Road Conditions Alaska and Yukon

[exportman]

I'm heading South from having driven up through BC, Yukon and Alaska and now am between Whitehorse and Teslin heading South. Here is an update on some road conditions. First: Alaska. The Richardson from Valdez to Fairbanks is in very good shape. An occasional slowdown might be required if there has been a road patch but it really is a good road. The highway heading from Fairbanks to Denali and then on to Anchorage (Parks Hwy)is also mostly excellent. The Seward highway and the Sterling are also very good with a few areas of slowdown for patched pavement. The only problem we had was with the Glenallen highway, essentially from north of Anchorage to Tok was a disappointment with lots of broken pavement and periods of construction. I did this trip 13 years ago and the Glenallen was just as bad.Guess AK spends their road money on every other major highway but this one.From Tok to the US/Canadian border the drive had few if any problems. However, once we entered the Yukon, the misery began.

The roads have lots of broken pavement, frost heaves and construction. It seems that we would go through 10-12 miles of rough stuff and then it would smooth out and then go back to rough stuff and construction. When a new road surface is laid, it is graded and is a packed dirt before sealing.It is wet down to keep the dust away and clings to your vehicle. Faster moving drivers, especially those in pickups hauling a big 5th wheel spray the wet mud not only on their own vehicle but on others, too. All the way to Destruction Bay, it was on again off again crappy roads. From Destruction Bay to Whitehorse the same on again off again road problem existed. No matter when you wash your vehicle, the next day it is muddy.
The drive from Whitehorse to Jakes Corner where the road to Atlin turns off, the road was beautiful. In 2 days we will be heading to Teslin. Rumor is more construction.
Bottom line AK is doing a great job but YK just cant keep up with the repairs possibly because of manpower and equipment to move the project along quicker.

Our awesome trip isn't over as we have much more to see. Regardless of the road conditions, we will have fun. Please slow down.

[soren]

When it come to the Cassiar Highway, my favorite history is the town of Cassiar. It was built to service the mine in 1952, and became a ghost town forty years later.

Wiki has a brief overview of the town

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiar,_British_Columbia

There is also an active, and fascinating website operated by former residents:

http://www.cassiar.ca/home/home.htm

[joe_b_]

I too enjoy the Cassiar drive, more that the southern sections of the Alaska Hwy. For the most part when they paved the Cassiar, the kept the hills and curves following the original roadbed, . The Alaska Hwy was straightened, hills cut down, miles of it were re-routed and just made a bit too civilized. LOL So the Alcan is now about 30 miles shorter that it was originally.

Parts of the Cassiar were in place early on, but all the sections weren't connected until the early 70s, about the same time period as the Parks Hwy in Alaska was finished. You will still hear some Canadians refer to the southern part of the Cassiar as the Dease Lake Hwy, and a couple of other names. In the past I have seen Murray refer to it by a name other than the Cassiar. He used to work as a miner in the large Grand Duc mine out of Stewart. You go out the road through Hyder and the road goes back into BC, where the Grand Duc is located.

During the building of the Alaska Hwy, which was constructed in sections, all at the same time, the section near Watson's Lake received their supplies and equipment via ocean barges, then river boats up the Stkine River to Telegraph Creek, trucked to Dease Lake and then lake boats to the north end of the lake near Watsons Lake.

The road to Stewart-Hyder went in first, then later the road was extended from Junction 37 to Dease Lake. The northern section was built to haul asbestos ore from the Cassiar mining district north to be shipped out of Skagway. The last section built was between Dease Lake and the Cassiar mining district to be able to ship ore out of the Stewart area.
The completion of the Cassiar Hwy effectively ended the building of the railroad which was being built a few miles to the east of the current highway running from Kitwanga Junction north to Dease Lake. When construction was stopped by a change of governments in Ottawa, most of the roadbed was finished and a few bridges were in place. One summer I worked as a ferry pilot flying aircraft from the lower 48 to Alaska. For planes I picked up on the west coast, I often would follow the railroad bed to about Dease Lake, then head on north to Atlin in northern BC, then to Whitehorse and on to Alaska.
This may be more history than some are interested in reading. LOL

[exportman]

Now on the Cassiar hwy heading south. Cell and internet service is poor. Update on the road from Whitehorse to Watson lake with few exceptions was OK.
The road to Atlin beginning at Jakes Corner between Whithorsevand Tesin is now fully paved and a nice drive.
The Cassiar is a delight to drive now that it has been paved. Those of us that drove it in the past and ate dust and had rocks kicked up at us by speeders is a thing of the past.

[soren]

sue.t wrote:
Yukon's government is saying if the US doesn't get back to contributing funding for the Shakwak section, then the only affordable option could be to leave it as a gravel highway again. The reason it was paved was because the US requested it so transport trucks could travel to Alaska easier.

Beaver Creek residents preferred the gravel highway because it could be maintained and weren't at all happy with the paving, which made it slower to drive into Whitehorse.

On our four trips up and down the highway, I was always stunned by the "requirement" of maintaining blacktop, or chipseal, on the road, especially from Tok to Destruction bay. It seems like we would get there just as the yearly rebuilding was wrapping up, and the northbound trip was pretty decent. A few months later, heading south, and it's a war zone, 20 MPH stretches of picking lines to avoid heaves, holes and long trenches. I can't imagine how many tens of millions have been wasted in a fruitless crusade of pretending that a blacktop road will last more than a few months. in some stretches?

[R__Walter]

I just drove today from Anchorage to Valdez and the Glen Hwy seemed fine.

