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1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 8. Fresh Water

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
This Part 8. Fresh Water, begins at a stage in our game of rebuilding the left sidewall of the camper. It is here on that side where we run into the utility connections, much of which are fresh water related. Other threads in this Resto Mod are...

1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 1. Acquisition & Evaluation
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 2. Dismantling and Salvage
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 3. Structure and New Wood
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 4. Bathroom Remodel
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 5. Propane
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 6. Jacks & Tiedowns
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 7. Finishes & Finishing
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 8. Fresh Water
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 9. Electrical (AC/DC)
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 10. Galley & Greatroom
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 11. Night Chamber
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 12. Waste Water
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 13. Exterior, Skin & Openings
1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 14. Viewer Perceptions

I'll start with a short description of our original fresh water set-up, and what we've determined we want for fresh water, at least in the limited space we're dealing with.

Our small 8' Travel Queen came with limited extras, much like today's smaller units. I guess manufacturers (and likely consumers) consider it natural for smaller RVs to be somewhat lacking in amenities, while much larger units have everything! We don't adhere to that model. Rather, we want as small as possible, but with as much luxury as possible.

So our camper came original with a 30 gallon fresh water tank, no water heater, and a single hand-pump facet at a double basin galley sink. It also had both gravity feed and city supply inlets, and a fresh water tank drain. And I thought 30 gallons was pretty darn good for a small camper with only a hand pump and single sink location!

We wanted as much capacity in a fresh water tank as would fit under the original cabinet (which ended up being 40 gallons), an on demand pump, a 6 gallon hot water heater and hot and cold water at: the galley double basin sink, the bathroom single basin sink, wet bath shower capabilities, and an exterior shower or spray port station. Of course we also want the gravity feed and city water supply inlets, but we want them behind a locking hatch, and we want a conveniently located fresh water drain, not to mention an easy to switch antifreeze pick-up and fresh water bypass, as well as the hot water tank bypass for simple winterizing.

As a side note, there is no space for a waste receptacle. Because of that I had planned a location under the cab-over step (which houses the fresh water tank) for a waste can. I'd hinge the step lid for access and the garbage can wouldn't be out in the floor space getting knocked over and tripped on. That decision reduced space under the cab-over step enough that I had resigned myself to a 30 gallon fresh water tank. Good enough.

Later, when it came time to order the fresh water tank, I measured again and purchased the larger dimension 40 gallon tank. While test locating it, I remembered about the waste can and smacked myself in the forehead! Doh!

Shipping had been high enough - I didn't want to double and triple it up. I racked my brain. I concluded there was a little more floor space than necessary for easy movement around the galley. The step up to the cab-over was deep enough, but a little more depth wouldn't hurt anything, especially as we get older. There was also some wasted depth space between the cabinet face and the water tank. I found if I just moved the face of the step out into the floor another 5" I could keep the 40 gallon tank, place TWO 6 gallon rectangular waste receptacles UNDER the step by the fresh water tank and still have plenty of floor space for maneuvering and cooking, a larger step up to the cab-over, and still retain the same raised floor space for the U-shaped dinette floor! So I rebuilt the face wall of the cabinet as one of my summer projects and retained the originally desired 40 gallon fresh water tank.

{2/15/17 Edit -- The above mentioned waste receptacles have by necessity, been changed to: one smaller receptacle, and a space for one vented battery, due to the need to remove it from the originally planned unsafe location of the power center cabinet.}

As I now begin the rebuild of the left side-wall of the camper, I'll begin placing fresh water related posts here in this thread. Fresh water being bery, bery good to me!
34 REPLIES 34

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
Today: Reroute under-wing fresh water gravity fill and vent hoses.

While getting the camper on the truck the other day, it became evident that the fresh-water gravity-fill and vent hoses - mounted beneath the propane lines on the driver/street side - would likely interfere with the truck rail.

I was also concerned about potential electrolysis occurring between the copper gas lines and the stainless steel worm-gear clamps in place to secure those hoses.

It was a cold day, but before the wind had started blowing too hard, so wind chill was not yet sub-zero, only sub-freezing. Better get the truck under her before the wind advisory period, which was expected to last for several days - again. After kind of a mild winter, we were cold again here at the end of February.

With the truck half in and half out, and the camper hovering above the truck by enough inches to maneuver in that working area, I set to work with bulky gloves and recalled fondly those long, enjoyable winter days in the heated shop.

I thought, 'stop dreaming and get to work'.

I wasn't interested in climbing up inside the camper, not at her high altitude, three plus feet above ground level, and fortunately I had removable fasteners on the nearby propane lines! Three joints opened up, one piece came out, hoses re-routed, propane lines re-installed and tested with soapy water. Check! Then the test-solution froze. I thought, 'well that will thaw and evaporate in a few months'.



I might put in one more plastic tie to level that run in the middle, but theoretically at least, it's probably okay just as it is. But note the two wire ties, actually large, wide heating-duct ties I had a few of, laying around in the way. Pulled in close and ends cut off.



Then the load up of the camper continued, but Fresh Water was done.

And THAT closes out Fresh Water.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
Today: Fixing Leaks and taking "Possible Baths".

