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 > Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

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FloridaRosebud

Melbourne

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Posted: 12/22/19 07:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

STBRetired wrote:

All joking about dragster engines aside, you should crank that engine over as soon as possible. But do a few things first. Pull all the spark plugs and get one of those USB or WiFi inspection cameras (about $15 online) and have a look into each cylinder to see what it looks like. A little bit of rust probably won't hurt anything. But if it looks crusty with big flakes of rust you could be in for big trouble. With light or no rust, just get a can of fogging oil spray from your local auto parts store and give a good shot into each cylinder. Let It sit for 30 minutes or so to soak in around the top ring, then try to crank it over with the plugs out. If you see heavy rust, dose the cylinders heavily with PBBlaster or similar and let it sit for a day or two. Do not crank it over. Use compressed air to blow the gunk out of the cylinder. Hit it with PBBlaster again and repeat the procedure. Only when you are no longer blowing out crud should you attempt to crank it over. You might want to try turning it with a ratchet on the crank pulley rather than stressing the starter if the engine is partially or fully seized.

Obviously it will need an oil change before you run it for any length of time. Once it is running, change the oil again after an hour or so of run time. Take the oil filter and cut it open. Pull out the filter element and unfold it on a table. Get a magnifying glass and look for signs of metal in the oil. Keep a close eye on your oil pressure while it is running. If it is lower than usual or drops suddenly, then shut it down right away and you will probably need to pull the pan to check for trashed bearings.


As an Ex-drag racer (too much of a money pit for me) this is excellent advice, not just for Fulltimin but for anyone who has let a motor sit for more than 6 months through winter and summer temps. Years ago I bought a 440 Chrysler just for the engine, as it had been sitting for about 18 months in Columbus, Ohio. What a mess the cylinders were when I tore it down to rebuild it. A couple of the rod bearings were questionable as well. Odometer only had about 40k miles on it. So you can never be too careful.

Al

STBRetired

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Posted: 12/22/19 07:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FloridaRosebud wrote:


As an Ex-drag racer (too much of a money pit for me) this is excellent advice, not just for Fulltimin but for anyone who has let a motor sit for more than 6 months through winter and summer temps. Years ago I bought a 440 Chrysler just for the engine, as it had been sitting for about 18 months in Columbus, Ohio. What a mess the cylinders were when I tore it down to rebuild it. A couple of the rod bearings were questionable as well. Odometer only had about 40k miles on it. So you can never be too careful.

Al

Al,
I'm the crew chief for a 2 car SuperComp team. I'm SO glad we have owners and sponsors that pay all the bills. We won the $5K payout race, several $1K races, and the championship for our sanctioning group and the team was still about $20K in the red before the money from our sponsors and owners. Last year we were over $60K in the red as we built the 632 and refreshed the 540. Next year we have a matched pair of 618s to refresh so will be another expensive year. Drag racing is definitely a money pit.

Fulltimin,
Hope you get lucky and there is not too much damage from sitting. Remember that you need the truck version of the 454, not the car version. Costs a bit more but is designed for torque, not peak horsepower. Not sure if there is a carburated version of the 496 available as a reman, but would be worth looking into. Bolts in the same, but more grunt.


1999 Newmar MACA 3796 F53 6.8L
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fulltimin

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Posted: 12/22/19 10:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bruce Brown wrote:

fulltimin wrote:

Bruce Brown wrote:

It might be minor work but it wouldn't be a minor expense.



I guess it depends on how you define minor. Reman engines for that year are available for less than 3 grand. It's a Chevy 454, so it's nothing exotic.

From my perspective, I don't think that is excessive. If we were talking a diesel for around 20 grand, that is a different issue.


Or...you could just treat the one you already own like it should have been treated and the expense would be, oh, I don't know...ZERO.

Maybe its just me but I don't consider $3k to be a minor expense. [emoticon]




It's all a matter of perspective. Compared to the other expenses occurred, a rebuild/reman, would be good to go for another 100,000 miles. Granted, 3K is not insignificant, but, compared to 20K for a diesel, it's a bargain.

This has 130k on the clock, but still runs well, (or it did when last inspected a couple years ago), so we'll see.

Thanks.


If you want to do something, you will find a way.
If you don't, you will find an excuse.

