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RE: No shortage of RVs

It’s spring. That is the time of the year almost all dealerships want to load up on inventory. This holds true for not only RVs but boats, motorcycles, cars and trucks, ATVs, fishing gear, camping gear, pretty much every outdoor recreation item sans snowmobiles. The test comes in August and September . Are the lots full of soon to be past model year rigs or are they nearly empty like they were last year?
wapiticountry 05/13/22 07:36am General RVing Issues
RE: Covid in RV Parks

Janss, I would not be out walking around either if I was sick. There were several of us (4-5) sitting around talking when the owner said that this guy had covid. I said, "You let him walk around exposing people and don't share that with us?" Not worth arguing over. But, I was surprised. Won't be next time. Thanks for your feedback. Have a good day,What would you have the park do? They have no legal ability to quarantine the guy. They actually have no way of knowing that is what the guy has or if he is even sick. I know I don’t go around sharing my health information with anyone. It isn’t unreasonable to speculate the guy’s diagnosis came from the rumor mill rather than a doctor.
wapiticountry 05/11/22 07:25am Full-time RVing
RE: Vacation Home Buying Fizzling. RV's too?

I worked as an analyst in the REO division of a large bank for years right around the big bubble. Maybe your geography is different but houses are not money pits. Statistically speaking, houses almost always are an appreciating asset. And in my neck of the woods, I've seen exponentially less used RV's for sale than the past 2 years. Reality falls somewhere in the middle. It's fun to talk about the little old couple who bought a $30k house in 1950 and the kids are selling it for $1million but that's really an unusual case and when you back calculate the annual return, it's not that great and it ignores all the costs that go into supporting a house for 70yrs. If you are more typical (average duration of ownership is around 7yrs), the transaction costs of buying/selling typically eats up most if not all of the appreciation. RVs are obviously worse as depreciating assets but houses are not the investments that the real estate industry promotes. In terms of the market bubbles and the impact of rising interest rates, expect both to take a big hit as the Fed tries to get inflation under control after stoking the fires.Factor in the utility value of shelter and home ownership becomes extremely profitable. Like you said, you have to live somewhere. Unless it’s under a bridge or in your parent’s basement that shelter costs a lot of money.
wapiticountry 05/09/22 07:15pm General RVing Issues
RE: Vacation Home Buying Fizzling. RV's too?

I hear the same bogus arguments this time around as I did back in 2008 when the whole housing market took a dump. People never learn. I work on houses for a living. They are money pits, not magical money trees. Not only is the housing market already tanking, RVs, boats, trucks, cars and everything else are following suit. Interest rates on mortgages have doubled since last August. That means the average house payment is up over 1/3 since that time, and we're talking houses that are at the pinnacle price peak of the biggest real estate bubble in history. The entire situation was completely unsustainable, and now it's time to get ready for the fallout. I'm already seeing WAY more used RVs for sale than just a month ago. When money gets tight, the toys are the first to go. Forget a crashing housing market, I'm anticipating everything else crashing much worse before then, because it's all interest rate sensitive. For somebody like me who purchases things in cash, I will be enjoying watching this unfold.. Please send some of that tanking Truck and boat markets my way. Local dealers have literally no inventory for sale. One local dealer advertises the have withheld one truck from sale so potential customer to test drive before ordering. Other dealers are running ads offering to buy your car or truck with nary a peep about having something available to actually sell. Boats are the same. No inventory, or boats available without the outboard motor which the dealer will only commit to having “hopefully in three months”. I can get on a list in case someone backs out when their ordered boat comes in, but the dealer said the list is so long it is very unlikely a boat similar to what I am seeking will be available this boating season. Of course it is inevitable the current markets will eventually peak, inventories will recover, and prices will moderate. But when and at what levels? If it is in 2023 and prices fall 10% it sure isn’t worth it to me to miss a boating season or drive my old truck in hopes of getting that 10%. And what if that 10% fall in prices only happens after another 15% run up? Finally, your premise homes aren’t a money generating machine has been proven inaccurate throughout history. Over the long term home ownership has proven to appreciate in value, even if you bought at market peaks. There are rare exceptions that are location specific, but home ownership is the average Americans greatest wealth building tool.
wapiticountry 05/09/22 07:58am General RVing Issues
RE: Vacation Home Buying Fizzling. RV's too?