Beginning about here, I started installing the fresh water gravity fill hose - a typical 1.25" RV flexible spiral hose. There was early confusion and workarounds, and continued frustration when I FINALLY did a "full tank" test. Previously I had only done a half tank.

Once the tank was full, I discovered leaks in the freshwater tank compartment - at both the gravity fill hose to tank connection, and at the pump's exit hose to the barb on the threaded connector to the copper line.

That was in addition to the galley sink trap minor leak, and the bathroom basin rim major leak.

I think I already spoke to the bathroom basin rim fix by removing the butyl putty used, and replacing with siliconized caulking. That worked - fixed!

I think I already spoke to the galley sink trap leak too, which if I didn't, I fiddled with it and re-secured, and that seems fixed now too.

Regarding the gravity fill hose, here's what I did.

Upon discovering the leak, I was just that disgusted again, you know, cheap faulty modern stuff! Grrrrrrrrrrrr. Online searches revealed I'm not the only one having problems with this type of hose. It was coming out!

A post or two after the link provided at the opening of this reply post, discussion goes into how I had modified (beyond repair) the barbed fitting at the gravity fill hatch, cutting off the 1.25" barb, then finding I had to modify the 1.5" barb to accommodate my 1.25" hose. Because of that modification, I pulled the hatch off the camper exterior wall. I'm Starting this thing over!

When I did, I discovered I had so successfully butyled (that's a term - serious) the hatch to the wall, that getting it off required gentle use of crowbar leverage and small amounts of explosives.

And that vent hose I had used? You know, the braided stuff to keep thin, weak walled hose from collapsing? Yeah I know, no suction on vent hoses, but there are bends, and the new Komfort Travel Trailer we have, has some sort of blockage in it's vent (probably sloppy install with plugging from excess caulk or tank flaps caused form incomplete drilling or removing drilled hole plugs, or something - but maybe from unseen kinks), so I used the braided. Which is very strong, and was no match for the weak plastic fitting on the hatch - Snap! Sheesh!

I took the modified and the broken hatch pieces over to the home center and found some vent hose, non-braided, still fairly thick walled, in the form of the clear 1/2" ID and 5/8" OD stuff, but no 1.25" stuff!

Next stop, RV Center for the replacement hatch. While there I asked about their choice of hose, and he showed me the same stuff I had. I described my difficulties and problems, including reported online failures, even WHEN using silicon sealer with the clamp.

He said, "I've done it this way for 20 years and that's how service shops do it and it won't leak if you do it right, and this is what to do". I thought, "Okay - you're the professional, I'm gonna try this one more time!"

So I took things home and followed his instructions.

I didn't buy new hose; what I had would easily be reused with his instructions. I did stop and buy a tube of silicon. I don't really think it matters what kind - he said the potability wasn't really an issue, and I tend to agree. I think once it cures you'll be fine too.

And at least in MY case, I like that new third arm I've grown since heavy use of the stuff, because I can now use two hands to hold things, while the third hand grips "whatever" tool.

Here's the secret (I think), based on my experience, and his instructions.

Put the silicon on fairly thick - I mean don't be scrimpy. But don't be stupid either!

Put it on the barbed (or solid) fitting, not on the inside of the hose. On the inside of the hose, installation will scoop it and maybe cause a plug, but at least gobs of silicon blocking maximum flow. Yeah, put it on the fitting, not the hose.

Then slide the hose onto the fitting, again trying not to scoop the surface clean, but just be controlled.

Then tighten the worm gear clamp. Not like Superman would. Not like the Pillsbury Dough Boy might. Just solid, and firm. You know what I mean. Feel the tightness, the snugness, but don't over-torque.

Then walk away! That's most important. Do something else, don't disturb the joint. Especially don't put the hatch back on the wall yet. Unless you've already done this before and you have the experience under your belt enough to put it back together and send the RV owner on his way.

In my case, I wanted to visually test it before attaching it to the camper wall, and that meant leaving it alone, or pulling the range. I chose to leave it alone. Like this.



Note the visible 1.5" part of the barb. The hose is on the smaller 1.25" barb. Originally I found the hose fit too loose, but - loose means "more able to gently slip on the hose" and with weak plastic fittings, that looseness is important. The silicon dries and cures in a sort of "fill". It fills the gap and seals nicely down near the clamped surface, forming a kind of hour-glass shape. You know how stiff and strong silicon is when dried! And silicon adheres very well to plastic surfaces, like the inside of the hose, and the outside of the barb.

Later cleanup (silicon removal during repair) is easy, if silicon is ONLY on plastic. Just don't get it on sheet-metal or wood or something. If you do, you'll need a crow bar and a small amount of explosives.

So the next day it felt strong, firm, and actually worked! It was sealed.

Here's the tank side.



The black mark is the end of the barb. I placed the clamp in the middle of the barbed hose. That gave me the best hour-glass shape I could imagine. It sealed well, and more importantly, felt very secure!

Check!

Here's another "Whoops!" The antifreeze pickup. This shows it correctly installed now.



Originally I installed it backwards. No - I didn't find a direction flow arrow on the fitting, you actually have to look inside of it at the valving. And apparently I hadn't.

See - the other day when I was testing, then draining, then winterizing, I discovered the pump wouldn't suck from the antifreeze jug. I thought it was having trouble because it wasn't primed, so I got a funnel and primed the hose. Then I ran the pump, still wouldn't work, but now I discovered antifreeze in the tube from the fitting to the tank! Oh No Sluggo! I HATE antifreeze in the tank!

