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 > Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers

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Skalleknull

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Posted: 10/29/12 01:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

gdavidg wrote:

_Adam_ wrote:

Two things...

First... editted... Wasn't inteded to start a flame war.

Second... I have a dodge truck and the RAWR on the door jamb sticker is far less than what the actual manufacturer specifies to to be - In this situation, who is the manufacturer, Dodge or AAM, and whose specification is right or most correct?


what is AAM and where do I go to look at the axle rating for my 3500 srw 2010 Dodge diesel?

Who are the regulating authorities in the State of Washington for commercial vehicles?

Thanks for your input,.


AAM 11.5" is between 11k and 12k from AAM. Dodge derates it for a number of reasons. Two main reasons is Hardware around it and Marketing (Gives them room to grow as the competition grows).

The AAM 11.5" is used on Dodge 2500, 3500 SRW, and 3500 DRW. GM uses a 14bolt that is basically the same axle.

dascom2000

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Posted: 12/23/12 08:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Now this is a long lived and delightful thread. As I can finally see through my glazed eyes, I come to the common sense understanding that:

1: Do not put more that 20K# on an axle without a permit.
2: Do not exceed the equipment's safe capacity. (tires, suspension, etc)
3: Do not violate bridge and roadbed loading rules where you are driving
4: Work hard to pass the attitude test short of giving up your rights
to be left alone if following the above.
5: Tell me more about how many college kids can fit into a VW bug.GVCW


I am working real hard to not exceed my equipment's limits, I know what they are. If I don't fail the above, might I still have trouble? [emoticon]


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sacmarata

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Posted: 05/29/14 10:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dascom2000 wrote:

Now this is a long lived and delightful thread. As I can finally see through my glazed eyes, I come to the common sense understanding that:

1: Do not put more that 20K# on an axle without a permit.
2: Do not exceed the equipment's safe capacity. (tires, suspension, etc)
3: Do not violate bridge and roadbed loading rules where you are driving
4: Work hard to pass the attitude test short of giving up your rights
to be left alone if following the above.
5: Tell me more about how many college kids can fit into a VW bug.GVCW


I am working real hard to not exceed my equipment's limits, I know what they are. If I don't fail the above, might I still have trouble? [emoticon]


Theres always the potential for trouble. I have CVE contact me frequently asking what to do with a carrier. Weight & dimension laws are complex to say the least and even CVE officers can't keep up with all of em. The above notations are a great start but theres so much more that changes depending on specific state laws/regs.
The most common mistake I see is a carrier loaded in excess of the plated weight and carriers overloaded the trailers GVWR.

Mostly campers get left alone but when CVE officers get right out of the academy, they are ready to save the world and will stop/hassle anyone they suspect might have ANY violation right down to loose ball joints or improper tire inflation.

transamz9

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Posted: 05/29/14 11:01am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dascom2000 wrote:

Now this is a long lived and delightful thread. As I can finally see through my glazed eyes, I come to the common sense understanding that:

1: Do not put more that 20K# on an axle without a permit.
2: Do not exceed the equipment's safe capacity. (tires, suspension, etc)
3: Do not violate bridge and roadbed loading rules where you are driving
4: Work hard to pass the attitude test short of giving up your rights
to be left alone if following the above.
5: Tell me more about how many college kids can fit into a VW bug.GVCW


I am working real hard to not exceed my equipment's limits, I know what they are. If I don't fail the above, might I still have trouble? [emoticon]


Actually on the rig in your siggy 17,000 is all you are allowed per axle on your drives without a permit. Now if you was to go to a single drive then yes 20,000. Your front is good for only 12,000 without a permit and then 16,000 unless you put floats on.[emoticon]

* This post was edited 06/01/14 02:24pm by transamz9 *


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ShapeShifter

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Posted: 05/29/14 12:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

transamz9 wrote:

Actually on the rig in your siggy 18,000 is all you are allowed per axle on your drives without a permit. Now if you was to go to a single drive then yes 20,000. Your front is good for only 12,000 without a permit and then 16,000 unless you put floats on.[emoticon]

For the benefit of us non-technical folks who don't know the specs of various vehicles, could you please explain how you came up with the numbers? Start with being more specific about the rig you're referring to, I see several in that signature that you could be speaking about.

And what do you mean by "floats"?


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blt2ski

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Posted: 06/01/14 09:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShapeShifter wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Actually on the rig in your siggy 18,000 is all you are allowed per axle on your drives without a permit. Now if you was to go to a single drive then yes 20,000. Your front is good for only 12,000 without a permit and then 16,000 unless you put floats on.[emoticon]

For the benefit of us non-technical folks who don't know the specs of various vehicles, could you please explain how you came up with the numbers? Start with being more specific about the rig you're referring to, I see several in that signature that you could be speaking about.

And what do you mean by "floats"?


If you understand the real laws as they pertain to how much wt you can put on an axel, you would know that tandem axels as the truck in question, the max is typically 34K lbs, but some areas allow 36K lbs or 18K per axel max. A front you can get up to 20K lbs, with floats as some call the tires, or super singles is another. THere is a small portion of the wt law that you need enough tire width also, hence the floats. If you use a typcal 10-12" tire, you get a minimum max of 500 lbs per inch width of tire, or 5-6K lbs per tire, up to 12K per axel. If you have 20" wide tires, then you get the full 20K per axel.