-------------------------------------------------

Good judgement comes from experience.
A lot of experience, comes from bad judgement.

fulltimin

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Posted: 12/22/19 10:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

STBRetired wrote:

All joking about dragster engines aside, you should crank that engine over as soon as possible. But do a few things first. Pull all the spark plugs and get one of those USB or WiFi inspection cameras (about $15 online) and have a look into each cylinder to see what it looks like. A little bit of rust probably won't hurt anything. But if it looks crusty with big flakes of rust you could be in for big trouble. With light or no rust, just get a can of fogging oil spray from your local auto parts store and give a good shot into each cylinder. Let It sit for 30 minutes or so to soak in around the top ring, then try to crank it over with the plugs out. If you see heavy rust, dose the cylinders heavily with PBBlaster or similar and let it sit for a day or two. Do not crank it over. Use compressed air to blow the gunk out of the cylinder. Hit it with PBBlaster again and repeat the procedure. Only when you are no longer blowing out crud should you attempt to crank it over. You might want to try turning it with a ratchet on the crank pulley rather than stressing the starter if the engine is partially or fully seized.

Obviously it will need an oil change before you run it for any length of time. Once it is running, change the oil again after an hour or so of run time. Take the oil filter and cut it open. Pull out the filter element and unfold it on a table. Get a magnifying glass and look for signs of metal in the oil. Keep a close eye on your oil pressure while it is running. If it is lower than usual or drops suddenly, then shut it down right away and you will probably need to pull the pan to check for trashed bearings.


STBRetired wrote:

FloridaRosebud wrote:


As an Ex-drag racer (too much of a money pit for me) this is excellent advice, not just for Fulltimin but for anyone who has let a motor sit for more than 6 months through winter and summer temps. Years ago I bought a 440 Chrysler just for the engine, as it had been sitting for about 18 months in Columbus, Ohio. What a mess the cylinders were when I tore it down to rebuild it. A couple of the rod bearings were questionable as well. Odometer only had about 40k miles on it. So you can never be too careful.

Al

Al,
I'm the crew chief for a 2 car SuperComp team. I'm SO glad we have owners and sponsors that pay all the bills. We won the $5K payout race, several $1K races, and the championship for our sanctioning group and the team was still about $20K in the red before the money from our sponsors and owners. Last year we were over $60K in the red as we built the 632 and refreshed the 540. Next year we have a matched pair of 618s to refresh so will be another expensive year. Drag racing is definitely a money pit.

Fulltimin,
Hope you get lucky and there is not too much damage from sitting. Remember that you need the truck version of the 454, not the car version. Costs a bit more but is designed for torque, not peak horsepower. Not sure if there is a carburated version of the 496 available as a reman, but would be worth looking into. Bolts in the same, but more grunt.




Thanks for all the advice. I ordered an inspection camera tonight. I'll take a look at the cylinders in the next few weeks and see what is going on in there.

I do need to replace the rear main seal, as it leaks, but it's a split seal, so I should be able to replace it by pulling the oil pan.

That will give me a chance to check the bearings while I have the pan down.

I am well aware of the rv/truck engine as compared to one that is not made for torque.

In all honesty, I never run this over 3000 rpm and never use the secondaries on the carb. Activating the secondaries only uses more gas, and adds a bunch of heat into the engine, with not enough results to warrant flooring the throttle.

Then again, that's just me. Of course, I have averaged between 8 and 10 mpg while running across the country, including running the generator to use the overhead air.

Dash air was not turned on, and the Onan used nearly a gallon per hour.

Hence the switch to an inverter generator rather than an Onan, aw well as saving a bunch of weight.

Thanks for all the info everyone. That's what the forum is all about. I appreciate the input! [emoticon]

Bruce Brown

Northern NY

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Posted: 12/23/19 04:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

fulltimin wrote:

Bruce Brown wrote:

fulltimin wrote:

Bruce Brown wrote:

It might be minor work but it wouldn't be a minor expense.



I guess it depends on how you define minor. Reman engines for that year are available for less than 3 grand. It's a Chevy 454, so it's nothing exotic.

From my perspective, I don't think that is excessive. If we were talking a diesel for around 20 grand, that is a different issue.


Or...you could just treat the one you already own like it should have been treated and the expense would be, oh, I don't know...ZERO.