After turning around the fitting, things worked fine. So I filled the tank again to dilute the antifreeze on the wrong side of the wall, and pumped things through - twice.

So this stuff is all working well and correctly now, final test, no leaks. In fact, on my most recent test, I pumped a full 40 gallons out through the grey water drain, a solid 30 minutes of pump operation, and system checks.

Clear hose on the vent, instead of the earlier braided. This is all part of my shake-down.



Then got the hatch back on.



I even ran the water heater and tested how long to get the hot water to the far faucet in the bath. On went the hot water into the basin, very soon it was hot and the combo of early cold and then hot gave a very nice temperature for a half basin of wash water.



A half basin of wash water is all you need for a Possible Bath, which is the "most frequent" bathing method of camping. You don't know what a Possible Bath is? Oh! Well allow me.

You start with a half basin of wash water.

Starting up top (face and neck and ears - or as my Dad used to say, "Go wash your faceanneckanears").

So you start at the top and wash down as far as possible.

Then with the dirty water, start at the bottom (feet) and wash up as far as possible.

Then, if the water is still clean enough, you wash possible.

Bingo!

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
Today: Plumbing the bathroom.

I've already posted the latest in Bathroom, but wanted to add a bit here in the Fresh Water Chapter,

After cutting and fitting and sweating and leak testing and polishing, I ended up with these two bathroom plumbing "camper parts".



Note on this end, the sweated brass fittings for the faucet attachment. Beyond the pipes is the faucet, and the dispenser plungers.

Then from the other direction.



Here's the faucet. We liked this one from Central Brass - and through Amazon - better than the very similar priced, but a bit lesser quality looking faucets found at two local home centers.



We like the old time look and feel.

But we didn't want the "Taiwan" tag on this "American made" faucet (Central Brass calls themselves a "national company" on their web site "about") to be front and center, so we flipped the faucet backwards, which after drilling two more holes (where the screws are) are fastened securely to the bathroom back wall.



See Bathroom for installation.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
Today: Fresh Water (hot/cold) connections and plumbing from the galley cabinet to the bathroom.

Here we are, on the final lap to the finish line - and here in fresh water that means supplying the bathroom with hot and cold water.

We have several things we're trying to accomplish here...

  • Short Runs - at least for hot, so the bathroom gets hot water as soon as possible, with little waste down the drain
  • Copper 1/2" pipes in the visible living areas
  • Small holes in cabinetry (pipe diameter)
  • Made in an assembly style, for dis-assembly due to repairs or removal
  • Double duty - meaning pipes can also do something else, like being a towel rod


To get the short runs, through the living area, which can double as towel rods, we chose to run right out of the water heater area, over the entry door and directly into the bathroom, and from there - directly down to the faucet.

Today we'll get it all over to the bathroom, then stop and wait for the faucet before completion.

I remember my Dad's camper - a 12' 1972 on a '73 Ford. It had 3/8" flexible copper tubing lines. He missed winterizing one year during an early freeze and my introduction to a frozen copper line was there under the dinette cushion in the form of a 3" linear split.

Lil' Queeny has no basement, just insulated floor. Lil' Queeny has no cabinets from the water heater (left-rear of the camper) to the bathroom (right-rear corner of the camper), unless you take the long way 'round and Google some GPS directions. Lil' Queeny has no insulated attic, just a thin 1 by frame laid flat.

Like C.W. said, "However - there was a short cut, but unless you had drove the Black Bear Road before, you'd be better off to stay in bed and sleep late! Pay no attention to the guitar there".

So we locked in the hubs, and over the top we went! But let's start here.

Back and forth between the camper interior, and here at the bench, I started measuring (making exact area start and stops, or cutting just a little long for later fine-tunes).



Most often in 1/8" increments, but 1/16" shows up on fairly frequent occasion. Thus, the small steel rule.

I played with a clamp and some scrap wood, various angles for enough separation between hot and cold to obtain hook-ups maneuverability, and made the build. As I fine tuned, and re-fitted, over and over again, eventually I ended up with the two lines. Like this - after sweating and polishing.



Note the Sharkbite connectors in the foreground (just outside the water heater cabinet) and those in the background (just before entering the bathroom). Those are compression and allow for disassembly.

Also note there is a capped stub on the far end lower piece, which I used in bench testing for leaks. Both assemblies passed! Yeah Me! Don't laugh - I've had leaks before and it's no fun to try and re-do.

Next was installation.

Back at the main house water distribution manifold, the cold (bottom far left connection) has attached the steel braided hose which loops up and around then down to the cold copper 1/2" MPT adapter under the water heater.

And the hot (top far left connection) with it's steel braided hose straight out and down and under the water heater to the hot copper 1/2" MPT adapter.



Then under the water heater area, above the swing-out galley waste can.



Here's where it leaves the water heater cabinet (galley left side), right above the fire extinguisher, toward the rear, at the entry door.



And together, hot and cold rise along the door frame board.

The pipes are held in place first by the holes in the cabinet wood, and then by these two clamps. I flattened two 3/4" copper pipe clamps, then re-formed them for this use, attaching with the black construction screw and brass decorative washer treatment used elsewhere throughout the camper.



