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udidwht

Seattle

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Posted: 06/06/18 10:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Rice wrote:

udidwht wrote:

It is illegal on the basis that it wouldn't be the first time a city has stepped beyond what is legal.


But it's not illegal until a court says it's illegal. And the court has to have a basis for declaring something illegal. In the previous ordinance's case, it was because it was too vague to allow people to know with certainty how to comply with it, and it allowed cops to use their own judgment as to whether an activity violated it.


udidwht wrote:

Fact is an RV by California vehicle code definition is not 'Oversize'. A 50 ton crane would be but not an RV.


The problem with the previous ordinance was that it was a certain activity that was proscribed--using the vehicle as a living quarters--and two different people could be doing the exact same thing, like hauling around a bunch of possessions, and one would be violating the ordinance if he was using the vehicle with the possessions as a living quarters while the other wouldn't be violating the ordinance if he was just taking a bunch of stuff to Goodwill. That is the vagueness that didn't survive scrutiny.

The new ordinance has objective standards, and will therefore have a much better chance of surviving judicial scrutiny on the basis of vagueness.


Which is why the court ruled sleeping itself can not be the basis of action by the police. Many cities now are backing off enforcement due to the ruling.

Fact is by California vehicle code does not specify an RV as an over-sized vehicle. If it were you'd be required to follow oversize vehicle procedures when traveling roads/highways. Cities can not trump the California vehicle code. Any officer will refer to the California vehicle code. City ordinances can not trump it.

Many also are completely unaware that your RV in California is also exempt from open container law. So long as the alcohol is not up front. Your RV is also by definition a 'home' and officers can not search it unless they either have your permission and/or a warrant.

And if you conceal carry while traveling in RV (firearm) you are protected from unlawful conceal carry of a firearm. Your RV is by law your home. A car is not.

This is from your friendly retired California cop.

Rice

Wandering

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Posted: 06/07/18 10:15am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

udidwht wrote:

Fact is by California vehicle code does not specify an RV as an over-sized vehicle. If it were you'd be required to follow oversize vehicle procedures when traveling roads/highways. Cities can not trump the California vehicle code. Any officer will refer to the California vehicle code. City ordinances can not trump it.


I did a quick glance at the California Vehicle Code, and it doesn't talk about "oversized" vehicles--it talks about "overweight" vehicles. The city ordinances regulate parking of vehicles based on their physical size, not their weight, so there's no conflict between those ordinances and the California Vehicle Code, and the cities aren't trumping it.

udidwht

Seattle

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Posted: 06/07/18 03:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Rice wrote:

udidwht wrote:

Fact is by California vehicle code does not specify an RV as an over-sized vehicle. If it were you'd be required to follow oversize vehicle procedures when traveling roads/highways. Cities can not trump the California vehicle code. Any officer will refer to the California vehicle code. City ordinances can not trump it.


I did a quick glance at the California Vehicle Code, and it doesn't talk about "oversized" vehicles--it talks about "overweight" vehicles. The city ordinances regulate parking of vehicles based on their physical size, not their weight, so there's no conflict between those ordinances and the California Vehicle Code, and the cities aren't trumping it.


You'll need to look further it's there. An officer will always make his/her decision based on the CVC nothing else. A city ordinance must fall in line with the California vehicle code. There are no if and or buts about it. They are counting on 99.9% of people not knowing this. I have personally seen many people just send a check in the mail all for nothing simply because they did not wish to take the time to challenge it.

* This post was edited 06/07/18 03:38pm by udidwht *

Rice

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Posted: 06/07/18 04:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I looked again and still don't see any reference in the California Vehicle Code to "oversized" vehicles.

But I don't think the cities are trying to trump the Vehicle Code anyway. They're saying that certain sized vehicles can't park on their streets; they're not declaring what size vehicles can drive on roads, which I presume is what the Vehicle Code does.

udidwht

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Posted: 06/07/18 04:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Rice wrote:

I looked again and still don't see any reference in the California Vehicle Code to "oversized" vehicles.