[sue_t]

Yukon's government is saying if the US doesn't get back to contributing funding for the Shakwak section, then the only affordable option could be to leave it as a gravel highway again. The reason it was paved was because the US requested it so transport trucks could travel to Alaska easier.

Beaver Creek residents preferred the gravel highway because it could be maintained and weren't at all happy with the paving, which made it slower to drive into Whitehorse.

[PA12DRVR]

My post was not a slam on DOT&PF nor a critique of the spending on road repairs.
I've driven on Alaska's roads since the early '70's and universally, they are much better today than they've been before. Historically, and that is based on memory only, but memory that goes back to '74 for the relevant section, the first part of "Alaska road" West of the border has been worse than many parts of roads elsewhere in the state....for whatever reason.

I recently drove from Los Anchorage to Squarebanks on the "old road" through Glennallen, Delta, etc. then back on the Parks. Interestingly enough, although it still takes longer to drive the "old road", that time increment is due (based on 1 trip of course) to the longer length and, strangely enough, traffic, not to road conditions. Sometime over the past X years, they've really improved the conditions of the Richardson where one can go as fast as they want for many parts of that road.

There are parts of the Glenn (a few and relatively short) that going 40 mph or less wouldn't be a bad idea and (per the above) the road around Destruction Bay requires appropriate speed....but unless one is working, those roads deserve slow speeds for the scenery anyway IMNSHO.

[fanrgs]

PA12DRVR wrote:
On many of my trips, and remember, these are fading into the mists of time, the leg from the border to Tok or Northway or wherever, was often the slowest part of the trip.

That's probably why Alaska DOT&PF has that test section on the Alaska Highway, I think just before the Tetlin NWR visitor's center, that has piping for air circulation through the berm.

Incidentally, State spending just on highway repaving-reconstruction projects in Alaska has nearly doubled since 2006. The total US CPI inflation from 2006 to 2017 is about 18 percent. So, Alaska is not skimping on road repair spending.

When your road reconstruction season is 4-5 months in most of interior Alaska and frost heave occurs every year in some road sections, it's impossible to fix every mile of damaged pavement every year. So, just because the Glenn Highway may have been bad years ago and is bad now, it doesn't mean it hasn't been rebuilt between those years. In fact, the section immediately west of Glennallen was being reconstructed when we last drove it 4 years ago.

[PA12DRVR]

"In the good old days, 50 years ago, when the highway was gravel it could be graded every few months and smoothed out. Now, even my little Honda Fit will go for a flight now and then, and it isn't uncommon to see RVers with damaged hitches and axles."

It was almost an article of faith back in the olden times that the road would smooth out on the Canadian side: poorly maintained asphalt and/or tarred roads on the U.S. side vs. well graded gravel on the other side of the border.

On many of my trips, and remember, these are fading into the mists of time, the leg from the border to Tok or Northway or wherever, was often the slowest part of the trip.

....except for the part around Destruction Bay; that's always been bad even if only in a relative sense.

[sue_t]

Joe, Yukon's population is about 38,000 total, with about 27,000 of those living in the Whitehorse area.

Yukon's Premier recently visited Washington to press the US Government to reinstate its funding for the highway maintenance. No luck yet. It has been a few years since the US contributed to the maintenance and upgrades.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/yukon-premier-sandy-silver-washington

Climate change is affecting the highway more and more. Some sections of the highway in our area need to be upgraded every 2-3 years to deal with the frost heaves, potholes and cracks that open in the surface. The section between Destruction Bay and Beaver Creek is even worse due to ground conditions - lots of wetlands in that area. Beaver Creek is my hometown - I remember walking in the forest and sinking up to my thighs in the moss.

In the good old days, 50 years ago, when the highway was gravel it could be graded every few months and smoothed out. Now, even my little Honda Fit will go for a flight now and then, and it isn't uncommon to see RVers with damaged hitches and axles.

Read more about the Shakwak Project on this pdf: http://www.hpw.gov.yk.ca/pdf/shakwakprojectbrochure09.pdf

[soren]

Sounds a bit worse than our return trip in 2015. At that point Border City to Destruction bay was horrendous, but D bay to Whitehorse was fair. Joe B's comments are pretty much what we heard from locals in the Yukon. The highway from Whitehorse to AK. is there for the Americans, and the average Yukoner isn't affected at all by it's condition.

Over the years, Murray's blog has had some well written, fascinating information on how the highway has changed since it first was opened to the public, and how it continues to change every year. His posts on the roadhouses, and other rapidly disappearing roadside businesses, are a real eye opener.

[joe_b_]

A couple of years back, the US announced it was not renewing the SHAKWAK (sp) agreement with Canada. No idea what the acronym stands for. When the agreement was first signed, it was determined that the vast majority of vehicles running from Haines to Alaska were US owned and operated, much of it freight. So the Canadian government, agreed to do the actual maintenance of the Alaska Highway ifrom Haines north and the US agreed to pay for most of the maintenance. Keep in mind that very few Canadians actually use the Alaska Hwy, even today. Yukon only has a population of close to 50,000 people and most of those live in Whitehorse. So that is many miles/Ks of road for such a small population to pay for and , IMHO, Ottawa is about as interested in this part of Canada as D.C. Is interested in the roads of Alaska.
Time to put my soapbox back in the closet. Perhaps Sue or Murray has some info on whether or not the agreement was renewed

[exportman]

Further to this road condition report does anybody have any info on the Cassiar highway between Kitawanga BC and Watson Lake, YK? I understand that it is now fully paved. Are there any areas with dirt, gravel, mud? Thirteen years ago I had two windows cracked badly by fast driving pickups spraying rocks into my motor home. Hope things have changed as we want to drive it south this time. Thanks.