Then here at the upper reaches, they separate again so that you can drape towels over them with space in between. That also brings both runs into the bathroom at the same vertical height for specific purposes there (to be discussed later).



Note the removed flashlight brackets (evidenced by holes in the trim board). After installing the bathroom door, I had discovered the flashlight mount location was interfering with a full open swing of the door. So the flashlight is being relocated; I'll probably cover holes with two more brass hooks.

And at the bathroom end.



Note the pieces beyond the Sharbites are just place holders. When I get the faucet, I'll first mount it, then build plumbing backwards to meet this point.

We chose this unit, to keep it all on the camper warm side, and to provide for pipe runs from above, and to avoid too much shiny, instead attempting to gain more of an antique brass finish.

Central Brass laundry faucet.

It should be here Monday. And we think it looks vintage (basic).

That previous faucet (swinging spout, bright chrome, plumbed from below) we showed somewhere along the way? Back to the storage shelf until some future use. Hmmmmm, we're planning lots of chrome in Fairweather June! I bet it ends up there.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
This is where my fresh water cold and hot manifold is supposed to go. One branch will go to the city water inlet. The fresh water pump source from the tank comes into the manifold from below, where you see the CPVC pipe stub toward the bottom left - from the copper line outside the cabinet shown previously.



Note the piece of Reflectix over the wing surface. That's where one pipe will lay, and it might act as one last bastion against the cold for freeze protection.

Note also, below the water heater at the far distance (left side). In the dark brown wood toward the top - that's where the bathroom hot and cold water copper pipe stubs will enter this cabinet where they will connect to the manifold.

Now let me just say here and now, I could probably have made this job a lot easier, and quite a bit cheaper, had I simply crimped Pex throughout here. But - well..., I guess I just didn't WANT Pex! It's great, and simple, and convenient, and it's tried and true and well proven... but you know me!

I guess I wanted something just a little different.

For starters, I wanted easy removal capability of the cabinets (which is a relative statement), but able to "disassemble" systems and components for cabinet removal. And a cabinet hole diameter that matched the pipe diameter without need for an escutcheon. I know right? I don't even know how to pronounce it! So it was cool to discover all the Sharkbite fittings. And yes, I could use either copper, or Pex or my end choice, CPVC with the Sharkbite fittings.

And I'm into pain. Kind of a glutton for punishment, if you know what I mean. So here is the puzzle.



Using a tubing cutter for all the one inch pieces seriously reduced the deburring needs.

Here's how that went together.



Note the Sharkbite coupler at the lower left, and the metal 1/2" to 3/8" reducers at the top right for connecting the galley sink faucet hoses.

The red handled 1/4 turn valve is the water heater bypass - in current position it separates the cold at bottom from the hot at top. Turned vertical, it will mix hot and cold lines for winterizing and bypassing the water heater.

In addition to the water tank inlet near the Sharkbite, the cold has five 1/2" MPT nipples, one for the city inlet, the other four for fixtures/components. The hot side also has its four nipples for fixtures/components.

Also note at the top left, the two elbows with threaded ends. Those go into the hot water heater. Checking the heater installation instructions, they said nothing about a specific type of material, for heat resistance or something, and I knew from my past home stuff that CPVC was designed early on for hot water accommodation where PVC wasn't. So I gave it a try. But I did need to cut a notch out of the bread board cleat so I could spin the upper elbow..



Now to get the manifold to stand up right, I pursued the completion of copper. Now I'm not the best copper sweater. But I do okay, I guess. Some of these guys could have used just enough solder to seal the joint with a nice pretty little silver ring around the joint. Lil' Queeny got me! That's what they make emery cloth and steel wool for. Also I knew this might happen, so I purposely put the visible joint under the copper mounting strap!



I checked all the fixture/component ends and bought three lengths of quick connect "under cabinet braided hose connectors", a 12", a 20" and a 30", then test fit their lengths to all the portions prior to buying my final selections. Also, I found a neat hose with shut-off valve, 1/2" FIP on one end and a Sharkbite at the other (for the bathroom pipe stubs still to come). These I installed for the bathroom branches. The other branches? I chose against the cost and complexity of shut off valves for the other fixtures/components, except of course for the water heater branches, for when bypassing is used.

Then I got to work. Son-of-a-gun! I couldn't get those darn 1/2" FIP braided hoses to grab onto several of the 1/2" MPT nipple threads correctly! What the heck is going on? Did they invent a new thread when I wasn't looking? As it turned out, this manufacturing flaw was my problem.



Look at the end of that nipple. A short segment of un-threaded extension. That was just enough to prevent thread grab.

I got down in there with the Dremel tool and a sanding cylinder, some emery cloth to finalize, and made it work.



There was a bit of cleanup needed on several others, to make a smooth surface for the hose's internal rubber seal to seat.



The new city water inlet check valve nipple was one of the worst offenders and I broke the plastic c-clip holding it to the housing. I ran down to the locksmith to get a little metal clip (similar in function as those clips that hold your locks in the access doors).

I have a better picture of the whole system coming up. For now look at the hanging hoses outside the cabinet. Shut off valves with Sharkbites. Both valves leaked! In the off position. After several flushes! That dog don't hunt. They were taken back to the store. For now I just threw on some 1/2" caps to reserve the bathroom branches.



