-250s don't squat under load as much as they used to. So late model F-250s can be upgraded to carry a heavier load with air bags, and many do that.
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lenr
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06/15/20 04:38pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: F250 3.73 to 4.30 axle ratio
My opinion--yours will vary
OP has a Ford 6R140 transmission with 3.97:1 first gear. It's hard for me to believe that more launch power is needed. The new Ford 10 speed has 4.615:1 for even more launch. There is no doubt that a higher axle ratio will improve the torque and HP in every single gear, but is it worth the cost? Only the OP can decide if it is worth it to him.
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lenr
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06/10/20 11:58am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: F250 3.73 to 4.30 axle ratio
My opinion--yours will vary.
Many folks (including a son and a cousin) have commented that the Ford 6.2 gas engine with the 6 speed transmission spend most of their time in 5th gear at highway speed--6th gear only comes when going down hill. The problem is inadequate HP in the lower RPM range of this engine. running in fifth is equivalent to changing the rear ratio from 3.73 to 4.79 with a 28% increase in wheel torque along with a corresponding increase in HP. I would save the money of the gear change (don't forget that the computer needs reprogrammed as well) and use it for a diesel or 7.3 gas engine someday. This transmission is designed for heavy hauling and running continuously in lower gears won't hurt it a bit. Use Towing Mode when towing. Lock out 6th if shifting up and down happens too often.
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lenr
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06/02/20 11:34am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: How much off MSRP now?
Just heard a report on NBC that RV sales are up. Guessing folks don't want to stay in motels so much. Also, when we were up North Monday, the staging lots are dramatically down in inventory, so transportation has been running. This does mean, however, that the discounts may not be all that great.
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lenr
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05/21/20 01:23pm |
General RVing Issues
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RE: How much off MSRP now?
We deal up in the RV territory of Northern IN, and our son lives just South of there, so we're up that way quite often. We took our trailer to the dealer on March 20 for warranty work including a furnace problem. It is still sitting there because practically the whole industry shut down on March 23. One of the problems at that time was a shortage of Chinese parts--one factory that our dealer uses was down to 3 days. In that area Dometic sends out factory repair for warranty work, and the techs haven't worked in 4 weeks. At the same time the transport lots of finished trailers that we passed were jammed full. So, the dealers may not be in a panic yet, since they'll be able to get stock off the transport lots for quite a while. Transport has been the bottle neck since the industry recovered from the last recession.
Be aware that the towable RV industry changes model years in March--our 2020 fifth wheel was built in March 2019. So, 2020 models on dealer lots are a model year old and should reflect a larger discount if a dealer is getting in 2021 models. The strongest bargaining tactic is to say no and walk away. Some dealers will drop price to make a sale and some won't. Our favorite dealer is wanarv.com. While their prices on line are pretty good, they'll go one step lower when you visit or call--generally about 30% off. But that is with no doc fee, no transport fee, no prep fee, no nothing (including a 31 day tag to get home). I've seen people come from Kansas to Canada to purchase there because they are so easy to deal with. Also, when the factories are running you can order exactly what you want with the good discount generally in about 2 months.
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lenr
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04/19/20 01:30pm |
General RVing Issues
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RE: Raising my 5th wheel
Correct Track will add leverage to the spring hanger. I had one almost rip the hanger off in an emergency braking incident. I took them off and had MORryde install riser tubes. LT215/85-16 tires will add some height--I used them on the trailer with 33" spacing. Of course that depends on the OP being willing to use LT instead of ST. A sub-frame is by far the strongest. The MORryde SRE4000 equalizer will raise the trailer about 1" and give a smoother ride to the trailer at the same time. The SRE4000 needs 3" of clearance before installation (after larger tires).