At some point in the not too distant future I see a rash of short sales. A half point raise in interest will grow to a 3% raise as the economy cools. But I feel there won't be as many bargains as in the past.I live in an area with a huge population of luxury second (and third, forth, fifth etc.) homes. The vast majority are cash sales. The number of people who don’t bat an eye over a multi million dollar purchase are staggering. Plus, anyone who has financed a home in the past decade.or so has a great fixed rate mortgage. They have locked in the payment and an increase in current mortgage rates won’t effect them at all. Finally there is a severe shortage of single family homes. Days on the market for listed homes are still at near record lows. I doubt there will be lines of sales on the courthouse steps any time soon.
wapiticountry 05/04/22 06:48pm General RVing Issues
RE: On the road observations

I was telling my wife that everyone would get use to paying $5/gallon for fuel in a few weeks. Even at $5/gallon, we still pay less than most other developed nations. ...but most of us won't be RVing in those other developed nations, so who cares? :p It's a mixed bag: - In Europe, they tend to drive shorter distances in smaller more fuel efficient cars. Or they ride scooters or take mass transit around town. Net effect is they buy much less gas. If gas goes up by $2/gal, not a big deal if you average 3 gal per week. Much different if it's 30gal per week. - RV'ing is quite popular in Europe and yes, we have rented over there. It's a great experience though different from N. American. Of course, in the big picture, fuel costs are not a big driving force. If you've already bought an RV: - You still have the $500/month payments (assuming typical people who get loans). - You still have $100/month insurance. - You still have $500-1000/yr in maintenance costs. - You still pay $25-60/night for a site. - We are looking at a Michigan to Yellowstone trip later this fall and over the 2 months, we have it calculated as maybe around $300 extra for fuel. While annoying, fuel costs hardly move the needle in terms of the overall RVing costs.I don’t know about you, but $300 moves my needle. That’s about 3 months worth of school lunches for the kids.If a $300 hit in vacation costs means you don’t feed lunch to your kids for thee months you need to reassess your priorities. Taking a second job instead of that vacation would be the first step.
wapiticountry 04/27/22 07:32am General RVing Issues
RE: $1000 for a 23 mile tow?

Look at the price from the tow operator’s point of view. 23 extra miles is really a 46 mile round trip. That’s more fuel and an hour of time delay to get to the next guy waiting for a tow. They may lose that next tow to a competitor who can get there quicker. Towing bigger rigs isn’t easy or cheap to begin with. The equipment costs and skill levels are much higher than required to tow a car. Like almost all businesses the tow operators know what the competition charges and what they need to charge to stay in business. While you could probably go to the local bar and fine a couple of guys with a pickup and a tow chain willing to give it a try, it is very unlikely shopping around would save you hundreds of dollars without sacrificing ability.
wapiticountry 03/19/22 08:19am Tow Vehicles
RE: Yellowstone with pets

If the dog is well behaved and kept on a short leash, OK. How does he behave in a crowded situation? I think you, the dog and other visitors would be better off without the dog being a tourist. Some kids, and adults too, are afraid of dogs and some people are allergic. Do everyone a favor and leave the dog in the RV or at least in the vehicle while at busy areas in the park.Dogs are absolutely not allowed on trails or boardwalks within Yellowstone regardless of how well behaved or how short the leash is. They need to stay in the car or the RV while touring the park. At elevation the solar radiation can be very high and even if the air temperatures are comfortable the interior of a car can heat up to dangerous levels. The good news is, for most people Yellowstone is viewed from the car and very short walking paths and boardwalks. If the dog is comfortable sitting alone quietly in the car for short periods of time (30 minutes or less) you will be able to see what 99% if park visitors see.
wapiticountry 03/19/22 08:05am RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions
RE: Rising fuel, will it be any different this time?

People predicting the future are like a stopped clock, once in a while they will be right. The rest of the time, not very accurate.
wapiticountry 03/09/22 09:39am General RVing Issues
RE: Would $7 per gal effect your RV lifestyle?

I won’t effect my travel plans but it might shorten my vocabulary down to a few four letter words at fill up time.
wapiticountry 02/24/22 08:46am General RVing Issues
RE: Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

Stupid question; If a CG is upgrading sites from 30 too 50 Amp, how much extra cost to also add capacity to charge EVs? Bet most have made/are making that change so I assume they have run the numbers and are betting the upcharge for site with upgraded power will pay off. Electricity costs are negligible. It the cost to upgrade the electrical infrastructure that is going to make RV parks reluctant to fully embrace EVs. I would much rather miss some potential business than come out of pocket with $50,000 or more to upgrade the electrical system when there isn’t a clear need. You missed the point of my question; A CG has 30 Amp sites, decides they want to have more of the 2 AC units stop instead of going down the road. If they are trenching, and pushing pipe to run the extra wire for the 50 AMP service to sites, how much extra money would it take to also put in charge ports? I have no idea. It would require more service mains and I don’t know how much addition buying and wiring in charging ports would cost. But how many parks are there that are still 30 amp and also are planning on upgrading. I mean having 50 amp services has been pretty much the standard for several decades. If the haven’t already upgraded it is likely because they can’t due to either financial issues or the power just isn’t available. (More common than you think I’m rural locations).
wapiticountry 02/17/22 03:01pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

