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RE: Ford Lightning Fire
Here's a video of a Ford Lightning that caught on fire which forced Ford to stop production. Looks like fire fighters need special training to handle these type of fires as this could be a serious issue
LinkThese type of fires should be less common, less severe, once Ford transitions to lifepo4 chemistry. Lifepo4 is much less likely to suffer *external* thermal runaway. Tesla started transitioning to lifepo4 a year or so ago.
All the fire risks associated with different lithium chemistries have been well known for many, many years. You would think Ford, starting with a clean design slate, would have gone with lifepo4 from the beginning.
Another reason to shy away from purchasing 1st gen products.
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otrfun
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04/23/23 10:04am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Ford Lightning Fire
Check your serial numbers folks.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/park-outside-gm-recalls-40-162347591.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cDovL20uZmFjZWJvb2suY29tLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHcBp77enM6e_qtI0go8OOrglgMeNMOiwABUF_WC-ho5fJ7HmFi5mle9kL_yfn0oVBt-_llrhfRTKVY0im3oRpJLpqURjmdl_wdZ9BblcjODzBMOtMZneUV6EzWDvDhE5eL_N-tVdPUglhagjX0qk7CVvmtc3ICDsXOcU5bhjhWWInteresting. Our neighbor just had their 2022 Chevy Silverado 1500 catch on fire this weekend in their driveway. If they had been parked in their garage it could have burned their house down. Crazy.
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otrfun
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04/23/23 09:29am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Micro Air
Oops.
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otrfun
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04/15/23 03:46pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Honda EU3200 - 15k BTU AC Unit?
BTW, if you read any of my posts over the last few years (including the above three posts), I always make a point of referencing inrush current and LRA together (at least once) when discussing a/c compressors. I always do this to try and avoid any possible confusion. I assume you either missed it or you found it confusing?I wasn’t confused, nor was I pointing out your ‘well put’ post, just trying to add a finer point of clarity for what’s often the uninitiated in the audience…
3 tonsThanks for the clarification.
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otrfun
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04/14/23 06:51pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Honda EU3200 - 15k BTU AC Unit?
I agree on the Micro-air, in my view a ‘must have’ and even with the micro-air, I upgraded from a Honda 2000 to a 2200 ($$), and due to elevation and/or higher ambient temps, and additional headroom - my point being, avoid scrimping on a generator because repurchasing is expensive!!
Also, in my case the pass-thru inverter would reject generator operation (and take over the load) as it saw ‘eco mode’ as a defective shore power condition…Adding another ATS as a work-around cured this nagging malady…BTW, to avoid any possible confusion, my air cond amperage spec’s refer to inrush as ‘LRA’ (Locked Rotor Amps) - just saying…
3 tonsWe also use a Honda 2200. Great unit, but yes, $$$.
Yup, your load-sharing was simply doing its job. It sensed the voltage drop, but had no idea whether it was going to recover or not, so it took over the entire load. It only had 10-20ms to make a decision--lol!
A similar problem occurs with the PI EMS's---even if the protection features are turned off. If the voltage drops below 95-100, the entire PI EMS shuts-down (voltage too low to operate the circuitry), opening the relay, preventing the generator from starting the a/c.
BTW, if you read any of my posts over the last few years (including the above three posts), I always make a point of referencing inrush current and LRA together (at least once) when discussing a/c compressors. I always do this to try and avoid any possible confusion. I assume you either missed it or you found it confusing?
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otrfun
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04/14/23 04:14pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Honda EU3200 - 15k BTU AC Unit?
@Otrfun, correct it only helps with current inrush unlike the Microair . . . They *both* lower inrush current (LRA). However, the Micro Air is 10-20 times more effective at lowering the LRA than a Supco Soft Start Cap electrolytic capacitor.
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otrfun
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04/14/23 11:22am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Honda EU3200 - 15k BTU AC Unit?
I would plan on sizing a generator that’s able to run the air conditioner while in the ‘eco’ mode.
3 tonsAll my continuous current recommendations assumed a Micro Air Easy Start was installed. LRA typically drops to 15-25a with one installed. With an LRA this low, starting in ECO mode is pretty much a given for the vast majority of 2000+ watt inverter generators. This assumes the generator is in good operating condition and it can support the a/c's continuous current reqt.
