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RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

No, your truck did not leave the factory full of fuel. Your selling dealer may fill fuel (mine does). With so many pages of opinions, some facts, can be misleading. Throw in a forum of armchair legal advisors, makes it more difficult than it needs to be. Your truck's GCVWR, allows for towing a 15K GN/FW, that is a fact! Your RAWR, which includes tires/wheels, axle, and suspension, dictates the load you can carry. I and others, said way early in this thread, that after getting separate axle weights, when no trailer connected, will tell you how much more you can add to the rear axle, in your case, the gooseneck trailer hitch wt. You have a very capable truck! Again...getting a new gas truck, is your choice, but while it may show a larger number on that payload sticker, your RAWR will be similar, and is what matters. Jerry Well MFL you are also giving a forum legal opinion. To a fact the 15,000# towing rating is what the truck is rated to pull, it may not be able to carry the pin weight associated with that weight. Any F2500 I have read about on this and other forums that even get near max axle rating needed air bags to level due to Ford putting soft rear springs on them. You also make this statement "Your RAWR, which includes tires/wheels, axle, and suspension, dictates the load you can carry." you have forgotten frame. In 2021 Ford and GM have started upping the GVWR of 250/2500's to as high as 11,500# at which point they are now a Class 3 truck and should be labeled as 350/3500! Yes, legal opinions, are just that, and is why the manufacturer supplies axle rating. I think Spoon already explained to you, that the frame is very capable of handling anything the axle/tires can handle. You don't seem to be familiar with Ford trucks, especially the F250, such as the one I own. I ordered mine with F350 suspension, heavy duty service option. My truck does not need anything added to carry 6,200 on R/A , with very little squat. Many F250s have the added camper pkg, which is 350 suspension with sway bar. Your views have changed a lot since getting your DRW 3500, which is a great choice for you. Everyone does not choose to have more truck than they need. Would a class 3 truck be a better choice for OP? Yes, if he decides to get a new truck. The truck he already owns, will work great, if he stays within R/A, and max tire rating. Jerry Well I was a Ford exclusive owner for 45 years, that changed when I wanted a diesel, I wasn’t going to buy a 6.0, and I felt the Cummins was a better engine and worth the gamble on the Dodge wrapper. I have not been disappointed. Well from 1994 to 2002 Dodge/Ram didn’t offer a SRW 3500 the 2500 with camper package and optional 265/85-16E tires gave it plenty of capacity NONE of which I was reflected in the VIN sticker front axle 5,200#, rear axle 6,084# and GVWR 8,800#. The camper package included the same rear springs as the 3500 DRW, tires rated at 3,415# ea. The standard tires were 245/75-16E rated at 3,042# ea. I towed our 5er within about 200# of rating and never had a need for bags, GVW was 10,500# so 1,700# over GVWR. I just wasn’t comfortable being in legal limbo. As to the current TV if I would have bought a 3500 SRW I likely would have been right at GVWR of 12,300#. We and our stuff carried in the truck weighs 1,400# and a 2,700# pin is 4,200# a payload I don’t think F350 SRW diesel, crew cab, long before 2021 could cover as the max GVWR was 11,500#. Why didn’t Ford step up their GVWR on the SRW 3500’s to 12,300# or 12,400# before 2021 Kyle it be the frame?? So I really don’t have more TV than I need.
rhagfo 01/17/21 02:35pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

No, your truck did not leave the factory full of fuel. Your selling dealer may fill fuel (mine does). With so many pages of opinions, some facts, can be misleading. Throw in a forum of armchair legal advisors, makes it more difficult than it needs to be. Your truck's GCVWR, allows for towing a 15K GN/FW, that is a fact! Your RAWR, which includes tires/wheels, axle, and suspension, dictates the load you can carry. I and others, said way early in this thread, that after getting separate axle weights, when no trailer connected, will tell you how much more you can add to the rear axle, in your case, the gooseneck trailer hitch wt. You have a very capable truck! Again...getting a new gas truck, is your choice, but while it may show a larger number on that payload sticker, your RAWR will be similar, and is what matters. Jerry Well MFL you are also giving a forum legal opinion. To a fact the 15,000# towing rating is what the truck is rated to pull, it may not be able to carry the pin weight associated with that weight. Any F2500 I have read about on this and other forums that even get near max axle rating needed air bags to level due to Ford putting soft rear springs on them. You also make this statement "Your RAWR, which includes tires/wheels, axle, and suspension, dictates the load you can carry." you have forgotten frame. In 2021 Ford and GM have started upping the GVWR of 250/2500's to as high as 11,500# at which point they are now a Class 3 truck and should be labeled as 350/3500!
rhagfo 01/17/21 06:46am Tow Vehicles
RE: Trailer too long for truck?