Too funny. Going into a fully functioning facility of ant type it’s not so simple as “pulling a few wires” Stupid question; If a CG is upgrading sites from 30 too 50 Amp, how much extra cost to also add capacity to charge EVs? Bet most have made/are making that change so I assume they have run the numbers and are betting the upcharge for site with upgraded power will pay off. Bet that very few will be towing to CG with EV for years. OTOH, I can see a lot of EVs used as toads in the next few years. Could CG meter power to post, charge extra for high use? AC in a tent, or charge a EV, would cause them to pay more. (Might help with lights on all night too)Electricity costs are negligible. It the cost to upgrade the electrical infrastructure that is going to make RV parks reluctant to fully embrace EVs. I would much rather miss some potential business than come out of pocket with $50,000 or more to upgrade the electrical system when there isn’t a clear need. Nobody has a clue as to how the EV charging landscape will look ten or twenty years down the road. Maybe the charging will improve to the point the traditional fueling srations can provide charging in a time equal to current petroleum fuels. Maybe electric vehicles are the 8 track/ cassette tape/ CDs of the world and technology will quickly render them obsolete as hydrogen flying cars dominate . As for KOA it is my understanding their foray into EV charging only goes as far as partnering with a pedestal supplier to have a charging port added to a standard pedestal and then the put a KOA logo on it. The park still has to buy it and wire it into their grid. KOA is not requiring parks to add them and likely won’t. It is much more corporate PR than some huge push for EVs. Finally, there was a post you don’t always need to charge EVs at every opportunity. True, but if a business builds in that ability, they have to plan and build the system to work on the assumption they may all be in use at some time.
wapiticountry 02/17/22 08:58am Tow Vehicles
RE: Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

When class A is built on an EV truck chassis will be when L3 will hit the campgrounds. Going to be a while. In the mean time pop 2 to 6 four pole 30 amp breakers in the existing panel and let them charge. (for a fee)What RV pedestal has spaces for additional breakers? And parking/charging their EVs away from their site is a no go for many people. At one of our parks we had a row of sites where the vehicle parking was across the driveway from the RV site. Some rope acted like that we were forcing them to park two towns away. Just foregoing the business is a better plan then dealing with all sorts of customer whining.Yes the public is nuts. We would call these SDR as in Sent Down the Road. No slots in the pedestal. Connect at the main panel.And after I have connected to the main panel how do I string the wiring to the charging station? I don’t think laying it in the ground is acceptable. Burying the wiring gets very costly as the charging stations are likely to need to be located a distance away. Traversing that distance often involves crossing roads .landscaping and utility lines panels aren’t generally located in locations convenient to drive up to. Furthermore the panels generally are maxed out per NEC code powering the RV sites. Add power hungry charging stations would overload the main breaker which is not going to be popular with the guests watching TV, microwaving pop corn, and just enjoying the cool breezes from the air conditioners. If only things were as simple as people not involved in the project thinks it is.
wapiticountry 02/16/22 12:48pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

When class A is built on an EV truck chassis will be when L3 will hit the campgrounds. Going to be a while. In the mean time pop 2 to 6 four pole 30 amp breakers in the existing panel and let them charge. (for a fee)What RV pedestal has spaces for additional breakers? And parking/charging their EVs away from their site is a no go for many people. At one of our parks we had a row of sites where the vehicle parking was across the driveway from the RV site. Some rope acted like that we were forcing them to park two towns away. Just foregoing the business is a better plan then dealing with all sorts of customer whining.
wapiticountry 02/16/22 08:17am Tow Vehicles
RE: Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

Geezus the whole CG doesn't have to upgrade tomorrow. Upgrade 2-3 spots for EV's and that should cover the trend for the next 5 years or whatever. Honestly how many EV'ers are going to buy a trailer to camp with anyways? Probably very few in the next 5 years. Except, it's often the main feed to the park that is limited. 2-3 fast charging stations may require an additional 400-500amps with a main feed that is already struggling during peak summer conditions. I can’t see the need for a fast charge station in an RV park. Fast chargers are needed for road trips. People are usually in a park for a day or more. Jmho.People will need to use their EV to tour even if they are there for multiple days. Very few RV parks are destinations to themselves. When the EV is on site, so are the occupants and that is when they want and need the RV to be powered. The need to have the RV connected and the EV charging is almost always going to be simultaneous. The notion you can juggle connecting one and not the other wouldn’t work for the vast majority of people.
wapiticountry 02/14/22 08:53am Tow Vehicles
RE: Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