But, more to your point, sizing a generator that's able to run an a/c in ECO mode (without a Micro Air) can only be accomplished by trial and error. Not sure that's feasible unless you purchase a generator from a retailer with a liberal return policy like Costco. Although a/c manufacturers nearly always specify LRA (inrush current) ratings for their compressors, generator manufacturers rarely, if ever, advertise inrush current ratings. Even if two generators have the same continuous current ratings, their inrush current capability can be radically different.
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otrfun
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04/14/23 10:56am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Honda EU3200 - 15k BTU AC Unit?
I have a supco soft start on the AC unit already - which is how, I can get the 2000 to get the AC going; However, if i'm altitude or it's really hot, after 20 minutes it overloads the 2000's surge capacity.
Hence i'm looking at a bigger unit . . . Is this *Supco* Soft Start you're referring to an aluminum-cased electrolyitc capacitor? If it is, they're only capable of reducing inrush current a few amps---very ineffective. A Micro Air Easy Start, a plastic box with circuitry inside, can reduce inrush current (LRA) as much as 25-40 amps. This is a massive, huge difference in capability.
Soft starts aside, to give you a clearer picture of your power needs, I'd suggest looking up the continuous current rating for your a/c unit. Or, better yet, use an AC clamp-on ammeter to verify the continuous current while it's operating.
A BTU rating only gives a very general idea of an a/c unit's power needs. Some of the more efficient 15k BTU a/c units can draw less continuous current than some 13.5k BTU a/c's. If the continuous current rating/reading is less than 13a, and a MAES is used/installed, most 2000w inverter generators (in good running condition) should power it. If it's less than 15a, the newer 2200w Honda generator should power it.
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otrfun
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04/14/23 08:04am |
Tech Issues
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RE: RAM EV
Interesting, 8 bolt axles/wheels and 2700 lbs. of payload. 14k tow capacity.
Also, the airbag suspension, I assume, probably has a "low-rider" mode which reduces drag to extend range on the freeway.
Pretty impressive. It'll be very interesting to see how far it can tow 14k though.Also cannot find any publication of the curb weight. It must be a very heavy battery pack to boast that kind of range which will affect registration fees and insurance rates negatively. (GVWR rating)Price tag must be very high and charge time.
The Ford EV weighs over 6500, and the gmc hummer an obscene +9000 pounds which is almost as much as my 1998 Ram with my 10 foot Lance camper on board!
A new F350 dually curb weight is in the 7200 lb range (gas) as a comparison with well over 4000 pounds payload capacity.I see the added weight as more of a positive than negative. Yes, bigger batteries means more weight, but more importantly it means more range. Rather doubt the added weight will be a stability issue---battery packs are generally positioned very low in the chassis. EV motors produce massive amounts of torque and HP, so pushing this additional weight around is certainly not an issue. The added momentum should improve regenerative braking. I see more pros than cons.
As for registration fees, with various levels of govt pushing for a quick transition to EV's, I'd be surprised if they penalized EV truck owners over weight. If anything, to incentivize the fastest possible transition, I could see registration fees for EV's decreasing, while registration fees for FF (fossil fuel) vehicles increase.
You mentioned charge times. I believe it's a legitimate concern. It only takes a few min to fuel up an empty FF vehicle. I believe this will be the most difficult issue for manufacturers to resolve to the satisfaction of current FF vehicle owners.
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otrfun
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04/13/23 10:56am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Need Solar Guru Help!
Don't have a clamp on meter, mppt programmed to BB recommendationsThat's too bad. It's very hard to properly troubleshoot a system like yours without a DC clamp-on ammeter. Good luck.Sorry I don't have the right tools for you to help me. I will purchase one when I am somewhere where I can get one. I'm currently on the road. Thanks anyway.You're welcome. No apologies necessary. Do what works best for you. Be safe!
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otrfun
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04/12/23 07:45pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need Solar Guru Help!
Don't have a clamp on meter, mppt programmed to BB recommendationsThat's too bad. It's very hard to properly troubleshoot a system like yours without a DC clamp-on ammeter. Good luck.
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otrfun
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04/12/23 05:46pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need Solar Guru Help!