YEP, a 1500 can tow it but can it "HANDLE" it in unforeseen conditions. How is it less safe to pull a (the OP) 9-10klb trailer with a 6000lb+ truck rated to tow 11k, than pulling almost 30k with a 8000lb + truck rated to tow almost 30k? Seems like you are both at roughly the same % of max capacity... Two major differences. #1 Cummins12v98 is towing a 5th wheel which is 100% more stable than a TT in cross winds and not affected by semi's bow waves. #2 He also has four tires under the hitch, six total.
rhagfo 01/17/21 06:17am Tow Vehicles
RE: Removable 5th wheel hitch?

What year is the Ram 3500? Post 2013 you can get the parts to install the factory 5er hitch prep.
rhagfo 01/16/21 08:30pm Fifth-Wheels
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

............ I will never exceed my axle ratings as rated by Ram. My AAM rear axle is rated for 10,120 lbs by AAM, but derated to 6500 lbs as an assembly by Ram. Then because its a Class 2B truck, it's derated by regulation to essentially 5000 lbs. My front axle is rated 6000 lbs by Ram, then because its a Class 2B its derated to essentially 5000 lbs. You can sue me because my truck weighed 11,000 lbs and claim its "overloaded" according to regulation. I can easily argue that Ram rates my truck to hold 12,500 lbs, and it was not overloaded, it was simply under-registered. Now the petitioner has the burden of proof to show that being over my "sticker" weight and under my manufacturer ratings was overloaded. To make your argument even weaker, in Maryland I can pay to register my 10,000 GVWR truck at a higher rate, thus making it a 12,500 GVWR truck... perfectly legal to drive down the highway. Well with the Ram 2500 to 3500 you have an unknown in that they have different frames. As far as axle manufacture ratings go the full floating axles used in HD pickups for years going back to to the late 90’s, most have had a rating over 10k, it is the trucks frame that comes into play.
rhagfo 01/16/21 12:59pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Trailer too long for truck?

. . . the length of the trailer has no affect on the tow vehicle . . . Definitely disagree. A 33 ft. TT has a lot of real estate on each side. Acts like a big sail when there's high side winds. The only thing that counters that twisting/swaying motion brought on by high side winds is the sheer weight of the truck. The heavier the TV the more stability. We've towed a few 30+ ft 8k-10k TT's with a 1/2-ton (5.5k weight) and 1-ton SRW truck (8.2k weight). The 1-ton SRW truck's almost 3k of additional weight brings a lot more stability to the table when there's high winds. Lastly, even a trailer that only weighs 8k-10k could be handful for 1-ton SRW truck with a tow rating of 16k **IF** the side surface of the trailer is extremely high with high side winds. At some point excessive side surface area on a trailer can easily make the truck's tow rating completely moot. Long TT can really affect the TV, in both side winds and with passing semis. It is the fact the pivot point on the TV is 3' to 4' aft of the TV's rear axle that will contribute to sway.
rhagfo 01/15/21 06:09am Tow Vehicles
RE: Making Oil

Leaking injector. Smell the oil. Drive it normal a few days and check again would be telling. That or immediately send an oil sample to the lab. https://www.blackstone-labs.com Or we can just speculate... It is usually fuel contamination, which can have many causes. I have my oil analyzed at every change at Blackstone Labs.
rhagfo 01/15/21 06:01am Tow Vehicles
RE: Wall mount electric heater

stiebel-eltron-electric-fan-wall-heater-1500w-w-120vac Hard wired to fuse box. Works great. Have had it for awhile no problem. Link Interesting wiring call out 15 amp breaker 12 gauge wire. Nice looking unit.
rhagfo 01/15/21 05:53am General RVing Issues
RE: Wall mount electric heater