But I don't think the cities are trying to trump the Vehicle Code anyway. They're saying that certain sized vehicles can't park on their streets; they're not declaring what size vehicles can drive on roads, which I presume is what the Vehicle Code does.


Cities can not differentiate and/or make distinctions between surface streets/road/s and/or highways. The California vehicle code encompasses them all and is considered the 'Bible' in terms of what to refer to when an officer has a need to know.

* This post was edited 06/09/18 12:44am by udidwht *

udidwht

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Posted: 06/09/18 05:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Rice wrote:

But San Diego, as one example, has an ordinance preventing RVs from parking overnight on city streets. So you might be able to sleep in your RV because the "no sleeping in vehicles" law was overruled, but in order to do that you'll have to have a place to park it. I would hope. Safety first, you know.


Parking lot will do. Vehicles can not be towed from a lot until:

1. Parking notice issued

2. 96 hours have passed

The only exception to this would be fire lane violation. That is from the California vehicle code 22658

It is also state law (California) that if an owner comes to find his vehicle being towed prior to the tow operator leaving the lot. They are required by law to return the vehicle to the owner unconditionally no questions asked. Not doing so is a misdemeanor. A fee of not more than one-half the cost of the regular tow fee can be charged. The regular towing charge may only be imposed after the vehicle has been removed from the property and is in transit.

Rice

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Posted: 06/09/18 10:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

udidwht wrote:

Parking lot will do. Vehicles can not be towed from a lot until:

1. Parking notice issued

2. 96 hours have passed

The only exception to this would be fire lane violation. That is from the California vehicle code 22658

That is simply not true. The Vehicle Code says that vehicles may be towed "under any of the following circumstances," and your 96 hours after a notice is issued is just one of them. The others are:

If appropriate signage is posted, or

If the vehicle can't safely be driven on the highways (and other conditions have been met), or

If the vehicle is on property that is improved by a single family dwelling.

Those "vehicles will be towed at owner's expense" signs are everywhere in California, and allow towing to take place immediately and without notice, contrary to what you claim.


udidwht wrote:

Cities can not differentiate and/or make distinctions between surface streets/road/s and/or highways. The California vehicle code encompasses them all and is considered the 'Bible' in terms of what to refer to when an officer has a need to know.

I hope the officer does a better job of reading the code than you did.

But I think you are misunderstanding my point, partly because you're (wrongly) getting hung up on the word "oversized." Cities aren't legislating what an oversized vehicle is, or attempting to re-define what is considered an oversized vehicle in the Vehicle Code (and note that the Vehicle Code doesn't actually use that term). The cities are just using that term as a shorthand to describe the vehicles that aren't allowed to park on streets during certain hours, whether they're RVs, commercial buses, or a big van used as a daily driver by a family of 10.

There simply isn't a conflict between the city ordinances and the California Vehicle Code.

Chum lee

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Posted: 06/09/18 01:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

udidwht wrote:

Chum lee wrote:

Mission Bay RV Resort (private) in San Diego is adjacent to the water and Mission Bay Park but not directly on the water. 2 week limit. Full hookups, a little pricey, (Good Sam discount) walk into Pacific Beach for shopping. Bicycles are a good idea.

Any of the State Parks i.e. San Elijo, Carlsbad, Doheny Beach are nice and on the beach. Reservations suggested.

See google maps for park layouts.

Just a general suggestion for the SoCal area. Do not plan on parking your RV on any public street overnight in beach areas, especially if you sleep in it. San Diego used to have a city ordinance prohibiting sleeping in ANY vehicle at any time. That may have changed recently due to public outcry. If you must, you can park overnight at some Amtrak/trolley stations, if appropriately sized spaces are available or at some Park and Ride lots but don't make a habit out if it.


Chum lee


That was ruled unconstitutional by the 9th circuit court in California here awhile back.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-la-homeless-legal-fees-20150819-story.html


Thanks for the update. I knew something was in the works legally but I didn't know the schedule. I have friends/family in the SoCal areas so when we visit, its always an issue finding a place to park a +30' 18,000lb. GVWR vehicle with out stirring the hornets nest.
Sometimes the highly restrictive CC&R's (which are everywhere) are worse than the law.