Maybe its just me but I don't consider $3k to be a minor expense. [emoticon]




It's all a matter of perspective. Compared to the other expenses occurred, a rebuild/reman, would be good to go for another 100,000 miles. Granted, 3K is not insignificant, but, compared to 20K for a diesel, it's a bargain.

This has 130k on the clock, but still runs well, (or it did when last inspected a couple years ago), so we'll see.

Thanks.


The cost of a diesel rebuild is irrelevant, we're not discussing a diesel here. $3k is equal to 35% of your current expenses. Think about that perspective.

I'll also say if you have an extra $3k kicking around I'd be more than happy to give it a home. My youngest is getting married next summer, I'll take all the $$$ I can get! [emoticon]


There are 24 hours in every day - it all depends on how you choose to use them.
Bruce & Jill Brown
2008 Kountry Star Pusher 3910


fulltimin

Home is where we Park It.

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Posted: 12/23/19 07:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bruce Brown wrote:

fulltimin wrote:

Bruce Brown wrote:

fulltimin wrote:

Bruce Brown wrote:

It might be minor work but it wouldn't be a minor expense.



I guess it depends on how you define minor. Reman engines for that year are available for less than 3 grand. It's a Chevy 454, so it's nothing exotic.

From my perspective, I don't think that is excessive. If we were talking a diesel for around 20 grand, that is a different issue.


Or...you could just treat the one you already own like it should have been treated and the expense would be, oh, I don't know...ZERO.

Maybe its just me but I don't consider $3k to be a minor expense. [emoticon]




It's all a matter of perspective. Compared to the other expenses occurred, a rebuild/reman, would be good to go for another 100,000 miles. Granted, 3K is not insignificant, but, compared to 20K for a diesel, it's a bargain.

This has 130k on the clock, but still runs well, (or it did when last inspected a couple years ago), so we'll see.

Thanks.


The cost of a diesel rebuild is irrelevant, we're not discussing a diesel here. $3k is equal to 35% of your current expenses. Think about that perspective.

I'll also say if you have an extra $3k kicking around I'd be more than happy to give it a home. My youngest is getting married next summer, I'll take all the $$$ I can get! [emoticon]



Good luck with the wedding. When our son got married 2 years ago, he and his bride spent nearly 10 grand, and they did nothing lavish.

Putting that into perspective - the wife has a sister, who's grand daughter is getting married next year. They are spending 10 grand just for the venue. I can't imagine what the rest of that bill is going to be.

I guess 20 - 50k is not out of the question for them.

On the other hand, my wife's cousin went to a judge, got married, invited about a dozen close family for a meal at a local restaurant, and spent a couple hundred on everything.

Just a matter of where one's priorities are.

PastorCharlie

NC

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Posted: 12/23/19 08:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Speaking of Priorities; first time marriages 51% fail within 5 years and second marriages have a 67-80% failure rate.

$10,000.00 - $50,000.00 is quite a yearly expense for those that fail. Not only are they bad marriages established upon a bad foundation but they are a bad financial investment.

Now if that cost is spread across 60 plus years ( my wife and I celebrated our 60th anniversary a couple weeks ago) then it is a much better investment considering it was built upon a much better foundation.

My congratulation to all those who enter marriage advisedly and with the moral commitment of respecting one another and keeping the marriage bond until death separates them.

fulltimin

Home is where we Park It.

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Posted: 12/24/19 07:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My scope is nearly here......



[image]

Bruce Brown

Northern NY

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Posted: 12/24/19 10:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

fulltimin wrote:


Good luck with the wedding. When our son got married 2 years ago, he and his bride spent nearly 10 grand, and they did nothing lavish.

Putting that into perspective - the wife has a sister, who's grand daughter is getting married next year. They are spending 10 grand just for the venue. I can't imagine what the rest of that bill is going to be.

I guess 20 - 50k is not out of the question for them.

On the other hand, my wife's cousin went to a judge, got married, invited about a dozen close family for a meal at a local restaurant, and spent a couple hundred on everything.

Just a matter of where one's priorities are.


Thanks. Our oldest daughter was married this September. Great party but nothing too crazy, except the cost! [emoticon]

The issue we had was the shear number of people, with over 275 invited. Big families and lots of friends on both sides. Every time we tried to trim the list down we ended up adding more people.

And keeping this on an RV topic, many of those there were friends we met while camping!

STBRetired

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Posted: 12/24/19 06:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Merry Christmas to all at the Por House.

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