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lenr
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04/10/20 10:43am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Finished installing Kodiak 6K disc brakes
Apologies to the OP for diverting this thread to a slightly different issue. Yes, I am still using the built-in Ford controller. It supplies very proportional voltage to the amount of brake pedal push, and works reasonably well. My only reason for considering a Prodigy is the ability to increase the initial voltage disproportionately higher than the amount of pedal push to get the actuator pump running on light braking, and get the initial delay done with. If my 2012 truck had the controller aggressiveness setting that later Ford trucks had, I would likely have no need to make the change.
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lenr
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03/13/20 08:20am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Finished installing Kodiak 6K disc brakes
Slight delay in disk brake actuation seems to be extremely common and accepted by many as just the way it works. I also believe that the turn on voltage of the actuator may also affect the sensation of delay. In my case upon light braking the engine brake works well enough that I don't have to push the pedal very hard which in turn doesn't send enough voltage back to turn on the actuator. Then, if the rig is not slowing enough and I push harder, I experience a slight delay as the actuator pump finally turns on and builds pressure. The Titan actuator I am using now has a distinctly lower turn on voltage than the Dexter that I started with. Had a thread on this back on 7/16/19: https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29930221/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1 Eventually, I plan on installing a Prodigy to see if I can set it to turn on as soon as I touch the brake petal, keeping it on through the entire braking process.
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lenr
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03/12/20 02:02pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Superduty Death Wobble
I experienced “Death Wobble” at 85K miles due to worn parts. No more problems for 40K miles. I’ll have it back in the shop soon for another checkup. Following a Ford forum, it seems to me that early “Death Wobble” problems at low miles are typically fixed under warranty with no following problems (until you wear things out again.) The folks who have no problems don’t post. Note: a Rancho steering stabilizer that I installed at 65K miles was all but worn out at 85K miles. The replacement Ford OEM stabilizer that went on then, was much stiffer.
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lenr
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03/06/20 07:37am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: MOR Ryde X Factor Frame Strengthening
I installed after-market Correct Track and Equa-Flex on a prior trailer. I never noticed an improvement by the Equa-Flex (from a solid equalizer), and the Correct Track’s extra leverage all but ripped a spring hanger off during panic braking. Next was SRE4000 and riser tubes installed by MORRyde. SRE4000 was night and day difference—great! In combination with a MORRyde pin box, the chucking was 98% gone. MORRyde all but insists on the X-Factor on the center pair of hangers. I was impressed enough to install SRE4000 and 3 X-Factors on the next trailer. No problems so far. I went with X-Factor for removability. Note: when OP gets around to the SRE4000 it will raise the trailer about 1”. For me that helped level the fifth wheel and allow for larger, higher capacity, tires.
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lenr
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03/06/20 07:30am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Motorcraft 10W30, 5W40, Rotella or Mobil 1 for 6.7
Didn't see it mentioned above-->> My 2012 says 10W-30 is not approved for BioDiesel from B6 - B20. That may have changed in recent years. But, 5W-40 full synthetic solves all the problems, so I just run that. Rotella now makes a T6 15W-40 oil, so don't confuse that with the 5W-40. Ford's spec is for 5W-40.
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lenr
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03/05/20 04:24pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Buying F350 with an eye towards the future
An F-350 sits high in the rear and is designed to come down under load. When our 6500 trailer was attached to our F-350 it dropped only a little, barely touching the aux springs. It still was slightly high in the rear. And, as said before, I still used WD to return weight to the front axle for better steering. Air bags only increase the rear spring capacity. While that makes the truck look level, it does nothing to return weight to the front. The big truck manufacturers all have a trailer weight rating when not using WD and a 7000 lb. trailer is likely under that rating. But, steering and safety will be increased by using WD.
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lenr
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02/16/20 08:08am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Buying F350 with an eye towards the future
Changing the position of the ball mount on the shank is the only way to level the trailer even if you have to buy a longer shank to drop more (which is what I had to do). Then after you change the mount height you almost always have to readjust the WD. With systems that use chains one must be sure to have enough length for turns (Reese recommends at least 5 links under tension).
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lenr
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02/16/20 07:50am |
Tow Vehicles
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