Other than some sort of emergency I can't imagine any EV owner going to an RV park to charge on a level 2 charger. A level 3 DC fast charger is a MUCH better and probably 5 to 50 times faster. As indicated earlier basic EV charging services can be offered with zero investment. Its a no brainer for a campground owner to take advantage of that. JMHOFree? Really? Some benefactor is going to come to a park, supply the charging unit, provide and bury the wiring, repair any landscaping or other infrastructure that might be idamaged while burying the one, hire the electrician to wire it into the park’s electrical system etc. And on top of that it’s a no brained., which begs the question are most RV park owners stupid, because most parks haven’t taken a ride on your self described gravy train.
wapiticountry 02/13/22 06:09pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

Can someone explain to me the actual time in minutes or hours, whatever. How long is a 'fast charge'. Assume you have a three quarters batter discharge on a trip. How long does it take to recharge that battery. People keep saying fast charge and quick charge which no definition in time. Not to argue 'gas vs electric', just comparing time to fill tank vs time to charge when you are on a trip that's more miles than a battery will take you and you need a charge somewhere, wherever that exists. I would enjoy a reply to that myself. Once we pulled into a fuel stop right behind a Tesla. She plugged in while my DW headed to restroom, and I walked the dog around the rig touching tires and hubs. Wife came out, I pulled over to pump, filled. Wife and dog had got back to pickup, so she moved it back to edge of PL while I restroom and got some snacks. I noticed the Teslas where eating. We ate chips and left. About 20 miles down the road that Tesla passed us. I have no idea what state of charge was when arrived or left. Maybe they just got enough to get somewhere cheaper? I would think that for a few years, most EVs in CGs will be toads, or travelers stopping for charge and picnic. That would be a revenue stream for the owners.Additional revenue streams are often way over-rated. You have many variables to consider before it makes sense to add an amenity even if you can charge for it. To start with, how much does it cost and how much can you charge? The history of posts in these forums often indicate the service should be free and used to attract additional customers. Many parks I know are turning away reservations because they are full so that model surely isn’t profitable. And regardless of what some people post, adding any electrical service isn’t free and you cannot just add loads to wiring because at some point I he circuits will overload and trip. EV charging is going to require parks to change their electrical infrastructure and that will involve excavation since every park I am familiar with has underground wiring to the sites . And when you install that new wiring it has to cross roads, other utilities and parking pads. It gets real expensive very quickly. Then you have to consider if adding an amenity, no matter how profitable, brings in a desirable customer. If it becomes common knowledge RV parks have charging stations will that draw a bunch on EV owners, sans RVs who wish to charge? That would be an unwanted development for most parks. They don’t want people who aren’t staying at the park walking the grounds, using the restrooms and playing in the playgrounds while they wait for the charge to finish, no matter how much they could charge. I believe the vast majority of parks are going to just wait and be followers rather than being at the forefront of EVs.
wapiticountry 02/13/22 04:06pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

Geezus the whole CG doesn't have to upgrade tomorrow. Upgrade 2-3 spots for EV's and that should cover the trend for the next 5 years or whatever. Honestly how many EV'ers are going to buy a trailer to camp with anyways? Probably very few in the next 5 years.And how do you manage those three sites? Hold them open for EV owners exclusively and turn away guests if you are otherwise full? Take a couple of one night EV reservations that fill those two sites and then have to turn away multi night EV reservations because you have those single night reservations in the middle of the longer stay’s request? And even creating a couple of sites involves rewiring which involves excavation. Multiple thousands of dollars of cost for exactly what gain? It is going to be a long time, if ever, before many parks stop lumping guests who require EV charging into the same category as those guests who require amenities and services the park also chooses not to provide. Those aren’t lost customers, they were never that park’s customer to begin with. Just like the prime steakhouse doesn’t see the customers at the Chuck E Cheese next door as lost business.
wapiticountry 02/13/22 09:56am Tow Vehicles
RE: Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

It has been beaten around endlessly, but the vast majority of RV parks are wired in such a way that they are incapable of supplying electricity to RVs and support the charging of EVs. Even if the local power provider could provide the additional capacity to the park, the park would need to be completely required. That would likely cost multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars. People with EVs can often make RV Parks work today because an EV in a park is an anomaly.
wapiticountry 02/12/22 05:24pm Tow Vehicles
RE: Multiple Buyers. Who gets the RV?

Thanks everyone for all the advice. It was very helpful. So the RV is not sold at this point. The buyer from an hour away came to see it and drove it Friday evening. Indicated he had to get with his wife. We've never heard back from him. The potential buyer from 4 hrs away showed with his wife Saturday afternoon. The wife wanted one with a door in the middle. They currently have a 5th wheel. Our rig is an Allegro Bus diesel pusher. Don't recall ever seeing a DP with a door in the middle. Maybe they need to look at a gas powered rig .........Anyway, they decided not to purchase.Welcome to the real world experiences involved in selling a RV to the public.
wapiticountry 01/30/22 05:19pm General RVing Issues
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