At the end of the day, it is not about how much the manufacture rates the truck for, it is how you are able to spread/bridge a load across the road itself. IE point loading is what the CVEO is taxing and fining you if you get above those loads.

There is no frigen way a pickup pulling a trailer will generally speaking be overweight in how a CVEO enforces the wt laws. IF they have purchased enough GVW, and are not over 500 lbs per inch width of tire, which is typically 10-12K per axel, you will not get an overwt ticket. I've been pulled over a few time at 150% of my manufactures gvwr, NEVER have I gotten an overwt ticket, as I have been under the point load/road bed limits of the law. That is what we are ticketed on, not the manufacture ratings.

Marty


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transamz9

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Posted: 06/01/14 02:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blt2ski wrote:

ShapeShifter wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Actually on the rig in your siggy 18,000 is all you are allowed per axle on your drives without a permit. Now if you was to go to a single drive then yes 20,000. Your front is good for only 12,000 without a permit and then 16,000 unless you put floats on.[emoticon]

For the benefit of us non-technical folks who don't know the specs of various vehicles, could you please explain how you came up with the numbers? Start with being more specific about the rig you're referring to, I see several in that signature that you could be speaking about.

And what do you mean by "floats"?


If you understand the real laws as they pertain to how much wt you can put on an axel, you would know that tandem axels as the truck in question, the max is typically 34K lbs, but some areas allow 36K lbs or 18K per axel max. A front you can get up to 20K lbs, with floats as some call the tires, or super singles is another. THere is a small portion of the wt law that you need enough tire width also, hence the floats. If you use a typcal 10-12" tire, you get a minimum max of 500 lbs per inch width of tire, or 5-6K lbs per tire, up to 12K per axel. If you have 20" wide tires, then you get the full 20K per axel.

At the end of the day, it is not about how much the manufacture rates the truck for, it is how you are able to spread/bridge a load across the road itself. IE point loading is what the CVEO is taxing and fining you if you get above those loads.

There is no frigen way a pickup pulling a trailer will generally speaking be overweight in how a CVEO enforces the wt laws. IF they have purchased enough GVW, and are not over 500 lbs per inch width of tire, which is typically 10-12K per axel, you will not get an overwt ticket. I've been pulled over a few time at 150% of my manufactures gvwr, NEVER have I gotten an overwt ticket, as I have been under the point load/road bed limits of the law. That is what we are ticketed on, not the manufacture ratings.

Marty


Yes! You explained it way better than I ever would have been able to. I do have a typo in my post that I will correct and that is 17,000 instead of 18,000. I should proof read better. As far as I know the Federal law is 17,000 per axle on the rears unless single axle.

transamz9

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Posted: 06/01/14 02:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShapeShifter wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Actually on the rig in your siggy 18,000 is all you are allowed per axle on your drives without a permit. Now if you was to go to a single drive then yes 20,000. Your front is good for only 12,000 without a permit and then 16,000 unless you put floats on.[emoticon]

For the benefit of us non-technical folks who don't know the specs of various vehicles, could you please explain how you came up with the numbers? Start with being more specific about the rig you're referring to, I see several in that signature that you could be speaking about.

And what do you mean by "floats"?


The rig I was referring to is the Freightliner. If he were to be weighed as a commercial vehicle. Floats are the big wide tires that you see on the front of a lot of dump trucks and heavy haul semis. If this picture works, these are "floats" "super singles"

[image]

ShapeShifter

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Posted: 06/03/14 07:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blt2ski wrote:

If you understand the real laws as they pertain to how much wt you can put on an axel, you would know that

Obviously, I don't know the real laws, or I wouldn't be asking the question! [emoticon]

I've picked up some bits and pieces, but have trouble putting it all together. This thread has been very interesting, but also contains quite a bit of confusing and conflicting information. I have a tough time staying withing the manufacturer axle weight ratings on my rig (especially the 20k rear.) I understand the physical ramifications of that, but worry about the potential legal issues.

blt2ski wrote:

not over 500 lbs per inch width of tire, which is typically 10-12K per axel, you will not get an overwt ticket.

Great summary, thanks! Please double check my math: My tires are 275/80R22.5, which should give me a 275 mm tread width if I understand tire specifications properly. That's a tad over 10.8" per tire. At 500 lbs per inch, I figure that's 5,400 lbs per tire, or 21,600 for the axle.

So I take it my legal limit is 21,600 on the rear axle, and I'm within my limit. But the legal limit on my front axle would only be 10,800 on the front, even though the front GAWR is 13,000 pounds. According to my last weigh slip, my actual front axle weight is 12,240. So I was worried all this time about my rear axle, when it turns out the front is my problem? Yikes! [emoticon]

So I guess I need wider tires on my front? I don't think I have room for 315's, but that's what it sounds like I need... [emoticon]


transamz9 wrote:

Floats are the big wide tires that you see on the front of a lot of dump trucks and heavy haul semis.

Thanks! I was guessing something along these lines, but you know what happens when you guess and make assumptions, especially about trade jargon. [emoticon]

sacmarata

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Posted: 06/20/14 10:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ill post some common tire sizes, thier cross section in inches and the total lbs per axle.

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