After fussing a bit and setting thread connections, several little leaks were controlled - including a hose barb near the water pump. Then I set about testing all the fixtures (this was by using the city water connection, no gravity fill going on yet - except to say the check valve in the water pump was working, so city water pressure had made its way to the exit port of the pump, but no further - just as advertised).

So first in line (at the left) are the capped bathroom branches.



Then left of the bypass valve are the hot and cold water heater branches. To the right of the valve are the galley sink branches, then the exterior spray port branches, and finally on the cold, the city water connection.

The clear plastic hose (bottom right) is the galley sink sprayer hose.

Here's the water heater connections, with shut off valves.



This view shows the back of the galley utility wall. At left, the city water connection. At right, the spray port connections. And below those, the galley sink sprayer pull-out hose. That will still need some attention for smooth operation. I may try and find a more flexible metal type hose (like on showers). I really dislike the stiffness of the plastic ones.



And this is a pretty good "step back" view.



So everything was working well. Time to test the water pump and gravity fill storage tank system.

I filled the tank only about four inches. So the upper vent and fill hose connections at the tank and fill station are still untested, but that will come. The lower connections (drain and water pick-up, and all through the pump system, filter, winterizing bypass, etc. are all good).

Here are two views showing access to that stuff. The space between the tank and wall is about 8-9".

This view shows the vented battery box and vent hose in the foreground. The smaller braided hose from the pump, looped to the copper pipe (not in view), the pump itself and three wire groups: battery red and black, pump red and white, and several wires into the loom which go to the vehicle connection. Also in view, the tank drain valve, and the clear anti-freeze pick-up tube for the winterization valve feature.



This view is more bird's eye and includes at the far end, the fresh water pick-up out of the tank, and nearer to your eye, the vent connection at the top of the tank.



I successfully tested system pressure and water heater operation for two days (leaving water heater burn off over night - don't want that run unattended until the camper is not in the garage). No leaks, water heater operation is flawless, so that completes gas checks too!

And that's the internals - the workings behind the scenes. The production going on behind what the audience sees. And how does it look from the stage? Well, I kind of like this view from the balcony.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
I did the following work quite some time ago. Yesterday I had planned to sweat the elbow onto this 1/2" copper line and the stub into the near cabinet - but the weather turned better than forecast, so we went outside instead.

This is the fresh water supply line from the holding tank, to the planned manifolds under the galley sink. There was no room to run it entirely behind cabinetry, so we had to make it pretty, like with the copper 1.5" grey water drain line elbows near the range/fridge.



Note its double use, as it also becomes a towel rod. The mounting brackets are placed for proper support, aesthetics and as prevention for a towel sliding over in front of the heater.

These are the pieces I worked with to make up the design.





And then stained "natural" (clear - for the blonde wood contrasting) and simply sprayed with a clear-coat poly-like paint, which was faster than waiting three days for three coats of brush-on. The pieces are not as "thick coated looking" as much of the rest of the interior poly treatment, but they're satisfactory.

Here in the fresh water cabinet, the braided hose comes off the pump and loops around to the copper line stub, attached with a Sharkbite connector. I've installed hose clamps since this photo was taken.



With a Sharkbite, I can leave the copper line stubbed just like this, allowing smaller holes in the cabinet faces than if a fitting were sweated on the end. And that also still allows easy piping removal, if needed in future, for cabinet disassembly (tank change, etc.)



Sliding parts into place.



Checking lengths and fit.



Here's the Sharkbite on the short stub side near the water heater.



Post Sharkbite, the material changes over to 1/2" CPVC, with the same outside diameter as the copper pipe. From here it will run into nearby manifolds built for cold and hot, which in turn will contain "shut-off valves" to each of the connections.

Five Cold Connections: City Water Input, Outside Sprayer Port, Galley Sink, Hot Water Heater Supply, and Bathroom line.

Four Hot Connections: Outside Sprayer Port, Galley Sink, Hot Water Heater Return, and Bathroom line.

But first, I should get this sweated.



Incidentally, the two bathroom lines will exit this cabinet area and run up the exterior door trim board nearest the counter. From there they go overhead (over the doorway) and into the bathroom, where they turn into some fancy stuff we won't talk about yet.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
So I mentioned in Chapter 13, Exterior the other day - while installing water hatches - that the gravity feed fill hatch was kind of a bear. That's because of the tight fit of the fill hose to the barb on the hatch.

I had to remove the clamp from the tank end, and pull the hose out to the bench, just to get the leverage for twisting the tight fit.



You may remember back ago, when the hose (based on the tank neck size) didn't exactly fit the two available barbs on the hatch, so I did some work on it to get it to fit. Cut off the smaller barb, and smoothed down the ridges on the larger barb. But once on...



I fed it back through the wall and through the hole in the wing.

Then with the hatch close to the wall surface I connected the vent tube that was just hanging out about here...



Trying not to mess up the butyl tape that was on the hatch flange by that time.

But then got it all pushed in and screwed down and fine adjusted.



Of course it was the tight fits, and tight quarters that made this a bit of a bugger. But then it was in, and time to cover with the heat shield I had built, because of the proximity to the heat source of the range.