One of the small Pelonis ceramic disk cube heaters works well. Safer than an exposed flame heat source and no CO. Mine is maybe 8"x8"x8" and I never find it to be in the way. It's easily moved to whatever area you are in. We also have a Vornado heater that heats very well too. They come in a couple sizes. I find we use the Vornado more than anything else when I don't want to turn on the furnace. OP stated that he has a small Duraflame portable electric hearer and it is always in the way. I don't like them, because of using the cheap RV outlets with a high draw appliance. Our toilet room gets cold when it is below 40 outside, I have looked at piping heat from our furnace in there, but would loose basement space. I may get a 600 watt toe kick heater and place under a set of drawers in the toilet room.
rhagfo 01/14/21 07:36am General RVing Issues
RE: Wall mount electric heater

What about the ones that look like a glade plug in? Those little direct plug in heaters are very low wattage and probably wouldn't keep the RV warm enough. Analog RV Thermostats aren't very good at regulating temperature. If that's what you have for your furnace, consider switching to a digital model. I show how I did it in this video A few months later I upgraded to a Bluetooth model Agree 100% on a digital T-stat, much better temperature control. Something to consider depending on the layout of your trailer, is a toe kick electric heater in a 600 to 1,500 watt size. Toe kick heater
rhagfo 01/14/21 06:54am General RVing Issues
RE: Filling large propane tank on the road

A bit colder here in the south than I was expecting and using significant amount of propane. I have built in 24 gal tank and wanted to ask how everyone finds local sources for propane fill ups. Any experience with delivery, or too expensive to consider? Upper 20's at night with highs in the 30's-40's in GA and Alabama for past few weeks and we just started full timing. Brrrrr. Appreciate the help. Well we full time and before starting this adventure we install a Cheap Heat system from RV Comfort Systems, this is an electric add on system to your existing gas furnace. Cheap Heat
rhagfo 01/12/21 03:57pm Beginning RVing
RE: Ram 3500 with factory airbags

So one more post to add clarity. The 1st gen of the Ram Air Suspension came out in 2013 or 2014 and looked like the picture below. https://i.imgur.com/5IdTXAo.jpg width=640 Then in 2018 they appear to have made changes to make the addition of the Air Suspension a easier process. Now instead of having to add a bracket to the frame for the upper link arm, now it all goes in the leaf spring brackets. Now there are basically traction bars under the single leaf to prevent axle wrap. That bar only goes forward of the axle. https://i.imgur.com/P0cEm9y.jpg width=640
rhagfo 01/12/21 02:36pm Truck Campers
RE: Ram 3500 with factory airbags

it does exist as I have one. I have a 5K+ camper on the truck and you can look at picture I posted of the overload spring and they are not being used with 5K+ sitting on truck. I measured the distance from trailer ball to ground before and after loading camper and it measures the same. I cannot say for sure but seems as tho this is a full air suspension rear end. I don’t think the lower leafs with the bumper is an overload spring. I believe it replaces the link arm of the earlier version to prevent axle wrap. Looking at the design, with the newer version there is no difference in the frame, no need for a link arm bracket.
rhagfo 01/12/21 12:20pm Truck Campers
RE: Ram 3500 with factory airbags

lots of replies on here have never seen the ram air suspension. . Neither did you. It doesn't exist. The pictured is mixed suspension aka hybrid. Probably called air suspension to fool uneducated buyers. Well it does exist, just slightly different way of locating the axle. While you believe that to be a true air suspension it requires a four link with trak bar to locate the rear axle. Ram uses a single leaf spring to locate the axle. The weight on the rear axle is still carried on the bags.
rhagfo 01/12/21 09:44am Truck Campers
RE: Ram 3500 with factory airbags

To the OP, your signature states 2017 Ram 3500 DRW. Did you just purchase a new 2021 to replace it, or did you just buy the 2017 and were told it had factory air? I just change my signature, it is a 2020. Well after a bit of looking I finally found a picture of the 2018 rear air, I have pictures of it when it first came out, but only single spring. Based on the picture below, the "Overloads" you refer to are most likely in improvement to limit axle wrap on hard acceleration. https://i.imgur.com/P0cEm9y.jpg width=640
rhagfo 01/12/21 06:51am Truck Campers
RE: Ram 3500 with factory airbags