That's what i am looking at at night, a shunt monitor. I don't need/want to calculate SOC based on V. I'm just looking at what the monitor is telling me and trying to figure out why it's reading 13.2v instead of 13.3 or 13.4 after charging all day.I assume all the voltage and current readings you're referencing were taken from the battery monitor display and/or Victron controller?
Me, I'd verify charge current (mid-day sun with max charge current) at the battery terminal (before the shunt if measuring at the neg terminal) with a DC clamp-on ammeter. I'd also verify battery charge voltage (mid-day sun with max charge current) at the battery terminal (before the shunt if measuring at the neg terminal) with a voltmeter.
I'd make the same voltage/current checks while doing a high c discharge with your inverter, too.
Do these readings correspond with the voltage/current readings on your monitor (charge and discharge) and/or controller (charge only)?
Did you program your Victron controller with any specific charge profile or voltage(s)?
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otrfun
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04/12/23 05:25pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need Solar Guru Help!
lifepo4's not needing absorption---that was the lifepo4 charging philosophy a 2-3 years ago when nearly all lifepo4 converters/chargers were single-stage 14.6v (no absorption or float stage). Also interesting is the 48v Dakota charger appears to have bulk only, so perhaps it depends on the kind of Li battery. But, I'm getting off the subject.Very possible. Many times manufacturers will recommend different operational specs based on a battery's specific application.
More to my point . . . if a standard lifepo4 (lithium iron phosphate) cell (with a typical 2.5v LVD and 3.65v HVD) is used by a battery manufacturer, and the manufacturer recommends only bulk charging at 14.6v, I assure you they're recommending this at the expense of cycle life. Charging a lifepo4 cell at 3.65v (Maximum Rated Charge Voltage), or a 12v lifepo4 battery at 14.6v, 24/7/365, will reduce cycle life short-term, and permanently damage the cell/battery long-term.
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otrfun
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04/12/23 04:46pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need Solar Guru Help!
Many 12v lifepo4 voltage/SOC charts show 13.20v (resting voltage) as equivalent to 70% SOC. The key here is "resting voltage".Ok so the 13.2 is not really "resting", then would the actual "resting" voltage show a higher voltage or less?After charging, final resting voltage will be lower. After discharging, final resting voltage will be higher. Higher charge/discharge current means a greater voltage delta (difference) to reach a given resting voltage.
Why do you need/want to calculate SOC based on voltage? A shunt-type battery monitor (properly calibrated) will calculate SOC much more accurately.
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otrfun
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04/12/23 04:29pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need Solar Guru Help!
The 1.8 amps sounds more like the 120v side. 13.2 is more than 70% on any chart I've seen. I did not know any Li battery needed absorption.Can you please post a chart that shows 13.2v is not 70% for Lithium batteries? If it's not 70% what is it? . . . Many 12v lifepo4 voltage/SOC charts show 13.20v (resting voltage) as equivalent to 70% SOC. The key here is "resting voltage".
If you're going to use a lifepo4 voltage/SOC chart to determine SOC, you must have zero charge/discharge current (ideally by disconnecting the battery entirely). Then you must let the voltage stabilize to a final resting voltage before taking a voltage reading. Depending on the situation, it can take anywhere from a few minutes to a few days to reach the final resting voltage.
As for 2oldman's comment about lifepo4's not needing absorption---that was the lifepo4 charging philosophy a 2-3 years ago when nearly all lifepo4 converters/chargers were single-stage 14.6v (no absorption or float stage). These days it's common knowledge you can damage a lifepo4 subjecting it to a 14.6v bulk mode indefinitely. Thus, the need for an absorption voltage. Many recommend 13.2v - 13.6v. There are still a lot of single-stage 14.6v lifepo4 converter/chargers on the market. Highly recommend purchasing a 2-3 stage converter/charger instead.
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otrfun
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04/12/23 01:03pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Need Solar Guru Help!
I'd suggest checking/verifying load/discharge (-) and charge (+) current separately by measuring current on the appropriate wires/cables with a DC clamp-on ammeter (during the day and at night). Your battery monitor only provides the sum total of both, which doesn't give you a clear picture of what's going on. It's also possible your battery monitor is inaccurate or mis-calibrated. A DC clamp-on ammeter would help confirm the accuracy of the battery monitor's current readings.