Under the wing, the hoses continue back into the sidewall of the camper box, and a straight shot each to the fill and vent necks. There I connected the fill hose and clamped both of them down good.



I will suspend and fasten, at proper flow angles, the hoses under the wing, when I run propane lines so that each fit their best. And in future, I believe work can be done without the need to remove the range or the heat shield, just using access from the hatch area, and from under the wing.

Back at the hatch, I used all the screw holes. Hey! We live in a windy area!





Tomorrow I will join up with you all, probably in Finishes and Finishing, while addressing both our recent quick trip to Denver, and some metal ID tags for the camper and its systems, some of which are original, and some which are not.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
I had been working over in Chapter 9. Electrical. Was going to actually start installing light fixtures too, but just as I was about to get started, UPS brought me my battery box. Oh! Then I can move forward on that, and on the vehicle umbilical. Cool.

So I did. And I got a lot done too, but not completed. There were some other things going on, and a couple trips into town. One of which was for a hole saw, for the camper wall, for a size I didn't have, but now needed for the battery vent.

And while I was at the home center for the tool, I browsed the aisles for a solution on my fresh water drain where it exits the camper. This is how it looked and what I had put it to in the past.



I wanted this hose end fastened, and as flush as possible to the wall, because this is the left front of the camper, and has a potential to drag on the truck fender upon loading and unloading.

The valve is inside, so it just needs a flange or something here, just to seal the draining water from reentering the camper through the hole, or any rain water, etc.

After a few aisles I came across the "evaporative coolers" accessories display and found this overflow pipe kit. For those who don't know swamp coolers, it lets the reservoir of water in the bottom of the big cube hanging on your window, to flow outside should the float fail. The little tube is adjusted to proper height and fits the larger black plastic fitting in a tapered, tight fit. The tube's outside diameter just happened to be the exact same size as my drain tubing. Perfect!



I removed the tubing stub from the camper, cut it to proper length and assembled the new purposed "flange kit".



Then while I was cutting holes in the camper for the battery vent and umbilical connection, I also enlarged the hole for the water drain flange.





Of course I put primer on the fresh wood edge. But that doesn't mean I have to let it fully dry before moving forward!



Yeah. I think this works.



Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
Haven't worked on Fresh Water for quite some time, but soon going to install a fresh cold water copper supply line to the system manifold near the water heater.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
To finish up the current work on the fresh water system, I primed the bare wood areas, including the edges of the plywood holes, touched up some spots with the exterior OD Green deck paint, reinstalled the hoses and made their connections - and completed this little fresh water hose and vent hose divider (in the tiny hose compartment behind the stove/oven range).

To do so, I wrapped it in some aluminum flashing, cutting the piece to fit and hammering it to form around the wood, then stapled the back side securely. Then I ran Emery Cloth over the sharper edges and jags and smeared some automotive Blue RTV over those edges to prevent catching and tearing on the hoses as they slide in or out a little or rub against through vibration and camper movement.

I didn't get pictures of that process, but here's the end result.







Once the camper skin is on I'll reattach the hatch door and secure the slack hoses under the wing at the right slopes.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
I don't often cut holes in my new camper - but when I do, I prefer to see something like this instead of particle board or wafer board.



I had moved over to the fresh water gravity fill hatch area, and this is right behind the stove/oven range.

Range clearances allow 3/8" from the sides below the counter, and 2 7/16" to the rear below the counter. All my grey water pipes and such are installed to those minimums, but the flexible water fill hose, and to a lesser extend the stiffer vent hose, are at a slight angle to the range's rear corner and needed some bracing and shielding to force them to stay far enough away from the range.

So holes were drilled into the wing to allow the fill/vent hoses back up into the camper where they'll attach to the back of the hatch.

Then the holes were sort of elongated and angled in a way to allow the hoses to lay smoothly in their respective holes and attach freely without kinking or excessive pressures.

And during the process, note the extended length of the larger barb on the back of the hatch.



The smaller barb is for 1.25" hose while the larger is for 1.5". But it's been awhile since I bought my 1.25" hose. It was way too loose on the smaller barb, obviously I had the larger diameter hose right? The 1.5"? And if I cut off the smaller barb it would make attachment easier and allow the hose to bend sooner, making the tight spot easier to work in. Out came the hatch. Off came the excess barb!









Perfect! But the hose was too small to easily slide onto the larger barb. Oh sh!t!

Phone calls to the RV store discovered the removable connector part of the $31 hatch isn't sold separately. An extra barb in the non-locking hatch was still $18! The 1.5" hose was 10 feet for $26! No - this is a simple fix. Why spend more money?

The home center didn't have the right fixes. But as I thought about it all, the hose slid snugly, but easily onto the tank fitting. That fitting didn't have barbs. I walked the cut fitting over to the bench sander and sanded the outside diameter down to remove almost all of the barbs all the way around. Polished it up with the Emery cloth and the hose was still tight, but slid on and it worked. Whew!







During the process I custom built this 1/4" plywood divider to isolate the hoses from the back and side corner of the range. The divider will also receive a metal shield covering right at this corner. See it in the foreground.



From underneath, these hoses will be secured with a clamp system that takes up re-install slack, as well as retaining proper slope for good flow.