Chum lee

udidwht

Seattle

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Posted: 06/09/18 04:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Rice wrote:

udidwht wrote:

Parking lot will do. Vehicles can not be towed from a lot until:

1. Parking notice issued

2. 96 hours have passed

The only exception to this would be fire lane violation. That is from the California vehicle code 22658

That is simply not true. The Vehicle Code says that vehicles may be towed "under any of the following circumstances," and your 96 hours after a notice is issued is just one of them. The others are:

If appropriate signage is posted, or

If the vehicle can't safely be driven on the highways (and other conditions have been met), or

If the vehicle is on property that is improved by a single family dwelling.

Those "vehicles will be towed at owner's expense" signs are everywhere in California, and allow towing to take place immediately and without notice, contrary to what you claim.


udidwht wrote:

Cities can not differentiate and/or make distinctions between surface streets/road/s and/or highways. The California vehicle code encompasses them all and is considered the 'Bible' in terms of what to refer to when an officer has a need to know.

I hope the officer does a better job of reading the code than you did.

But I think you are misunderstanding my point, partly because you're (wrongly) getting hung up on the word "oversized." Cities aren't legislating what an oversized vehicle is, or attempting to re-define what is considered an oversized vehicle in the Vehicle Code (and note that the Vehicle Code doesn't actually use that term). The cities are just using that term as a shorthand to describe the vehicles that aren't allowed to park on streets during certain hours, whether they're RVs, commercial buses, or a big van used as a daily driver by a family of 10.

There simply isn't a conflict between the city ordinances and the California Vehicle Code.


You'll be very hard pressed to have anyone tow you until the allotted amount of time has passed. Your misinterpreting the code. It is simply illegal to tow a vehicle immediately and without notice (ex. fire-lane violation)

You'll also not likely ever encounter an officer on scene due to lots generally not being city property. Cities can not make use of the word 'Oversize' without defining what oversize is. This is where the CVC comes into play. Which is where your misunderstanding it. And yes it's in the CVC. How else do you think CHP & city officers officers deal with large oversized vehicles on roads/highways? They will always refer to the vehicle code.

City ordinances must fall in line with state law/s. In this case the California vehicle code. Officers are very limited when it comes to private property. Cities as well. Just because the city may have an ordinance doesn't mean the ordinance is legal. Hence the 9th circus ruling in California.

Yes I typed circus. The 9th has been long referred to as a circus.

* This post was edited 06/09/18 04:44pm by udidwht *

udidwht

Seattle

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Posted: 06/09/18 04:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Chum lee wrote:

udidwht wrote:

Chum lee wrote:

Mission Bay RV Resort (private) in San Diego is adjacent to the water and Mission Bay Park but not directly on the water. 2 week limit. Full hookups, a little pricey, (Good Sam discount) walk into Pacific Beach for shopping. Bicycles are a good idea.

Any of the State Parks i.e. San Elijo, Carlsbad, Doheny Beach are nice and on the beach. Reservations suggested.

See google maps for park layouts.

Just a general suggestion for the SoCal area. Do not plan on parking your RV on any public street overnight in beach areas, especially if you sleep in it. San Diego used to have a city ordinance prohibiting sleeping in ANY vehicle at any time. That may have changed recently due to public outcry. If you must, you can park overnight at some Amtrak/trolley stations, if appropriately sized spaces are available or at some Park and Ride lots but don't make a habit out if it.


Chum lee


That was ruled unconstitutional by the 9th circuit court in California here awhile back.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-la-homeless-legal-fees-20150819-story.html


Thanks for the update. I knew something was in the works legally but I didn't know the schedule. I have friends/family in the SoCal areas so when we visit, its always an issue finding a place to park a +30' 18,000lb. GVWR vehicle with out stirring the hornets nest.
Sometimes the highly restrictive CC&R's (which are everywhere) are worse than the law.

Chum lee


An RV is not a vehicle that can be easily towed like a car (hook and go). Lots are a plenty in California and most (if not all) businesses cite (parking notice) then wait 72-96 hours prior to attempting tow due to liability.

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