To the OP, your signature states 2017 Ram 3500 DRW. Did you just purchase a new 2021 to replace it, or did you just buy the 2017 and were told it had factory air?
rhagfo 01/11/21 10:58pm Truck Campers
RE: Ram 3500 with factory airbags

I don’t understand, the Ram air suspension is just that two light leaf springs to locate the rear axle, and air bags to support the load. There should not be any “overload springs”. This system is just like air suspension on a semi, the air bad supports the full load, the springs like the tram bars on a semi locate the axle.
rhagfo 01/11/21 09:55pm Truck Campers
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Ford does not mention payload capacity anywhere outside of the max cargo weight (limit) for the 2016 towing guide (that I can find anyway). It also doesn't give you the assumed curb weight of the vehicle you bought. All I have on the driver door sticker is front GAWR, rear GAWR and GVWR numbers. The towing guide talks about conventional (bumper pull) towing limit (14,000 lbs) and gooseneck/5w towing limit (15,100 lbs). I suppose they expect you to take the truck to the scales and figure out where you are with your particular trailer and look at the GAWR calculation (as Jerry described). Wow! You have a 2016 F250 with no payload sticker. Even my 2008 Explorer has one. The white GVWR/GAWR sticker is required by law, not certain about the payload one. My 2001 Jeep TJ does not have the payload sticker. The yellow “Payload Sticker” has been a requirement since 2006, has the door been repaired or replaced.
rhagfo 01/11/21 05:11pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Do any hotels/chains offer RV spots with electric or hookups

While I was working I traveled a lot for work, I would stay in big cities and small towns the closest I ever saw in Fairbanks, AK, but the plug in were for block heaters. Most hotels have tight parking lots to begin with, can’t see adding RV sites.
rhagfo 01/11/21 10:44am RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Towing capacity vs max cargo weight rating

Thanks. So to translate in English, there are gooseneck trailers that could weigh 15,100 lbs but weigh much less than 1790 lbs on the pin. They are just not RVs and horse trailers with living quarters. In order to be legal and under the max requirements for towing a living quarters horse trailer, one should move to a truck that can handle the load properly - as in handle a payload of 25% of the gooseneck GVWR on the pin. This is a 10,000 GVWR 6.7L 3/4 powerstroke (2016), 4x4 with a crew cab (all payload detracting factors). It has a max towing capacity (gooseneck/5w) of 15,100 and max payload of 1792 (as per Ford's towing guide). I have been debating moving to one of the new gassers since they seem to have a better towing/payload rating, are cheaper to maintain etc. The trailer has a GVWR of 12,700 lbs (so realistically 25% of that is 3,200 lbs - which is right near the max for the similarly configured gasser 6.6L Chevy or 7.3L Ford). It is only my wife and I so we have the 450lbs "left over" on the truck payload for the remaining 3 adults calculated/assumed in the payload rating provided by the manufacturer(s). Thank you all for the replies. I think I am just going to go to the scales and get the weights in front and back and calculate max payload. I think after reading the discussion, I am comfortable with this. Thanks :) Well first of all you state the GVWR of your GN Horse trailer with Living Quarters, how many horse, and how large is the LQ area. The question arises what kind of towing experience do you want? 12,700# GVWR of the horse trailer figure 25% as pin, and you have 3,175#, that is about the maximum payload of a F350 SRW, and you still have stuff and people to add to the truck. You should be looking at a good DRW TV, forget a SRW. I would also forget a gasser, you might get by with it in Florida, but it will be working hard in any hills. So I personally had to deal with this with my DD, and she ended up with a 2004 Ram 3500 DRW it has a 4,500# payload, and is happy with her 4 horse with small LQ, fine. We towed it home with our old 2500, and it scaled at about 2,700# pin empty. See picture below. As to the legality of towing over GVWR, no, you likely will not get a ticket if over GVWR, BUT do you want to take a chance if in an crash, your fault or NOT, having a personal injury lawyer coming after you for a large amount of money?? Many on here will say never heard of an RV overweight lawsuit, well just how many lawsuits make the news. Seeing how it is stated many times in owners manuals, and towing guides state it is unsafe to exceed any of the weight ratings. https://i.imgur.com/l3JQdMN.jpg width=640
rhagfo 01/10/21 10:33pm Tow Vehicles
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