I also cut this 9/16" hole for galley base cabinet wiring (the overhead cabinet uses a different route for cables). This hole will hold the shore power 10 gauge cable, and three 16 gauge 12V wires so it didn't need to be real large. Here are pics from both sides.





Also during this work, I made a heat shield for the Fernco rubber connector on the grey water drain, just to give an extra measure of protection for this spot from the range.



I simple cut a piece from this aluminum sheathing roll and used the straight edge of my steel rule for a bending brake.







Then I pulled off the hatch and pulled out the fresh water tank's hoses to access all the drilled holes. The edges of the holes and all other bare wood pieces will get primer/paint and then it will all be put back together.

But before I break out the paint brush, I might wander around and drill some cabling/propane line holes - get them all primed up at once.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
This may be a large post today - at least lot of pictures.

Here lately I've been working on getting the great room enclosed, that is to say, doors and covers on the interior cabinetry in preparation to receive something like dinette cushions. But everything in order they say.

So I had to get the grey water system tested and verified functional. Check! (See recent grey water post)

Next - fresh water. I wanted the fresh tank and system installed before final wrap up of the covers on the freshwater cabinet, which is also the step-up cabinet to the cab-over bunk.

So once again I lifted out the tank, installed some 1/2" barbed fittings into the tank's 3/8" female pipe thread holes, connected some test hoses and did the leak test.







The tank was heavy to manipulate with about 25 gallons in the 40 gallon capacity, but all joints held nicely. Once again (as in the grey) I used this pipe dope with teflon that was recommended to me by an RV Tech in Fairbanks, AK. Worked well!



This is how I drained it after the test.





I shop-vac'ed the compartment...



Placed the tank...



And started planning, measuring and marking.







Here the step up bracing was inserted to align the wiring and gas line holes above the fresh water gravity fill hole. In this way I planned out how the various systems would fit together and how the holes drilled in the camper box sidewalls would set up.



And here is the water pump system that will mount into the space between the tank and the sidewall. It includes the pump, a sediment filter by Shurflo and a really cool, high quality brass bypass valve for winterizing chores.



I can't remember where I got the bypass kit. I've either had it around for a long time in my collection of stuff, or I bought it a couple years ago at a Camping World in Utah for installing in the TT. Either way, it is easy to turn and seems to be of long-life quality. Perfect for Lil' Queeny.

The pump I'm using is linked here... Shurflo Revolution 4008

You may have noticed in the picture the huge battery switch. I think that's going in my boat and the little one in the boat is coming in here. More on that later.

Having marked the hole placement I started the cut on the outside...



Then moved inside to complete for a nice cut in both surfaces.





You'll note the one at bottom for the tank drain. At top is a large for the fill hose and a small for the fill vent. Above the fill hose hole is another fairly large for the propane line. Propane connections and lines will run on the exterior, except at this spot where an unbroken line runs across the camper on the inside for protection.



With the holes cut for hoses, I directed my attentions toward mounting the pump system, keeping in mind both clearance from the nearby battery location and height, and ease of making hose connections as well as room to stick a hand for manipulating clamps and performing maintenance tasks like draining the tank or winterizing.



This is the drain valve I'm using. I've had this little unit laying around for years and finally have a use for it.



Ready for placement and marking.



Something like this.







From below.



From above.





Along the way I connected the rest of the hoses and installed the drain valve. The exterior points and the other ends of the gravity fill connection are not yet done but this cabinet is in essence complete.



And therefore, I could reassemble the cabinet.

Here you see the step-up bracing trusses in place ready for assembly, and the drain pipe from the kitchen ready to re-install into the two Fernco connectors.



And then with the brace and framing reassembled (this time with finish poly complete) you can see the real world fresh water system access as you'll find it in the field.







And while the propane line is not yet in, this next photo gives an idea of how the wiring/cables will run in this area.



So there are still remaining posts for much of the fresh water category. But this completes the fresh water in this cabinet for the most part. Now I can set in the cabinet covers and show that enclosure in a more completed and finished way.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
This photo below shows the original cut-out for the 120 Volt 15 Amp Electric Inlet for the camper. It was housed in a horizontal single gang box, (with accompanying holes in the siding), and a electricity ID label screwed directly above it. That hole is too wide for today's square and round style 30 Amp Inlets, which is what I'll be using. And you can see toward the top of the hole, this is where the galley grey water drain pipe runs, so there is limited space, not to mention a stove/oven-range right in there too! What to do?



After very close examination of available space and potential characteristics of the new part, I ordered a locking gravity-fill water hatch by Valterra.

Upon arrival, my up until now, un-seen rear view, (that is to say my view if its rear), proved it was a good choice for the spot!

You may note - on that previous picture - a horizontal pencil mark. That is the upper edge of the new cut out. The existing width is perfect. The new bottom edge is the top of the interior structural 2x2, just like on the other two water access hatches toward the rear of the camper, so as to keep that whole "visual" thing lined up good, but also to make it fit right.

Here's the new cutout. I still have the electrical label holes to deal with, but I bet I can find some sort of "potable water only" metal label to match the other hook-ups.



From the inside. I'll have to slightly notch the 2x2.