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otrfun
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04/12/23 11:34am |
Tech Issues
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RE: RAM EV
Interesting, 8 bolt axles/wheels and 2700 lbs. of payload. 14k tow capacity.
Also, the airbag suspension, I assume, probably has a "low-rider" mode which reduces drag to extend range on the freeway.
Pretty impressive. It'll be very interesting to see how far it can tow 14k though.
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otrfun
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04/06/23 10:52am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: batteies
And to think, the OP just wanted to know if he could put Li batteies in his camper…..:SActually the OP (ck1246) only had a question about using his current converter. Everything was reasonably on topic until these last two posts about thermal runaway.
My house batteies went bad this winter. Can replace with lithium batteies. Will they work with my converter?
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otrfun
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04/02/23 06:52pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Make line on driveway for camper loading?
Wow, gotta be more than "50 ways to" load your camper--lol!
We attach strings between the front/rear jack legs on each side, using wide painter's tape--takes about a min. As we backup, we use the ends of all four torklift extensions, the strings, and jack legs as guides. Since this is a 4-point approach, it's makes it easier to get an accurate parallel and side-to-side alignment between the truck and camper. Usually 1 or 2 corrections and we're in. Works great for us! YMMV.
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otrfun
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04/01/23 04:54pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: batteies
. . . maybe you can explain this, is why it is such a big deal to have a second stage. When I am camping in the bush the charge isn't running, so it's no big deal. With LiFePo4 everyone is so adamant about not storing them at a full charge so we shouldn't be leaving them on charge anyways when we are not using the unit. and the final category if you camp in power sites mostly, well then why did you spend money on LFP? and if you only camp with power once and a while, just turn off the charger breaker and you don't need to worry about it . . . No, not necessarily do you need 14.6v, for instance my BMS will start balancing at higher than 13.6V but for me the cell manufacture recommends charging at a constant 14.6 and then cutting the voltage when the state of charge is reached. Considering they are one of the biggest prismatic cell manufactures, I would assume they know what they're talking about and that is how I set up my system. I do play with it to see how it behaves in different situations though . . . . Not sure if you realize it, but all this monitoring, "cutting the voltage" and "turning off the charger breaker" that you recommend doing while using a single-stage 14.6v converter would not be necessary with a 2-3 stage converter. IMO, a converter should be able to safely and efficiently charge/maintain a lifepo4 battery for weeks, months at a time . . . with ZERO user input. This is exactly what a multi-stage (2-3 stage) converter does well.
StirCrazy, here's a simple analogy that hopefully answers your question why I feel a converter with 2-3 stages is a really a "big deal" . . . and why a single stage 14.6v converter is such a bad deal.
Using a single-stage (one voltage) 14.6v converter to charge a 12v lifepo4 battery is roughly equivalent to driving a car at redline. To clarify, 14.6v subjects the cells in a 12v lifepo4 battery to 3.650v---the Maximum Rated Charge Voltage for 3.2v lifepo4 cells . . . this is roughly equivalent to driving a car with a Maximum Rated RPM (redline) of 6000---at 6000 RPM. Sure you can drive a car at redline for short periods of time. You can also charge (float) a lifepo4 battery at its maximum rated charge voltage for short periods of time, too. No immediate damage occurs in either case. However . . . common sense says . . . "redlining" a car or subjecting a battery to its maximum rated charge voltage, for extended periods of time (accidentally or otherwise), presents a much higher risk of permanent damage occuring. If you're the set-it & forget-it type, and forget to turn-off a single-stage 14.6v converter while using FHU's for a month or so, you run the risk damaging your lifepo4 battery. For folks like yourself who monitor their battery & converter closely, this risk is lower. However, I would surmise most folks would prefer not to be babysitting converters and batteries while they're on vacation---I know we'd prefer not to.
In any event, NONE of the above risks exist when charging with a 2-3 stage converter (with the proper voltages)---even if the converter and lifepo4 battery are left unattended for weeks, months at time. It negates these risks by automatically activating a completely safe, lower float voltage as soon as the lifepo4 battery is fully charged.
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otrfun
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04/01/23 09:53am |
Tech Issues
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