From here, the flexible 1.25" fill hose (and vent hose) will run through properly sized holes in the wing on the inboard side of the under-wing jack-grid (position noted by the carriage bolt head in the photo), then forward in a proper slope and back into the fresh water cabinet for a straight in shot to the water tank. And those exposed portions near the range will receive some sort of heat shield protection, even though there is 0" clearance required for the side and rear of the range.

And here is the outside view.



I could have combined the city and gravity fills behind one door. But that choice wouldn't have met my unique "placement" needs, and I kind of like the separation idea. Of course I will re-key all doors to better than what they are from the factory and all matching for just one key.

Dave_Pete
Explorer II
Explorer II
Yesterday the water heater came. I carried it to the shop and removed it from excellent packaging.

We found the best pricing at AdventureRV.net through Amazon and they gave it free shipping - Adventure net, not Amazon prime. At $289.84, it's one of the more expensive single item purchases so far for this camper. It has been very rewarding re-using so many portions from Lil' Queeny and the parts camper, and doing so makes those moments when we have to spend, much easier to accept.

We've always used pilot light heaters, until we bought our current travel trailer. The water heater in it has direct spark ignition and both electric 110V heating elements as well as the traditional propane heating method. We've found recovery time using propane is noticeably faster than using the electric setting, so when we ordered this heater we chose only the propane heat method, less expensive, and less to go wrong. But after having used the convenience of direct spark ignition, for the minimal extra cost, we just had to have that.

So here's the heater sitting on the bench.





Some of you may not have the opportunity to see a new heater up close, or may have your own, but haven't looked at it close, or maybe you know all about these things and just want to see how little I know, so here we go.

At the top is the pressure relief valve. They use standard release pressures, I assume, and if pressure rises too high inside, the valve will open to relieve it. These will typically just drip to release pressure, but can open to "spew" setting, or again so I assume. You'll find them on your home heater too. I use it to relieve pressure before opening the bottom drain plug, and I think working it keeps it from building up with crud and potentially failing.



Next to that is the exit vent for the hot gases as they heat the water. The water heater door has the grill in front of this vent.



Here's the gas valve. The gas line enters on the left side of the heater (while facing it from outside) and connects at the top. Then the valve controls the gas flow into the mixing tube below it. The valve will shut off flow when any number of unsafe or non-use conditions exist. This one is electronic as you can see. Traditionally they are opened and closed based on a signal from the generator tube assembling hanging out in the warmth of the pilot light. The pilot light goes out, the flow is cut off. Also, failed generator tubes can prevent a valve from flowing gas even if the pilot light is working correctly. But again, this one is electronic.



Also, above the valve you see a black rubber rectangle that includes a reset switch. If the water heats too high the sensor will trip the circuit and shut off the gas flow. When that happens you have to reset the button. If it happens consistently, you have a problem needing attention by someone smarter than me.

Down here at the end of the mixing tube, and at the opening of the gas flame heating area, is the direct spark ignition. It functions much like your BBQ grill ignitor, but looks to be much higher quality and it's controlled automatically.



At the very bottom is the drain plug, and like almost any of these, the drain plug includes the anode rod. The anode rod melts away over time; it's designed to do so. You want to keep an eye on it each time you drain the tank and replace it at some interval when the rod is some percentage gone. It melts away through electrolysis in the water, instead of other metal parts of your heater. You'll find anodes on boat engines too, where the drive unit sits down in the water.

So if this image has ever confused you...



perhaps it makes a little more sense now.

This is the electronic control box for the ignitor. I haven't yet read the instructions, but I believe it just mounts underneath the cabinet near the heater, and I believe there are just two other wires to connect to a simple on/off toggle switch to operate the heater.





Six gallons of water weighs about 50lbs. That's a lot of weight to be bouncing around, or shifting, up here so high above the center of gravity. So, I'll follow the instructions closely, but one thing I knew for certain, there's a 1.5" space between the bottom of the heater and the floor of the wing, that needs to be filled with a supporting spacer. I rolled the heater onto it's top and measured exactly what dimension of support shelf was needed. Because of the cylindrical shape and the nature of the styrofoam housing, this is all the spacer that would be touched, aproximately 6.5" by 18" (including the structural 2x2 and wall thickness).

So I cut two pieces of scrap 3/4" plywood, already primed for something else and then wasn't used, and set them into position.





Making a pencil mark, I removed the spacers and revealed where the boards lay over the wing seam from way back ago. I no longer feel the seam is a weak area of the camper, but it is a seam and I'll install the spacers in such a way as to strengthen the seam at the same time. I mean why not?



Then I slid the heater into place for test fitting.



2.25" of space behind the foam. Not a lot to work with, and yet I think it will be plenty, and will also put the bypass winterizing controls easier to access than probably even our paper plates!





I did glance at the instructions and noted that chocks are required at the heater's front and back, against the foam housing, to keep the heater from shifting. I think I will make the chocks part of the spacer boards, creating in essence a nice little cradle for the styrofoam housing, also giving it protection from under cabinet jabs.

So some of this "found space" will have a cradle chock, but still, there will be extra storage space for some particular longer and narrower item, perhaps a telescoping broom handle or something.



Again, here will be a chock on the front side, but much of this found space will provide a little more access for two fresh water manifolds, one serving five connections for cold water and the other serving four connections for hot water.



Lots of room considering the small spaces available in Lil' Queeny.